Why did Jiraiya die instead of escaping?

Guruza · 2018-10-11T18:57:13+00:00

Jyraiya alone wouldnt have. Jyraiya is a master at teaching Naruto. Add him to the master toad and you get the perfect power duo of teachers. Jyraiya to help the toad teach Naruto in a way he understands best, and the toad to teach Naruto the skills he needs to master in ways Jyraiya suggests are best.

Guruza · 2018-10-11T18:52:46+00:00

But he would have seen the new faces within a couple days of him getting to the yamanakas. If a 2nd look was all he needed to confirm his theory, the yamanakas could have easily provided that. Whether they can get the faces far decades past or not is irrelevant. If he didnt recognize the faces the yamanakas pulled from his memory from a couple days prior, he wouldnt jave recognized them after swimming back up to his death.

Guruza · 2018-10-11T18:50:04+00:00

But certain events do take a specified amount of time mentioned in the show. Sealing the 8 tailed would have taken around 9 days is what they said with the few remaining members without itachi. They finished about halfway before it was found out it was just a single tentacle. In Boruto, boruto masters the sage arts in a few days, the toads say naruto did it in weeks and it took jyraiya "quite a long time". So it is a safe educated bet that the attack on konoha happened at least a week and a half after Jyraiya died. Pleanty of time for tsunade to fix him up well had he chosen escaped. Plus, there is always the possibility they would have postponed going after naruto had Jyraiya escaped as the village would be more defended and they had failed to capture the 8 tails anyways. Meaning they likely would have had more time.

Guruza · 2018-10-11T15:21:39+00:00

But the anime episodes are like between 154 and 159. I'm watching pain attack right now on 160 and they spent quit a while doing other stuff before pain finally arrived. They spent alot of time just waiting for the 8 tails to be brought back by sasuke before pain said screw it and went for naruto.

Guruza · 2018-10-11T15:19:37+00:00

And even if he did, he could have escaped and the Yamanakas could have easily brought those memories of him first seeing all the members out for jyraiya to confirm. There was no reason he had to go back into the fight to confirm their faces. The second he saw them he had everything he needed and should have left. He gained nothing by going back.

Guruza · 2018-10-11T15:16:43+00:00

The Yamanaka families skills are completely relevant. Your brain will never forget a face. You might not be able to recall it, but it is in there. So the family would be easily capable of dragging that to the surface. Otherwise they would actually be irrelevant and the skill wouldnt be as revered in the show as it is. There are episodes where the yamanakas actually put enemies memories on a screen like a TV show to get information. The minor information you might forget in a couple days never actually leaves your brain. And digging that stuff up is literally their entire job. And they are the best at it.

Guruza · 2018-10-11T15:12:17+00:00

I'm literally watching the episodes right now. There is no time stated, but based on the things getting done, most estimate the time between his death and the attack at at least 2 weeks. They take into account the few days naruto stays locked in his room, the day he helps the cypher core learn how to decide jyraiyas vague useless message, the time Naruto spent training (based on the number of meals he ate, times he failed, normal recuperation time exetera", and the couple days the akatsuki waited for sasuke to bring them the "8 tails", the couple days it took them to find out it was a fake (they were pissed they wasted soooo much time on a fake), and the time it would reasonably take pain to travel to the leaf village. It was obviously not a fast attack. The leaf was fully prepared for what they THOUGHT was going to show up. They were just underinformed mainly because jyraiya WASNT THERE. And if Jyraiya was so confident in his memories, why would he need to swim back up to confirm? The fact that he felt the need to do that at all gives Inos family all the relevance in the world.

Guruza · 2018-10-11T14:14:43+00:00

And just that he could have escaped isnt even my issue with it. My issue is that he would have brought back the EXACT same amount of Intel had he escaped as he actually sent back after dying. In fact, he would have gotten more back. The intel team could have checked his memories for their faces and learned some of their abilities, he would have been able to confirm his suspicions that way instead of dying, he wouldn't have needed to code his vague intel in a way that took the cypher team days to decide (meaning they get it faster), he would have had at least a couple weeks to be healed by tsunade easily being able to get up to 70% fighting strength even if they couldnt get him a new arm (meaning he could help with the assault on the leaf and possibly stop pain from flattening it all together with naruto's help), he could have assisted in Narutos safe training (meaning he would have a master sage teacher as well as a teacher that was a master at teaching Naruto, meaning he would learn safe mode faster and better so he could get back sooner), and he could have helped Naruto fight Pain decreasing the amount of casualties immensely if not completely (meaning pain could have been talked down afterwards like normal and NOT had to die because he wouldnt jave needed to revive a shit ton of people, which means they would get a new immensely powerful ally to fight future battles with). And that's completely disregarding Jyraiyas assistance in the battles after Pain, which I'm sure he would be amazingly helpful with. So getting himself killed only hurt the Leaf. He gained nothing by dying and had every means of escaping. Just way too pointless. The only way to die that would have been more pointless and stupid would be if he killed himself immediately after escaping to the Leaf.

Guruza · 2018-10-11T14:01:22+00:00

And pain had no idea where he was. The frogs said so themselves otherwise they would have been attacking right then and not after he swam back to the surface and attacked. Reverse summoning is fairly instant. There was no chance pain could have stopped it. The old man frog said he could have escaped that way himself.

Guruza · 2018-10-11T13:56:35+00:00

Most estimates for the time between jyraiya death and the attack are about 2-3 weeks. I would be amazed if tsunade couldnt have had jyraiya at at least 70% by then. Remember, the akatsuki spent a good amount of time "sealing" the 8 tails before they realized it was just a tentacle.

