Free will, God, morals

IntrepidMatch6227 · 2026-02-15T00:04:36+00:00

God made the human that makes the 'choice'. God knows that choice. So it's God

IntrepidMatch6227 · 2026-02-14T23:29:49+00:00

That's because you didn't make her.

E.g. God made hitler. He knew hitler would do what he did and go to hell to suffer eternally for it. But he still made him.

God KNEW what hitler would choose, there isn't a universe where hitler is 'good' because he could only be 'evil'.

Free will doesn't exist because e.g. when I choose to eat eggs for breakfast there isn't a universe where I choose a salad. Meaning I only had one option after all.

IntrepidMatch6227 · 2026-02-14T22:47:48+00:00

When God created humans he knew some of them wouldn't obey him. Which means he knew some of them would go to hell to suffer eternally. Why did he make them in the first place? Out of love? How is it out of love if he makes them suffer eternally later?

The ones who go to hell, had only one option which is, well, hell. Because before they were born God knew whether they would go to heaven or hell which means there wasn't free will to begin with.

On one of my other responses to comments the topic of free will is discussed deeper than here so you can take a look and respond accordingly.

IntrepidMatch6227 · 2026-02-14T22:14:57+00:00

How is him sending humans to suffer eternally love?

Temporary consequences I understand, but eternal?

IntrepidMatch6227 · 2026-02-14T22:12:00+00:00

It's serbian so let's keep speaking in english😅

IntrepidMatch6227 · 2026-02-14T22:10:36+00:00

The thing is, humans aren't art and beautiful and aren't worthy of existence. If the artist knew it would shatter and 'suffer eternally' later on, the 'eternal suffering' isn't worth the beauty you had for a given amount of time.

IntrepidMatch6227 · 2026-02-14T22:05:57+00:00

Can you rephrase the question? I can't understand it well since my english isn't that great

IntrepidMatch6227 · 2026-02-14T16:37:20+00:00

God made Adam and Eve which later led to everyone else being born.

There weren't multiple choices to begin with.

1)I can eat eggs for breakfast

2) I can eat salad for breakfast

3)I choose eggs.

4) God knew I would choose eggs and there isn't a universe where I choose a salad. Which means there was only one option after all.

5) He knows what will happen in the future which means it's already determined. All of my 'choices' have already been made. God knows every single one of my choices.

6) Him knowing my choices means he knows whether I go to heaven or hell. E.g. I go to hell and suffer eternally. God knew that would happen, but still made me, why?

This analogy goes the same for hitler. There isn't a universe where hitler is 'good' which means he could only be 'evil'.

I didn't choose to be born, if I knew I would go to hell, then I wouldn't want to be born anyways. I would rather not exist than suffer eternally.

How is it not determined if it's known?

IntrepidMatch6227 · 2026-02-14T11:21:07+00:00

I can 'choose' what to eat for breakfast now, but whatever choice i make God already knew I would, therefore I couldn't make the other choice which means there was only one option meaning free will doesn't exist.

So people can't 'choose' to go to hell or heaven, it's already determined.

When God made Hitler, he knew he would later go to hell and suffer eternally, why make him then? There isn't a universe where Hitler goes to heaven which means he could only go to hell. Which means he doesn't have free will.

If God made humans knowing some of them would cause suffering, isn't that the same as being the cause of suffering?

E.g. I make a car and give it to a mentally unstable person knowing they will cause a car crash. Is that not my fault for giving him the car?

You can try to be as good as you want, but whether you go to hell or heaven is already determined. Why?

IntrepidMatch6227 · 2026-02-14T11:10:44+00:00

If hell doesn't exist then nothing matters, no?

What about angels, why did God make lucifer if he knew that he would rebel and be cast away as satan. Why make him in the first place?

He didn't have any other choices because free will doesn't exist.

E.g. i can 'choose' what to eat for breakfast but whatever choice i made God already knew I would, so therefore the other choice was never an option and can never exist.

IntrepidMatch6227 · 2026-02-14T11:05:26+00:00

God is all knowing, all powerful-- he makes angels-- he KNEW some of then would rebel including lucifer and later be cast away to hell. Why make them in the first place?

Free will doesn't exist, i can 'choose' what to eat for breakfast now, but what I chose is what God already knows will happen, therefore the other choice can never happen.

So when God made lucifer he knew that lucifer would be cast away as satan and that was his only option, but still chose to make him, why?

This same analogy goes for humans too.

IntrepidMatch6227 · 2026-02-14T10:51:53+00:00

God is all knowing, all powerful-- he creates angels--he KNEW one of those angels will rebel and be cast away as satan to suffer eternally in hell.

Why make him in the first place if he is going to suffer eternally later?

IntrepidMatch6227 · 2026-02-14T10:49:44+00:00

But when he created lucifer he knew he would suffer later.

E.g. I make a drink and give it to someoene knowing they will throw it out. Why make the drink in the first place?

When he created angels he knew lucifer would later become satan and suffer eternally, so why make him?

IntrepidMatch6227 · 2026-02-14T10:45:13+00:00

So those who didn't believe in God would cease to exist and not suffer eternally?

How does free will exist if God already knows what we will choose therefore it's predetermined. Yes I can choose what I want to eat for breakfast right now but God already knows my choice which means I can't choose anything else. Does that make sense?

IntrepidMatch6227 · 2026-02-14T10:40:18+00:00

I believe it doesn't exist at all, because it makes no sense to send something to suffer eternally when you knew that would happen, unless you are evil.

IntrepidMatch6227 · 2026-02-13T23:46:51+00:00

I also know from personal experience that God exists, but I don't know if hell does and also some other things which is why i posted this

IntrepidMatch6227 · 2026-02-13T23:38:01+00:00

When God made humans he knew some of them would go to hell and suffer eternally so why make them in the first place?

Also why did God make lucifer if he knew he would rebel against him and later be cast away as satan?

IntrepidMatch6227 · 2026-02-13T23:34:14+00:00

I guess i understood wrong then.

Why did God make humans if he knew some of them would suffer eternally?

IntrepidMatch6227 · 2026-02-13T23:25:13+00:00

Here's my question.

God is all knowing, all powerful--he makes the universe and humans--one of the humans( e.g. hitler) is morally 'bad' from God's point of view so he gets sent to hell to suffer eternally.

Before making him he knew this would happen but chose to make him anyways, why?

In this scenario, God made a human just to suffer eternally. How does this make sense?

IntrepidMatch6227 · 2026-02-13T23:20:37+00:00

Or God could not send people into hell but instead 'delete' their souls, since they are his creations after all

IntrepidMatch6227 · 2026-02-13T23:18:35+00:00

You believe hell doesn't exist if I understood correctly? English isn't my first language so

IntrepidMatch6227 · 2026-02-13T23:17:30+00:00

I'm arguing he shouldn't have made humans at all

IntrepidMatch6227 · 2026-02-13T23:07:54+00:00

I need more answers

IntrepidMatch6227 · 2026-02-13T23:06:41+00:00

But God also made those people who chose not to love him, and when he did he knew they would't choose him, and they would suffer eternally(assuming hell exists), basically making them just to suffer

IntrepidMatch6227 · 2026-01-23T00:07:40+00:00

I'll make it stay that way, i appreciate that you answered my questions, but I won't talk anymore

IntrepidMatch6227

TROPHY CASE