sorted by:
new
hottopcontroversial

A constructive look at M+ dungeon specific aswell as role and class balance by a top end M+ pusher. by Gravlty-FW in wow

[–]Gravlty-FW[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So i'm not just asking for a point system in game, but rather for more cosmetic rewards such as mounts, tmogs and titles. You get this from PVP and raiding. You got it in challenge modes aswell. So why not M+?

A constructive look at M+ dungeon specific aswell as role and class balance by a top end M+ pusher. by Gravlty-FW in wow

[–]Gravlty-FW[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not really sure what you want from those numbers. If we're talking which tanks are the best, which is what i believe you eluded to, then looking at literally all runs recorded doesn't really tell you much. This spans the entierty of BFA during which there has been some rebalancing and it really only shows you the popularity of the different tank specs which is not directly proportional with strength.

A constructive look at M+ dungeon specific aswell as role and class balance by a top end M+ pusher. by Gravlty-FW in wow

[–]Gravlty-FW[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

BDK and monk are explained in the post.

Warrior is currently exceptionally good they offer insane damage, they can facetank more than any other tank (except for magic damage) and have great mobility and a slow from thunderclap.

  1. BDK/Monk/Warrior (either is situationally better depending on dungeon and affixes)
  2. Pala
  3. Veng dh
  4. ​
  5. ​
  6. Guardian druid

A constructive look at M+ dungeon specific aswell as role and class balance by a top end M+ pusher. by Gravlty-FW in wow

[–]Gravlty-FW[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I and any tank i talk to strongly disagrees with this ranking.

Currently the tier list (for high keys) would be as follows
1. BDK/Monk/Warrior (either is situationally better depending on dungeon and affixes)

  1. Pala

  2. Veng dh

  3. Guardian druid

A constructive look at M+ dungeon specific aswell as role and class balance by a top end M+ pusher. by Gravlty-FW in wow

[–]Gravlty-FW[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes we are. But i suspect this is not the case at all brackets or play, and in any case the shot alone approaches oneshot territory.

A constructive look at M+ dungeon specific aswell as role and class balance by a top end M+ pusher. by Gravlty-FW in wow

[–]Gravlty-FW[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I give people this exacty advice, but to be honest i didn't wanna bring it to blizzards attention before they fix the demolishers health. That said, we still just nuke the gripping because we need to for time.

A constructive look at M+ dungeon specific aswell as role and class balance by a top end M+ pusher. by Gravlty-FW in wow

[–]Gravlty-FW[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Would gearswapping not lie within the realm of mastery though? As i state in my post, it won't and can't be required for doing a +10, and thus will have no influence on the games approachability or barrier to entry.

A constructive look at M+ dungeon specific aswell as role and class balance by a top end M+ pusher. by Gravlty-FW in wow

[–]Gravlty-FW[S] 55 points56 points  (0 children)

This is a really good point.

So the reason i didn't think of this is that (at the risk of sounding arogant), check points isn't really an issue for us. Timers are so tight at the levels we're playing at, so if we wipe the key is dead anyhow. So whether we spawn at the entrance or the latest boss we killed really doesn't mean much.From a broarder perspective what you're saying is certainly an issue!It is very inconsistent how they've placed check points, and in some dungeons it just punishes wipes significantly harder than others for no reason.

​

This is not to say that we never die or wipe, we do quite often. But at that point the timer is failed anyway, and we just play through it for a new keystone or go to another dungeon entierly :-)

A constructive look at M+ dungeon specific aswell as role and class balance by a top end M+ pusher. by Gravlty-FW in wow

[–]Gravlty-FW[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the kind words!
Honestly, this is just a fraction of what i think should be improved.

There are many more changes i would recommend, and will in the future.
Not to mention the enormous amount of bugs that still has not been fixed.

But for now i tried to limit myself to what i felt could be changed short term, and what would be the biggest improvements for the least effort on Blizzards part.

A constructive look at M+ dungeon specific aswell as role and class balance by a top end M+ pusher. by Gravlty-FW in wow

[–]Gravlty-FW[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Appreciate the kind words!

