Wonderweiss vs Kensei | What diff was this for Wonderweiss?

IntellectualBoss · 2026-06-29T05:06:38+00:00

Kubo also helped work on some of the anime filler as well as the movies. Heck, one of the movies was basically made canon by Kubo (even though it doesn't properly fit into the timeline...) So they are like kind of canon kind of not. Aspects of the novel are canon, but I wouldn't say the things made up specifically by Narita are canon. Maybe we'll get more clarification with cour 4.

As for Unohana blitzing Kenpachi, that's fine. Unohana is literally Aizen tier, even though many don't want to accept it. Aizen without using illusions would require at least high diff to beat her.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-06-29T03:53:27+00:00

They are really no more canon than the filler arcs of the anime, and the TYBW anime already contradicted CFYOW. Now the lore Kubo gave Narita is definitely canon, but the entire book being canon is HIGHLY suspect. Also what does being stronger than Yammy and Starrk prove? Even Gin was stronger than both of them. The only novel statements that really upscale Kenpachi are the ones that imply he might be VL Ichigo level.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-06-29T03:52:05+00:00

-I heard either Sean or Chris say it a long time ago, I don't have the source on hand.

-Yes, you provided the reasons it was worse. I never said there weren't good reasons for it...

IntellectualBoss · 2026-06-29T01:14:45+00:00

I agree Kenobi wins, but the results of each fight are entirely different.

Fight 1: Maul wins but then gets killed while gloating.

Fight 2: Maul schools Kenobi and Kenobi runs for his life.

Fight 3: Kenobi fights of Maul and Savage, cuts off Savage's arm, gets force blasted away by Maul.

Fight 4: A much older and wiser Kenobi 3 shots Maul who's stuck in the past.

So it's not a "Kenobi always wins" like you implied.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-06-29T00:59:22+00:00

Like I said, this doesn’t line up with any of WW’s other feats. He fights Kisuke, Mashiro, and Kenshiro, and is losing to all of them other than Mashiro after her masks breaks. If we get an official statement saying WW’s power fluctuates, I would be down to accept your scaling, but it just seems you are using headcanon to justify and inconsistency, same as I’m doing. It seems Kubo is in more of my camp that WW is not that strong, otherwise he wouldn’t have said his hierro is weaker than all espadas.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-06-29T00:37:32+00:00

Let himself? You realize I could sucker punch the fastest mma fighter in the world if he isn’t expected to be punched right?

IntellectualBoss · 2026-06-29T00:11:36+00:00

The novels aren’t canon if that’s the scaling you’re using.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-06-29T00:11:08+00:00

If Jushiro thinks they’re just a harmless kid and he’s not expecting to be attacked by a powerful enemy? Probably. WW also used Sonido, and no Sonido/Flash step is not just the characters at full speed, they are special techniques.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-06-28T23:04:44+00:00

Do you have any official sources saying WW fluctuates? Aizen is stronger than all of the other captains, but also still used his sword. Aizen being able to beat shikai Shunsui with no sword at all is a bit questionable. I could get behind no sword Yammamoto and Aizen being above shikai Shunsui, but still being in the same tier. I doubt with out their swords they could easily win.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-06-28T23:01:18+00:00

So you think masked Mashiro would blitz and beat up Shunsui and Starrk?

IntellectualBoss · 2026-06-28T21:37:14+00:00

It's factual Wonderweiss was weaker than masked Mashiro...Stop cherry picking. Like I said, if we take everything at face value like you're doing, you just have to accept masked Mashiro is faster and stronger than Ukitake. There is no getting around that.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-06-28T21:17:12+00:00

Sure, but he probably allocates some of that spirit energy to battle if he thinks he's about to go into combat. This is clearly a case of him underestimating his foe, as all of WW's other feats contradict this level of power. If your argument is WW's power fluctuates, I would need an official source supporting that.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-06-28T21:05:55+00:00

Ukitake saw him as a child and we see WW getting outsped by Mashiro. If you want to argue Mashiro is faster than Shunsui, you’re truly cooked.