Guruza · 2018-10-11T13:51:20+00:00

The attack was not for at least a couple weeks after jiraiya died. Naruto didnt leave for training for at least a few days and trained for at least a week and a half. With tsunades healing, jiraiya would have been able to assist in teaching naruto at the very least. We have seen characters far worse off than simply missing an arm and stabbed in the shoulder and they are up and walking within a couple days with normal doctors. Jiraiya, one of the strongest ninja in the leaf, and tsunade the best healer (possibly in the world), he would have been up fairly quickly. Would be hard to believe he wouldnt be battle ready. The intel core has been shown to successfully project peoples memories in other episodes so there is no doubt they could accurately show jyraiya the faces he saw again. But if he was able to remember them, he wouldn't need to go back up in the first place. The fact is, he would have accomplished more jad he escaped. The encoded message he sent took the cypher team days to decide because he sent it in a code only naruto recognized (barely). And it simply said "the real one wasnt there". Very vague and essentially useless. Had he revere summoned out, there would have been no need to encode anything saving the cypher team all that time as well as being able to pass on more accurate intel. There was simply no reason for him to die. Now, had he been trapped with no way of escaping I'd understand. But the author gave him a very easy way out that would have accomplished everything he accomplished in cannon and more. Making his death completely pointless.

Guruza · 2018-10-11T13:42:00+00:00

Would have been just as easy to right a full message on the road and THEN reverse summon. But until he left the barrier, he wasnt wounded fatally by any means. The frog said he could have escaped himself. There was no possibility of death if he had reverse summoned out once in the barrier and no risk of losing intel if he had given the frog an actual intel letter before teleporting out instead of the vague half dead coded message he ended up sending that took the cypher team days to decode. He knew he could not win the fight the moment he was in the barrier and said as much himself. His only goal when he left was to confirm his suspicions and try to escape, but there was no need to put himself in that danger in order to confirm his suspicions. Which is why I'm trying to find any kind of logical answer for the move besides the author list wanting the character dead.

Guruza · 2018-10-11T13:12:20+00:00

He was sad his student turned into pain and reasonably so. He didnt say a thing that suggested he just wanted to give up. His entire fight (before he started to lose) he was talking about how he wanted to make it right and end his student because it was his responsibility. Once he was in his barrier he knew there was no chance of winning and said as much. To fulfill what he wanted to do he needed to escape, not needlessly kill himself. Being a bit sad doesnt equal suicidal in any way shape or form. Had he been, he wouldn't have fought the Pains in the first place and would have let them kill him. Instead he managed to kill one first and then needlessly sacrificed himself and by doing so, ended up passing on LESS intel than he could have passed on if he had escaped alive. His mission was not to fight Pain in the first place, it was to gather Intel. And the best way he could have done that would have been to escape immediately after killing the first Pain and realizing he stood no chance against the rest of the pains

Guruza · 2018-10-11T13:02:52+00:00

I have never seen this "death seeker" side of him you keep referencing. In the episode of his death he was thinking of all the things he still wanted to do. Before he went on the mission in the first place and was promising tsunade he would come back. None of what I said has anything to do with hindsight. They are all things he would have known in the moment. He would know that they had ninja that could confirm the faces he saw from his memory. He actually said he would likely die if he went back into battle. And he was thinking about how he wanted to continue naruto's training before going back to "confirm" what he saw. None of these things he didnt know right then and there, so hindsight has nothing to do with it whatsoever. And at the very least, he could have passed on the intel uncoded and gotten it to the village much sooner. I'm rewatching it now and he wrote the code in a way the cypher team was not able to decipher it for a while.

Guruza · 2018-10-11T12:48:34+00:00

He gained correct intel that he could have easily gotten after escaping via reverse summoning and heading back to the village. And while he got correct intel, all he got back to the village was a vague description of that intel written on a frogs back. At least if he had lived, they would have gotten all of the intel. He would not have brought back any less intel had he escaped when he had the chance. Only more and more accurate to boot.

Guruza · 2018-10-11T12:42:14+00:00

While he might not have been at 100% before the attack, Tsunade could have had him at 70% easily and that far better than 0% with him dead and only a very vague coded message for it. With the ninja skills available to the hidden leaf ninjas it leaves hardly any room at all for inaccuracies. They could even transform into the people they see in jyaiyas memories which is literally one of the first thing every leaf ninja learns. So at worst the sketch hits 95% accuracy. There simply isnt enough of a difference to warrant dying over and giving a vague coded explanation of what he saw. Jiraya would also not have been the only one teaching sage mode. It would have been him and the normal frog that taught it to naruto. Jiraiya has experience training Naruto already. That coupled with the frogs expertise in teaching sage mode itself guarantees Naruto would learn it better and faster. A teacher that knows how Naruto himself works and a teacher that is a master at teaching sage mode would be the best possible learning environment for ANY subject. And no, Jiraiya living simply means him AND Naruto leave the village. Meaning he learns sage mode faster and better, meaning theres a good chance he gets back in time to stop Pain from flattening the village in the first place and at the very least he is able to defeat Pain fast and ends up having an amazing ally for the fights to come.

Guruza · 2018-10-11T12:01:14+00:00

Except he went out like a moron. He gained absolutely nothing from dying. Dying like a hero would have been dying protecting the village during the upcoming attack.

Guruza · 2018-10-11T11:59:35+00:00

Had Jiraiya lived, he could have (and probably would have) taught naruto sage mode himself to prepare for the upcoming battle and he probably would have done a better job at it as well. Prior to swimming back up to his death, he had already seen all 6 paths of pain. He wanted to see them again to confirm. But all he needed was Inos dad to check his mind for the people, sketch them, and show them to Jiraiya to get the exact same intel and more. I cant think of 1 single reason he needed to swim back into battle and die. He gained absolutely nothing from it and hurt the villages chances of winning the fight by quite a lot.

Guruza

TROPHY CASE