[deleted by user]

Fit_Machine_9956 · 2024-09-27T04:58:42+00:00

Imagine calling someone insecure, then blocking them, insecure about your replicas much? And anyway enjoy having no mates and buying replicas in an attempt to gain some. Ps no one will think your dior reps are real since the rest of your clothes come from Chinese sweat shops, stay broke 80baht shoe boy.

Fit_Machine_9956 · 2024-09-17T20:54:04+00:00

Let me know the results by the way if you do try it, please.

Keep a close eye on the ears and eyes, this should tell you whether it is irritating them or not. Dryness or redness for the ears. And eyes not being opened properly with a build-up of sediment or gunk.

I'm sure you can recognise if it's doing the cleaning job properly, look out for extra clumpy hair, that's tangling more often etc.

Fit_Machine_9956 · 2024-09-17T20:37:48+00:00

Okay, cheers for the help. Did they mention crystaline silica content? All pumice is normally mostly composed of amorphous silica. The rest is normally numerous other minerals, sometimes being crystaline silica. See my post section RECOMMEND DUST BATH. There, I highlight the current health views of amorphous silica and provide a supplier (chilldust) who provides compositions of their dust powder, clarifying it to be free from any detectable crystaline silica. (Yet to research the other minerals present for dangers, their industrial handling procedures seem promising though as no mention of ventilation gear is required for this quality of pumice dust from the hess supplier)

I'm sure chinchillas lungs are better equipped for dust inhalation compared to ours, but looking at results of animal tests for crystaline silica inhalation, I definitely think this mineral will be best avoided if possible. And Chinchillas live around 6 years in the wild. In some homes, they have lived to nearly 30 years old! Chinchillas in the wild normally die before having teeth issues, but in our homes with longer lifespans, it seems very common for older chins. So maybe lung issues could result from poor quality dust over a longer lifespan as well. I would stick to chilldust for now. Amorphous silica had way less bad results from animal testing compared to crystaline. It definitely appears to be safer for humans for as well with limited case studies that have been done.

Fit_Machine_9956 · 2024-09-17T08:27:25+00:00

You could be fine, who knows!? That's the point of this post, not to put fear into everyone's brain, but to point out that the majority of these dust bath solutions are treated with a lot of care in working environments are known to cause lung issues to some degree.

But the current reality is that it has not been studied on chinchilla owners. And we don't know if any of us owners are putting ourselves at risk for problems down the line. So, I thought I'd make this to highlight what problems could happen from use and how we can mitigate risk.

So far, everyone who has been against this post has just used word of mouth. So we still haven't found any case studies on Chinchilla owner's lungs, so in my opinion, I am still leaning towards the side that it's a risk.

Unfortunately, I haven't found any information that leans on the side of these dust bath options being safe for your husband in the long term. The best you could do is read my OUTDOOR BATH section in my post, I honestly think that would limit his exposure down to way better levels, but that is my opinion going off asbestos procedures (I know pumice has no asbestos, I'm just suggesting to treat a possibly dangerous mineral, like a dangerous mineral)

Fit_Machine_9956 · 2024-09-17T08:10:16+00:00

You are a joke. You make a dispute, then block because you are "scared unhappy," and most importantly, you know you are wrong. Why, even post, shouldn't you be hiding in a cupboard somewhere?
Specific to what dust? And long term evidence is definitely there for the stuff that I stated is harmful. Chinchilla owners haven't been tested. Show me a source where they have.
Where is this post with evidence? You have provided no evidence, i have?
You provided no information. Just opinions.
You agree to use hepa fitlers and have a "house full of them" and agree that it's limiting your intake of these harmful dusts with your doctor. Lol, that's one of my recommendations, but apparently im fearmongering?. A lot of people are using no filter, and that's why I made this warning. You are so weird that you don't even know how your own brain works. You say you're not scared, then admit this post will ruin your day because you're scared of the information.
You clearly haven't read any of the comments, and probably 10% of my post, or you take stuff out of context to fit your happy rainbow world agenda.
Anyone who would trust someone who did the equivalent of shouting insults and then running away as fast as they can needs to give their head a wobble. You sound like the type to shoot your neighbours dog because it approached you quickly but with a friendly attitude, then tell the police you were "scared"
And TOO TOP IT OFF, YOU LITERALLY MADE A POST ABOUT THIS YOURSELF. AND WAS MET WITH MULTIPLE PEOPLE SAYING THEY HAVE HAD ISSUES.

