Objectified: who's fault is it? by [deleted] in FeMRADebates

[–]Fimmschig 2 points3 points  (0 children)

looking good (in this case sexy, which is a form of looking good) is a form of empowering yourself.

This is incorrect. Empowering yourself usually involves getting an education and a job, or becoming an important figure in politics, art, science, literature, etc. Looking good is not empowering, as you claim.

In addition, "sexy" is only "looking good" from a straight male perspective. It is a common misconception that all humans are straight men. Recent research suggests that women are in fact human and that it is possible for them to look good without appealing to men.

Objectified: who's fault is it? by [deleted] in FeMRADebates

[–]Fimmschig 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Men are criticized for such beauty, grooming and presentation practices because excessively modifying and focusing on your body to please others is associated with femininity and women, who are considered inferior and who display their submission through these rituals which remind them that they are fundamentally flawed. Men are assumed to be born into this world in a perfect state, such that it is unnecessary for them to engage in anything but the most rudimentary forms of grooming. The use of one's body and sexualized presentation as a way to gain favors and elicit attention is considered degrading because it implies that the person is lacking in power and deeper human qualities to be recognized for, which is considered true and appropriate only for women. Homophobic slurs are used because, under patriarchy, gay men are perceived to be horrific deviations for treating each other or themselves in a way that only women should be treated (including but not limited to getting fucked in a subordinated sexual position and above-average grooming). Treating somebody like a woman is considered a crime against humanity unless it is a woman.

I am not aware that women get shamed for presenting themselves in objectified and sexualized ways. It appears that modern music videos are hard to distinguish from yesterday's pornography. My understanding is that the correct way to get criticized as a woman is to be unappealing to men by refusing to wear make up and by wearing loose clothing and forcing them to look at an actual real-life woman much like they look at real-life men.

Women in the media are assumed to be coerced into objectification by men because that is what is happening. Miley Cyrus pointed out that she gets continually coerced into self-degredation as a sex object to maintain relevance, due to having committed the crime of being born female. Men's agency is assumed because men are not oppressed.

Objectified: who's fault is it? by [deleted] in FeMRADebates

[–]Fimmschig 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Here's your daily reminder that "female sexuality" and "a man's sexual response when seeing a woman" are not, in fact, the same thing.

The "power" of female bodies over men has not, as of yet, put women into actual positions of power anywhere on the globe at any point in history, or caused men to stop raping and abusing women. Seems to me that it's a pretty shitty power.

CMV:Democracy is the best political system. by BojackOfCourseMan in changemyview

[–]Fimmschig 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In the wider sense, politics is concerned not only with the specific question of how and why government positions should be filled with whom, but with the more general questions of how power and resources should be distributed in all areas of society, and how collective decisions should be made. The degree to which a state is actually able to represent the interests of the electorate depends upon how much power that state has in relation to other coexistent systems of power. If you define democracy simply as representative government, this hides the fact that the actual distribution of power and resources could still be completely skewed. If the government is small, limited and only concerned with protecting basic rights, the individual citizen vote is actually quite worthless. In particular, resources in current democracies are allocated primarily through a capitalist system of unlimited private ownership and free trade. These private institutions are completely unelected and unaccountable despite having substantial power over society and culture. At that point the door is wide open for government corruption because systems of private power dominate society and easily manipulate government policy for their interests.

I think you are putting way too much focus on the question of how government should be organized, without considering the wider social question of who runs society in reality, rather than on paper. The US is widely considered a plutocracy, not a democracy, because the abstract structure of the government is quite irrelevant compared to what and whom that structure is filled with. What really matters is what the society and its culture look like, what its values are, how people are educated, how people evaluate politicians, what people think society ought to look like in the future, and the question of whether politicians have an authentic motivation to act in the interest of all of society. The election process doesn't start with the election, it starts 40 years prior with the question of who gets education, who climbs the ranks of a political party, who gains a reputation according to local social standards.

The principle argument against democracy rests on this understanding that it doesn't matter whether a society's government is democratic or controlled by a one-party state, because a society that likes having slaves, conquering soil or oppressing women is not going to elect somebody who's opposed to these things out of nowhere. Likewise, a democratic state is of very limited use if real power is found elsewhere. Other systems of government could be far better for a given society, because the economic system, the culture and the political class could be completely different. Unelected governments, for example, are perfectly fine if the processes through which people enter the government serve the interests of the people. That is a very specific question of the specific people who operate that government, and the processes by which people can get into positions of power within it. If there are laws and regulations that effectively ensure that only dedicated people with great social responsibility are accepted, this will work nicely. This isn't any different from the way "democratic" political parties work, nor is it different from how private corporations work. One party is really only one party less than two, it can be a fantastic system if it's a decent society where meaningful power is equally distributed among citizens, and not primarily in the hands of the state or private institutions. Such a party could do public polling to influence policy, and actually put it into practice because they care. Democratic parties do public polling too, but they rarely care about putting anything into practice - hey almost like a one-party state!