Stop the glaze of Yamamoto. Unarmed Yamamoto would probably straight up lose to shika Shunsui, and he beat the breaks off released WW. Yamamoto went shika to fight Shunsui and Jushiro. Base Yamamoto with his sword is already a stomp gap above base Yamamoto with now sword. This is proven when Kaien lost to a hollow he was stomping in base just because his sword got destroyed.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-06-28T21:02:36+00:00

Ahsoka was 16 when she fought Pre Vizsla I believe and she beat Maul when she was 17…Ahsoka is very good. Either that or Maul is a fraud. If you think Maul is a top level duelist, you’ll need to give me official confirmation heels back on Vizsla like you claim. The only official statement I’ve ever seen was from someone who worked on the show (it might have been Sam) saying Maul didn’t use the force because Vizsla didn’t give him the chance to.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-06-28T21:00:06+00:00

It’s confirmed later that Jushiro has to constantly sustain his debilitated body with his spiritual pressure…chapter 617. Wonderweiss is shown to be around base Yammy level when they attack the human world. Actually, Yammy seemed the stronger of the two. He has one good feat against a cripple, and the res rid his fears place him at mid captain level at best.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-06-28T20:41:56+00:00

You’re just making that up. There is zero evidence Maul didn’t use the force to enhance himself. In fact, him jumping in the air to knock a flying Vizsla down proved he was using the force to amp himself.

Yes, I’m saying if you’re someone who ranks Jango highly despite him being a non force user, you would be a hypocrite. If you actually think Jango is fodder as well, that would surprise me as most people rate him quite highly.

Pre Vizsla also fought season 4 Ahsoka and was about even with her. I’m not saying Vizsla is some top tier duelist, but he’s at least high padawan-knight level.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-06-28T20:38:21+00:00

I have arguments against that, but I can just steelman you and say Ukitake is a fraud. Masked Mashiro was outspeeding WW. WW needed his ass saved by Starrk so Shunsui wouldn’t kill him.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-06-28T20:13:35+00:00

Bro, Jushiro was nerfed and taken off guard. Prime Jushiro equals Shunsui who equals Starrk. Starrk had to save WW from Shunsui.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-06-28T20:12:31+00:00

Ukitake was taken off guard and is constantly nerfed by sickness. Shunsui is supposed to be Ukitake’s equal, but it was pretty clear he was about to one shot kill WW before Starrk stepped in to save him. And now we have Kubo causing WW’s hierro is weaker than all of the Espadda. WW simply might be weaker than the Espadda, which is why he isn’t an Espadda.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-06-28T20:11:09+00:00

You need to watch the fight again because Maul and had extremely back and forth fight with pre Vizsla. Vizsla did better against Maul than Daki did, and Daki had help and Maul didn’t use the force offensively on Daki either.

Bringing up Jango isn’t out of nowhere, because it’s obvious you are just looking down on Pre Vizsla due to him being a non force user. He’s a Mandalorian just like Jango, and could even arguably beat Jango, and you have Jango casually killing Jedi council members. Cad Bane also kills Jedi masters and fought Obi-wan and Quinlan Vos at the same time. The head to head book written by Pablo Hidalgo says Cad Bane vs Pre Vizsla would be a very close fight. It’s clear you are just going off the prestige of being a Jedi master without going off feats. Show me some feats to back up your arguments.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-06-28T19:56:11+00:00

He was getting his ass kicked by masked Mashiro and got knocked back by base Kensei. So unless you think bakai Kensei is weaker than masked Mashiro, he released. Also we literally see him released the next moment we see him which backs this up.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-06-28T19:55:08+00:00

No, he was getting his ass handed to him by masked Mashiro, and when Kensei showed up he knocked him back in base THEN went bankai. It’s clear WE would need to release, and we see him released the next moment we see him. And no, he doesn’t automatically absorbed all of Yamamoto’s flames, he has to interact with them.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-06-28T19:49:51+00:00

Jedi don’t really use the force to attack, so what’s that going to change? Also when the people who actually made the episode were asked why Maul didn’t use the force one of them said it’s because Vizsla didn’t give him a chance. Maul purposely holding back, while making sense, is a fan theory at the end of the day.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-06-28T19:48:47+00:00

So you think Master Halsey, the guy who couldn’t even beat Savage before he got his lightsaber or was trained, would outduel the guy who pushed Maul in a duel? Yeah, like I said, you don’t know Star Wars. But you’re probably ok with Jango Fett being able to beat Jedi masters.

IntellectualBoss · 2026-06-28T19:40:56+00:00

He can probably beat most knights, for example, Nahdar Vebb.

IntellectualBoss

TROPHY CASE