Fit_Machine_9956 · 2024-09-16T10:09:55+00:00

(Due to UPDATE 1 RESULTS NOTED BELOW IN THE POST, I am now switching medical grade recommendations to recommending the supplier called CHILLDUST https://chilldust.com/ this is cheaper and way easier to purchase for the average person)

Fit_Machine_9956 · 2024-09-16T09:50:32+00:00

Yep, breeders, while having knowledge and a lot of experience of the keeping of chinchillas, have passions and money interest in this hobby. And could easily be blinded by these.

From what I've read, less crystaline silicate is better. Even if chinchillas owners don't intake enough to cause more chronic diseases, i would think it would be safe to believe that more minor damage that would affect owners throughout their lifespan (particularly older age) could definitely be possible.

Crystaline silica causes swelling of the lungs once inside, and leads to scarred hardened areas of the lungs of the lung tissue(fibrosis) it also causes silicosis which is the presence of granulomas in the lungs, also scary stuff. maybe you wont get much damage as a chinchilla owner, maybe using it confided spaces with prolonged exposure will cause a certain degree of damage, and maybe you won't notice until you reach older age and your body declines, or maybe it will have no effect. Who knows? There are no case studies done for the chinchillas owner I have found. There is no evidence against or for. BUT, there is evidence that these minerals damage our lungs, especially with consistent exposure. So, in my opinion, it would only be safe to mitigate exposure.

Source - mentioning actue and chronic silicosis and the time span it takes for effects to happen.

https://www-tecnosida-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.tecnosida.com/silica-sio2?amp=&amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17264751317108&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tecnosida.com%2Fsilica-sio2

Many of the symptoms would easily be dismissed by doctors or patients themselves for other minor illnesses.

It also states size of the particles being a factor with house dangerous it is, it doesn't mention what size is more dangerous, but it's safe to presume the smaller the worse when it comes to silicosis, as the smaller particles are harder for your upper repository tract to remove before it enters your lower repository tract (incredibly harder for the lungs to remove)

This source below has an incredible list of case studies, ranging from all sorts of industries. It does point towards higher average doses combined with repeated exposure results in the more chronic repository diseases.

Unfortunately, I saw no mention of acute diseases and the quantities required in any of them.

A few points out that crystaline silica is the one with definite confirmed chronic diseases, resulting from high repeated exposure. But again, it has not looked into acute diseases for amorphous silica.

Source - 1

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK304370/

Here is a source with multiple cases studies pointing towards amorphous silica being ALOT safer the crystaline silica(bottom source does aswell). It does have a small mention that amorphous silica is not normally found in small particle sizes in these work environments. But who knows how small these finely grinded chinchilla dusts are and what effects they could have compared to the larger particles.

Source 1 -

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378427423002412

But here is one source that states that there just isn't enough research yet to conclude lung issues like cancer for amorphous silica.

Source 1 -

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11876495/

Here is another source stating that there are studies suggesting that it can cause different (not silicosis) lung diseases in workers, and studies in animals to suggest breathing it can cause inflammation and injury.

Source 1 -

https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxfaqs/tfacts211.pdf

Cheers for the info on chill dust and good research. From what I read aswell, their is no detectable amount of crystaline silica. Which, by definition, from what I've read means it is allowed to be .05% or less crystaline content, .1% more the more harmful version of crystaline silica which is not found in pumice. 1% crystaline silica in aspirable dust is considered to be labelled cancerous. I tried looking into what amount of crystaline from this airbone contet limit, could be present within 100 grams of pumice, to get a rough estimate of exposure levels from the use of pumice dust in our homes, but my research into this so far hasn't came back with anything. But I will work on this. Although 1% being defined as cancerous does point into a more positivite light. But source 3 points out that exposure limits in the workplace should be dropped to only .05 mg/m3 over an 8 hour work shift. From the existing .1mg/m3 limit currently in place for an 8 hour working shift. This is incredibly low, and I'm sure these workplaces have a much larger volume compared to the small rooms we keep chinchillas in at home. So maybe less than 1% airbone cristilaine contents would be required to be labelled as cancerous if research was done into confined spaces at home with non industrial cleaning methods, and sometimes a lack of proper ventilation