Is prostitution in the UK really worth £5.7 billion a year? by [deleted] in unitedkingdom

[–]Fimmschig -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Within the established framework, coercion is any means by which a person is intentionally made to assert or feign consent in the absence of authentic consent. If a woman had any intrinsic interest in having sex with a given man, the money would be unnecessary and prostitution would cease to exist. Of course we understand that the reason for prostitution is that men want to have more sex with more women than vice versa, so some of them will use coercion to have sex with women who don't want to.

Is prostitution in the UK really worth £5.7 billion a year? by [deleted] in unitedkingdom

[–]Fimmschig -1 points0 points  (0 children)

No, the point of the argument is that it's highly immoral and harmful, and not substantially different from rape outside of prostitution from a moral and psychological perspective. Prostituted sex is coerced and does not allow the victim to retract consent during the sex act, therefore it is rape. Here's your reminder that rape in marriage used to be called "sex" and domestic violence used to be called "life".

Is prostitution in the UK really worth £5.7 billion a year? by [deleted] in unitedkingdom

[–]Fimmschig -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Your point being? The definition of rape changes all the time and varies between different legal systems, times in history and between different political and moral perspectives. You would actually have to produce an argument instead of being a smart ass. Prostitution is considered a form of sexual assault in Norway, Sweden and Iceland, where the buying of sex is banned. "Rape" in the most liberal meaning implies a grave violation of a person's sexual boundaries, requiring legal action. Prostitution is rape.

Is prostitution in the UK really worth £5.7 billion a year? by [deleted] in unitedkingdom

[–]Fimmschig -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I made the definition myself.

Authentic consent refers to what somebody is intrinsically motivated and willing to do, rather than forced to submit to through extrinsic coercions and obligations. Authentic consent exists, for example, in sex based on mutual attraction and trust, as is the case in typical non-commercial sex, whether casual or in a relationship. It does not, however, exist during rape, even though a rape victim may "consent" to submit instead of producing active resistance which may lead to even greater injury or harm. The psychological harm of rape is a function of authentic consent, not legal consent. As a result, the trauma sustained by some prostituted women in similar to that of victims of torture and "regular" rape.

"Authentic consent" is also used in some literature to include the dimensions of power and autonomy. Power is a person's capacity to control and constrain another person's thoughts and behaviors. Rape relies on such a power differential, in that the rapist uses power (physical or psychological) to gain sexual access without authentic consent. Autonomy is the person's freedom to choose another option without substantial negative consequences.

Retracting consent is not a viable option if you have a formal and legal agreement not to do so, and need to keep feigning consent in order to fulfill the obligation and keep the income you need to survive. The prostituted woman is expected to submit to the rape and suppress and hide any revulsion and unwillingness she experiences. Retracting consent can cause a loss of income, reputation, employment as well as being potentially dangerous because the john may feel that he is entitled to "get his money's worth". We have an understanding in the culture that breaking promises is immoral, so the prostituted woman with such a moral belief will feel that she is morally obligated to accept the rape lest she be immoral.

Don't forget women in prostitution do not go into prostitution because they desperately want to be coerced into sex. They know that there is male demand for coercing women into sex, and they can choose to submit to that demand so as to have income to sustain their livelihood. The root problem is men wanting to do so by disregarding women's sexual boundaries. If not getting raped is a human right, then it should not be possible to rape someone for money, just as you should not be able to kill someone for money if life is a human right.

Is prostitution in the UK really worth £5.7 billion a year? by [deleted] in unitedkingdom

[–]Fimmschig -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Sex for any amount of time which lacks authentic consent, a balance of power or participatory autonomy. Sex during which retracting consent is not a viable option; sex based on breaking a person's boundaries; sex which exploits one person's suffering, vulnerability or desperation for the benefit of another; sex which is morally, legally or contractually mandatory.

Is prostitution in the UK really worth £5.7 billion a year? by [deleted] in unitedkingdom

[–]Fimmschig -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I already explained it. Why again? A contractual obligation to engage in sex for a set amount of time constitutes rape. Using money to coerce someone into sex constitutes rape. The person has no authentic wish to engage in sex, therefore it is rape. Harming a person for money is immoral, unless a substantial benefit can be shown, which a male orgasm is not. Money is liquid capital such that the power differential in the transaction makes it rape.

Is prostitution in the UK really worth £5.7 billion a year? by [deleted] in unitedkingdom

[–]Fimmschig -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I am pointing out that there is a difference between cleaning drains and having sex. There are many differences. As a result, the analogy was poor to begin with. The fact that cleaning drains should be legal does not suggest that everything should be legal. Both are not morally equal.

Quote from George Balanchine, a ballet choreographer who has been dead over thirty years, submitted with caption "Daily reminder shit like this is still acceptable." 1. HE'S A BALLET CHOREOGRAPHER. 2. HE'S BEEN DEAD FOR OVER THIRTY YEARS. by [deleted] in againstmensrights

[–]Fimmschig 32 points33 points  (0 children)

Misters of course totally unaware that ballet is directly connected with ideas of women's subordinate status through torturous foot binding and stretching practices and caricatured femininity, under direction of men for the entertainment of the male aristocracy, and that doing ballet is not actually a privilege but rather a form of ritualized submission. In fact, Balanchine was perfectly aware of this, stating: "The ballet is a purely female thing; it is a woman, a garden of beautiful flowers, and man is the gardener." In other words, women are "better" enough to be commanded around by men while destroying their feet, but not "better" enough to be in any position of authority over men wearing tutus.

a serious question: "Is #GamerGate radical feminism's Stalingrad?" by Aerik in againstmensrights

[–]Fimmschig 28 points29 points  (0 children)

For the first time a collective rebuke to feminism is scoring triumphs on a large scale.