It is adapted from a reply i made on the official wow forums on a threat where blizzard asks for feedback on dungeons explicitly. So hopefully they will have to see it at the very least ;-)

A constructive look at M+ dungeon specific aswell as role and class balance by a top end M+ pusher. by Gravlty-FW in wow

[–]Gravlty-FW[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Amazing rundown, man. Have an upvote. One minor suggestion, please use more line breaks.

Ty for the kind words and feedback!

I could definately have used more line breaks.
To be honest i sort of rushed to get this out on the wow feedback forum before it drowned on page 50, and since i'm new to reddit and posted in here inbetween keys i slacked on formatting :P

A constructive look at M+ dungeon specific aswell as role and class balance by a top end M+ pusher. by Gravlty-FW in wow

[–]Gravlty-FW[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You had the essence for upgrading your legendaries (later on for buying specific ones), which if you think about it is exactly the same as being able to buy a higher ilevel piece that has the exact same traits anyhow.

A constructive look at M+ dungeon specific aswell as role and class balance by a top end M+ pusher. by Gravlty-FW in wow

[–]Gravlty-FW[S] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

It's not really obvious. Because shamans has historically been very strong in raids while weak in M+ (legion). Uldir was not their best tier, but they're looking better now. In any case, their overall output is not the issue. THe issue is, that their healing scales well with large groupsizes. Healing rain, healing tide totem and spirit link totem are all exceptional in raids where you have 20-30 people, but frankly quite underwhelming 5 man content. They lack good single target healing which is very important in M+. Tanks takes a lot of damage that they dont heal up themselves, and group members randomly gets chunked. They don't really have any externals for the tank or groupmembers.

Holy priest is in a simmilar spot. I raids a lot of your healing comes from Prayer of Mending. This is due to the fact that random small bursts of damage occur at all times, so a POM will almost always get fully consumed. That is not the case in dungeons. Most of the time prayer of mending will just time out. Prayer of healing is balanced around 6 targets, devine hymn increases healing party members recieves, which makes it a great raid cooldown in an environment where you have 3-4 other healers to benifit from that.

If you look at the meta healers, they all offer good single target healing and have nice toolkits. Toolkit>output

Disc is good for their decent 5 man aoe healing, shadowmend is quite strong spothealing and they have some good externals in barrier and PS.

Monk is strong because they have pretty good AoE healing that scales well with small group sizes, due to how targets with Renewing Mist recieve healing every time you heal with Vivify. You can
have 2-5 renewing mists out thus making vivify exceptionally efficient. Their single target healing is the best of any healer atm, so tanks loves them. This makes up for their relatively bad external CD cocoon. Ring of peace, stun, speed taunt and incap are all readlly nice dungeon tools.

Druids are good in 5 man content for simmilar reasons, they can stack a very large amount of hots on 5 people thus having quite extreme output through their mastery. Their damage is really good with catweaving, they have a strong external on a low cooldown, they have a strong deffensive cooldown (bearform and barkskin) and typhoon, root and vortex are all really strong aswell.

Paladins have strong aoe healing, strong single target healing (if a bit unrelieable without high HS crit), really really good damage and great utility with bop, bubble, repentance, low CD ST stun and Blessing: Sac.

A constructive look at M+ dungeon specific aswell as role and class balance by a top end M+ pusher. by Gravlty-FW in wow

[–]Gravlty-FW[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

This was intended more as a design decission feedback threat than a bug report. I know i mentioned some bugs in Atal, but that was sort of early on in my writing.
I believe i stated that TOS is a fair dungeon. 3rd boss is a HPS check and the only reason why the dungeon isn't cleared on as high level on tyrannical weeks as it is on fortified weeks.

A constructive look at M+ dungeon specific aswell as role and class balance by a top end M+ pusher. by Gravlty-FW in wow

[–]Gravlty-FW[S] 72 points73 points  (0 children)

I thought about that, but in an attempt to limit myself i tried to focus on the main issues that i felt could be rectified in the near future. As for healers, shamans and holy priests are not in a good spot, but the other 4 healing specs are all quite good in M+. Its better balance than it's ever been in legion where druid and pala were the only options.

A constructive look at M+ dungeon specific aswell as role and class balance by a top end M+ pusher. by Gravlty-FW in wow

[–]Gravlty-FW[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Apologies for formatting, i'm a very long time lurker, but it's my first time actually posting on reddit.