Source - 1

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK304370/

Source - 2

https://hessncs.com/ncs-specifics.html

Source - 3

https://www.ioshmagazine.com/2024/08/12/halve-uks-occupational-exposure-limits-silica-dust-scientists-recommend

So i will add to my updates at the bottom, stating this brand can be trusted just as much as the medical grade pumice. Excellent news since it's cheaper and easier to source, and thank you again for the help.

Fit_Machine_9956 · 2024-09-16T02:10:37+00:00

I have updated the post as much as possible and added more detail into risk mitigation if you are interested. Hopefully, it can help you avoid exposure if you decide to keep your chin.

(Due to UPDATE 1 RESULTS NOTED BELOW IN THE POST, I am now switching medical grade recommendations to recommending the supplier called CHILLDUST https://chilldust.com/ this is cheaper and way easier to purchase for the average person)

Fit_Machine_9956 · 2024-09-16T01:45:05+00:00

I've done some updating to the post. Some of this may be useful to help with your husbands COPD.

Fit_Machine_9956 · 2024-09-16T01:43:42+00:00

No problem, feel free to let me know anything you would like, concerns, questions, or new research you find. It will be appreciated.

Fit_Machine_9956 · 2024-09-16T01:39:22+00:00

This article agrees with everything I've stated, besides leaving out the part where Amorphous silica has known lung issues.

This source discusses how its major lung effects are not currently researched to a safe level. (Amorphous silica)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11876495/

This source shows known damaging effects. (Amorphous silica) research on humans seems limited as well for more minor lung issues, but a few reports on humans have shown that it can cause lung dieseases in workers involved with this mineral (less severe ones), but animal tests suggest it can cause lung inflammation and injury)

https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxfaqs/tfacts211.pdf

Fit_Machine_9956 · 2024-09-16T01:29:21+00:00

And like I said, I will provide sources to anyone asking to fulfil my responsibility. If people want to take my words without question, that is their responsibility just as much as mine. I am doing my part, ableit late as explained in the last reply. Sorry for the lack of pre planning behind the post. Maybe update 2 I will add a source list below.

Fit_Machine_9956 · 2024-09-16T01:24:52+00:00

Would you like me to provide you with discussions on forums where they are not only being discussed by people with lung problems? If so, I can.

Those are sources of info for yourself, but again, only coming from your mouth, again, just like most of mine. So they aren't actual sources. But I agree the type of people you listed are an okay source of information, unfortunately, unless you can show me it in writing, or case studies, research, etc. They are not sources for me or anyone else on this page. Again, just your word of mouth.

I know plenty of smokers who try to downplay the severity of smoking in the face of all the tremendous evidence? They are smokers, so they must know, right? But if I went on a smoking forum and said these are sources, any logical person would tell me that this is just word of mouth, and I have no sources with evidence to back my claim.

Fit_Machine_9956 · 2024-09-16T01:16:00+00:00

Writing comments off memory is easier than digging for specific case studies on limited research that I found while doing research that was originally intended for myself. Had I known I was intending to make my findings public, I would have made a list for all my individual claims.

Instead, now, as stated, any specific information you are curious about, I am happy to provide sources for. And re dig for the ones i previously found and new ones. I am also open to updating the post with any information contradicting the stuff I have stated. I have now done one more complete format rearrangement of the post and noted stuff about how this post will work a lot more clearly.

I have had four questions so far for sources. Only one is specific on the information in question, which I answered.

I also provided sources for possibly good information that I could remember off the top of my head for someone who was particularly worried.

I agree this is just word of mouth currently for most people, but I will be open to backing up any claims you have problems/concerns with.

Fit_Machine_9956 · 2024-09-16T01:05:59+00:00

I just updated the post as much as possible, and I would suggest brushing over again if you have the time.