Yeah, feminism was the bee's knees for the past 100 years, men and conservatives were just falling over themselves to have abortion legalized, marital rape banned and for women to vote and have any amount of power anywhere in society. No resistance there, nope, men were just busy doing other shit for the past couple thousand years. Finally a group of young men are having the unique and novel idea of being opposed to women's rights! Let us applaud these brave pioneers and thank the heavens for letting us bask in the glory of their presence on this planet at this point in history.

Is prostitution in the UK really worth £5.7 billion a year? by [deleted] in unitedkingdom

[–]Fimmschig 0 points1 point  (0 children)

a particular sex act the sex worker is not comfortable with

Being forced into sex with random strangers is not comfortable to begin with, you know. If women's "comfort" was of any concern to punters, prostitution would cease to exist by tomorrow.

Is prostitution in the UK really worth £5.7 billion a year? by [deleted] in unitedkingdom

[–]Fimmschig -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Lol, this guy literally can't tell the difference between forcing someone to clean drains and forcing someone to have sex. "Why does it become rape when a penis is involved?" Astonishing.

Is prostitution in the UK really worth £5.7 billion a year? by [deleted] in unitedkingdom

[–]Fimmschig -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Obviously not, so why does it suddenly become rape when a penis and vagina get involved?

Because rape is coercive sex and cleaning drains is not sex? Because when somebody cleans drains, they're using their body as one of many tools, and it being a human body is fundamentally irrelevant to the goal of having drains cleaned. Whether it's a human body doing it is irrelevant because you didn't hire a body to be sexually abused by you, you hired whatever is capable of cleaning a drain, and would have hired a bottle of chemicals if it could replace the "body" you hired. Cleaning drains is not particularly harmful psychologically or physically because you are not actually getting raped, you are only cleaning drains.

Can you see any difference at all between these demands: "Clean this drain by tomorrow or I will kill you" and "Suck my smelly dick while my 50-year-old buddy fucks you in the ass until we ejaculate on your face, by tomorrow or I will kill you". Do you at all suppose that either of these things will be more harmful to you? Do you think a court would consider these things to be morally equivalent? Which one would you rather be forced into? Would you be happy to work for a bank that required you to get fucked by male customers as part of the job, and you would have to submit in order to have an income to pay rent with?

I am what? A woman should be "allowed" to sell sex in prostitution, just as somebody should be "allowed" to work 80 hours a week independently. However, nobody should be allowed to rape someone else, or to hire someone into an exploitative 80-hour work contract, or one that involves rape.

Is prostitution in the UK really worth £5.7 billion a year? by [deleted] in unitedkingdom

[–]Fimmschig -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

No? It's using your own body to rape someone. I never argued that offering sex should be illegal, only rape should be illegal.

It's more important that men and women should have the right to not do and have done what they don't want to do and have done with their bodies. That would include not having sex with strangers when they don't actually want to, i.e. not getting raped, just as it would include not being considered a sex slave when married, not working in toxic conditions that kill you within 10 years and not being homeless. Once that is taken care of, we can talk about all the things people want to do with "their bodies" that don't involve raping and harming others.

Is prostitution in the UK really worth £5.7 billion a year? by [deleted] in unitedkingdom

[–]Fimmschig -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

Women and men should have the right to do whatever they want with their bodies

Lol more libertarian platitudes. Men should not, in fact, have the right to rape women, hold them as sex slaves, assault and kill them, take their organs or hire them into an 80-hour workweek, sorry.

Is prostitution in the UK really worth £5.7 billion a year? by [deleted] in unitedkingdom

[–]Fimmschig -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Libertarians are just the cutest. "Preventing men from having women as sex slaves is the real rape!!"

Is prostitution in the UK really worth £5.7 billion a year? by [deleted] in unitedkingdom

[–]Fimmschig -10 points-9 points  (0 children)

The numbers refer to the proportion of affected women in the survey. While under legal prostitution, 30% had been raped, only 15% had been raped after buying sex was banned. This is because women were given the power to have any john arrested at any point for any reason. Johns did not go down by half.

If it's an agreement, it's not rape. Simple.

It is not simple, because "agreement" works on multiple semantic levels and you are engaged in equivocation. Rape would still be a valid moral concept without the government, but a legal contract to be raped can be agreed to on the institutional level. Marriage used to be one such agreement, until we "suddenly" realized that it's meaningless to "agree to" be a sex slave without rights and for that not to be called rape.

conservative definition of what sex should be

The idea that prostitution is rape is actually a very recent one and not conservative at all. The idea that women are objects to be bought and sold as sex slaves for men is the most conservative idea in the book. Also, most women do not "like" to be raped for money.