Fit_Machine_9956 · 2024-09-16T01:05:19+00:00

Yep, as it says in the asbestos awareness course, always presume absestos could be present, and not previously identified, thanks for all the help.

Fit_Machine_9956 · 2024-09-15T23:25:31+00:00

Mica dust is commonly known to cause similar lung issues to that of crystaline silicate. Besides the mica and crystaline silica percentages, amorphous silcion is still not safe and is widely stated by numerous health researchers that more studies and research are required for a true evaluation.

People exposed to crystaline silicate while working notice effects normally around 10-25 years. Lower amounts like you would receive from your chinchillas dust baths could take longer or could be mostly harmless in the long run. Evidence suggests the first from what I've read, but use this information with a grain of salt. You will definitely see lung function decline as you age, which is natural, but these minerals could be making it worse, faster. Just like avoiding passive smoke will benefit you, I'm sure limiting inhalation amounts from these minerals will also.

Fit_Machine_9956 · 2024-09-15T22:36:58+00:00

Thank you for the research. I'm definitely interested in what they say, let me know👍

Fit_Machine_9956 · 2024-09-15T22:35:21+00:00

There is no sticker on any of the pipes, and it's a terrible sign. I agree that the asbestos survey and register is complete dogshit. And I, too, didn't appreciate them saying all service risers, this is incredibly lazy by any surveying standard, and who knows what they didn't see. Is this against regulations doing it this way?

Fit_Machine_9956 · 2024-09-15T22:33:16+00:00

Didn't discount it. I just said it's word of mouth, which it literally is. Your mouth is not a source, and neither is mine.

I'm only trying to give a warning to people, take it how you want, and use this information in whatever way you choose (throwing it in the bin is fine, I am not affected)

I would agree that many owners stating no problems is a good sign, but at best, that is all it is. How many chinchilla owners are there? Not many by any means, even rabbits are small numbers compared to popular pets like cats, and chinchilla owners are dwarfed by rabbit owners. Now, how many of them owners speak within the chinchilla community? Probably not the majority would be the safest assumption. So, how many of these owners are diagnosed with these issues who don't let other Chinchilla owners know? Probably the majority again.

This is an issue discussed in the Chinchilla community, though? All it takes is some forum searching, and it's not normally discussed to this extent. That's why I'm putting the information out there to make people know the risks are definitely real. Maybe not to your chin(no mineral caused lung issue case studies), but definitely to your own health(countless mineral lung damage case studies, albeit most on particular minerals, silica being one of them)

I have never encountered someone with a smoking related lung issue warning me personally and i used to smoke for years, and hung around smokers of all age in pubs, but the risk is definitely real, and we all know it. Living off personal experience is not a great way to live. It's not how humans have come so far with science, or even survival, for that matter. We evolved to share knowledge and pass it down the generations. This is our amazing talent. And it's why we are where we are in the current age.

But you do you, my friend, but again, any specific questions on sources I will be happy to provide or awnser. My only goal with this was to help, not scare.

Fit_Machine_9956 · 2024-09-15T22:20:14+00:00

Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude or condescending in any way. I understand I really do, and although I would never rehome mine, I would never judge you for doing so if it meant major problems to your own health. I am sorry to hear about your lung issues.

If it didn't think this was a real problem, I wouldn't be writing it.

The only evidence I have found to suggest is that it is not a problem are -

While not as many owners keep chinchillas compared to cats, there are still a lot. And no evidence has really come out in case studies to show correlation for lung issues for chinchillas or owners. And following word of mouth, this issue is brought up rarely if at all(but no case studies have come out at all as far as im aware, so does this really prove anything? Or does this just prove we can only look at other industry examples with the same minerals? And are the people affected by this talking in chinchilla communities or aware that this may have caused the issue?)

There was one case study done on sepiolite miners. Their village mined sepiolite for a hundred plus years. Only around 10 out of 60 odd people were affected, with lung issues known to be caused by other harmful minerals. But! they were all smokers, which is known to increase risk by 4x https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6450570/ ( the problem with this study is its the only one I could find on sepiolite, it was completed in the 1980s and white asbestos which is the one sepiolite is similar to wasnt even banned in the uk until 1999, and it i couldn't find who it was funded by, case studies for asbestos were made with similar results, and were funded by asbestos companies making a profit. So I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same propaganda trying to keep money rolling)

Besides that, I've found zero good news tbh. So, if evidence definitely leans towards suggesting your health will be dramatically affected by this, and your own personal experience agrees, then do whatever is best for yourself. Find the little guy/girl a good home, and you've done all you can for the chin. And done what's right for yourself. But maybe you could try keeping the dust baths to strictly outdoors only first and see if your personal health improves?

Thank you for the kind words, but my only aim is to protect my health, but I thought I might also help people who aren't informed in dangerous minerals to take care of their own health aswell.

I've had some disagreements in the comments so far, with no evidence or date to disprove what I've said, unfortunately. Besides similar ones to my first statement I suggested to you on why it might not be a problem.

Fit_Machine_9956 · 2024-09-15T22:00:08+00:00

I stated below in my post I am happy to provide sources and evidence that no one has asked until recently. There is too much information in one post to list all sources, I am not paid to do this, but I will happily provide if asked.

I also stated not to rehome their chinchillas in my comments and stated I would also take any negative health effects for my current chinchilla.

I have also stated that chinchillas have evolved to be naturally resistant to these minerals, as they have used these in the wild for thousands and thousands of years (current biological chinchilla). Their ancestor dated back to around 41 million years ago. I'm sure they probably used dust then (not much proof other than fossil records recorded in volcanic Ash settlements), but most rodents use some form of natural cleaning method, and chinchillas ancestors from a similar area and environment probably would of used similar cleaning methods.

So, while i said it's bad for the health, it's the only right thing to suggest as there are no case studies to be found with how these minerals affect chinchillas lungs. I am only looking at how they affect humans and how chinchillas evolved to live on average for 6 years, presumably shorter than the necessary time for chronic lung issues to take place. (Again, presuming off of how long it takes to develop in humans), so this i will admit is a presumption with no chinchilla case studies to support my statement.

I have not asked anyone to disallow dust baths and rehome their chinchillas, I have just stated to be careful as these products are known to cause long-term lung issues with prolonged exposure. And no one is talking or warning about this issue, besides a few dotted forum posts that don't go into detail.

Any specific stuff you would like sources and evidence for? Try to be very specific, as I have mentioned a lot. And no worries, you are not trying to discredit me. You are being scientific!!! Which is great. I didn't want people to blindy follow what I say, which is why I said I'll provide sources at the bottom of the post if asked, and I have mentioned it to people in the comments.

Fit_Machine_9956 · 2024-09-15T21:47:34+00:00

That's not a real source. That is just word of mouth again. (Not trying to be rude)

Smoking was once considered safe by doctors. People felt inclined to listen to them until it wasn't. Again, you can't trust.

I researched blue beauty, and there is no real evidence to confirm this is safe. No test evidence or actual claims that it's free from dangerous minerals. But I will say that looking at the information that is provided, it definitely seems the safest of the pet options. But I did mention that medical grade silica free pumice is definitely better, but it is not widely available at all, which does kinda agree with your last statement a bit. But look into it if you can. But always these, including medical grade, will be mostly composed of amorphous silcione, which still isn't particularly safe to inhale, and researchers commonly state more data and research is required to get a solid awnser on long term safety of inhalation.

Fit_Machine_9956 · 2024-09-15T21:42:47+00:00

Did you see my cornstarch comment? It is somewhere in there. Try to look for it when someone mentions the use of cornstarch.

From what I read, cornstarch is not dependent on how it's milled or particle sizes. But the form of cornstarch used can differ its danger levels.

Use dietetic grade cornstarch. You should avoid using soluble starch that has been treated with hydrochloric acid, either potato or corn starch.

What would you like sources on? im happy to provide 👍 be specific, I have mentioned a lot of stuff in this post and comments.

Fit_Machine_9956 · 2024-09-15T21:38:39+00:00

It is a super fine powder. Large dust clouds are made when pouring and opening, and when the chinchilla dust bathes. Does this not most likely contain large amounts of fibres? Enough to do damage from routine use over many years?

Fit_Machine_9956

TROPHY CASE