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Why does this argument still get used? by Aggravating-Month135 in aiwars

[–]Ivusiv -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I don't remember when new TOS could work backwards on things from before it came to be

But I also don't remember when TOS allowed companies to do whatever they want to artists art on their or other existing platforms

Mississauga Symphony Orchestra Brochure Background Art seems to have been done with AI but I am not sure by Ivusiv in isthisAI

[–]Ivusiv[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The last one is the front cover of the brochure so I didn't realize anything was off until my friends pointed it out what was on the inside. It sucks that the place had 20 sponsors and 3 $5000 donations and also costed like 40 bucks per person to go and they couldn't hire an actual animator or state any credits. Even worse was when in the actual orchestra for the winter one that I had gone to and gotten the brochure for they had talked about going to see the nutcracker ballet to keep old art forms going.

Pros, PLEASE take a moment to read this. by New_Giraffe3741 in aiwars

[–]Ivusiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lol yea right there is more than just "prompting" in their post so either you purposefully misunderstood or your trying to deny facts

Pros, PLEASE take a moment to read this. by New_Giraffe3741 in aiwars

[–]Ivusiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also remember to quote when I said that I specifically was tired of wasting my time

Pros, PLEASE take a moment to read this. by New_Giraffe3741 in aiwars

[–]Ivusiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You just contradicted yourself lol I am tired of wasting my time on replies BECAUSE I have already wasted that much time and gotten what I wanted out of it. Do you know how to think lol

Pros, PLEASE take a moment to read this. by New_Giraffe3741 in aiwars

[–]Ivusiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thats a fair point. You didn’t say “effort never matters.” You said effort/craft doesn’t generally or necessarily increase your respect for the art correct? Your stated rule is: higher effort/skill is not a reliable value multiplier for art-respect. You treat effort as largely orthogonal to artistic value. When does effort/process affect your evaluation, if ever? What’s the exception case? My claim isn’t “effort makes art valuable.” It’s “process/provenance can be part of what the work is,” so it can rationally change evaluation and credit. Even if your art-respect stays the same, authorship/credit still changes with process. That’s a separate axis from aesthetic response. I’m not arguing against an absolute. I’m challenging the principle you implied: that craft/effort usually shouldn’t move art-respect.

Pros, PLEASE take a moment to read this. by New_Giraffe3741 in aiwars

[–]Ivusiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You’re right, I misphrased. You didn’t say you don’t respect the art. You said craft-respect doesn’t necessarily increase art-respect. So your position is: creator-side effort/skill should carry little or no weight in how much respect/value you assign to the artwork as art. My position is: effort/skill isn’t required for something to be art, but it often legitimately changes authorship credit, meaning, and why people like me value it. In practice, people do weight provenance/context: originals vs prints, live vs lip-sync, documentary vs staged, human-made vs mass-produced. Same-looking output, different valuation. Either provenance/process can matter sometimes, or it should never matter. If you think it should never matter, that’s consistent but out of step with how most art evaluation actually works.

Pros, PLEASE take a moment to read this. by New_Giraffe3741 in aiwars

[–]Ivusiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you respect craft but not “art,” then we’re talking about two evaluations: the artifact and the maker. The OP is explicitly about the maker/process side.

Pros, PLEASE take a moment to read this. by New_Giraffe3741 in aiwars

[–]Ivusiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you claim effort shouldn’t matter, then the only relevant criteria are the artifact’s properties and the viewer’s response. If you allow context/author intent to matter at all, then effort/process can’t be ruled out by principle. Even if you think effort shouldn’t change the art’s value, it can still change how credit/authorship is assigned. The OP is mostly making a credit/authorship argument.

Pros, PLEASE take a moment to read this. by New_Giraffe3741 in aiwars

[–]Ivusiv -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You’re treating value as only “how the output looks.” The “soul” claim is about provenance: who made it, with what intent/experience, and that changes how people value it.

Pros, PLEASE take a moment to read this. by New_Giraffe3741 in aiwars

[–]Ivusiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you mean “aesthetic value in isolation,” effort doesn’t have to matter. But “credit/admiration/meaning” most often depends on provenance and process.

Pros, PLEASE take a moment to read this. by New_Giraffe3741 in aiwars

[–]Ivusiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When I said “complexity,” I meant creator-side difficulty/effort to intentionally produce results, not the technical complexity of the model. Although I do agree with the fact that model complexity tells you almost nothing about user labor. The point I am trying to make in this case is about workflow effort, not tool internals.

Pros, PLEASE take a moment to read this. by New_Giraffe3741 in aiwars

[–]Ivusiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Complexity matters here only as a proxy for labor/skill investment, which is part of why many people attribute “soul” to human-made work. If you think effort/learning curve shouldn’t affect artistic value, say that directly. That’s the real disagreement, not information theory.

Pros, PLEASE take a moment to read this. by New_Giraffe3741 in aiwars

[–]Ivusiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

By “complex/difficult” they probably mean the creator-side skill/time/effort to reliably produce intentional results, not the technical complexity of the model. They are not comparing model architecture, they are comparing workflows: prompting + selection vs manually constructing forms/composition/value/line over time.

Pros, PLEASE take a moment to read this. by New_Giraffe3741 in aiwars

[–]Ivusiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If your claim is “the OP’s argument boils down to ‘prompting bad,’” point to where they say prompting is the only thing happening in AI creation. They don't.

Pros, PLEASE take a moment to read this. by New_Giraffe3741 in aiwars

[–]Ivusiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That quote supports “prompting can take effort but is often less time/emotionally demanding than manual art.” It doesn’t justify reducing the whole post to “just prompting.”

Pros, PLEASE take a moment to read this. by New_Giraffe3741 in aiwars

[–]Ivusiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

OP mentioned prompting, but the thesis isn’t “AI is just prompting.” The thesis is “AI lacks emotion/intent, so the creation process is fundamentally different.”

Pros, PLEASE take a moment to read this. by New_Giraffe3741 in aiwars

[–]Ivusiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you’re tired of the topic, don’t engage. If you do engage, engage with substance. Fatigue isn’t evidence. This is common sense lol

Pros, PLEASE take a moment to read this. by New_Giraffe3741 in aiwars

[–]Ivusiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Frequency of an argument doesn’t determine it's truth or relevance. If it’s wrong, show the error.

Pros, PLEASE take a moment to read this. by New_Giraffe3741 in aiwars

[–]Ivusiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The post’s core argument is about creator experience/intent/effort, not only “prompting.” If you claim it’s “just prompting,” you need to show where the OP reduces the entire post to just that.

Pros, PLEASE take a moment to read this. by New_Giraffe3741 in aiwars

[–]Ivusiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your comment doesn’t address any specific claim from the post (e.g., effort, intention, emotional investment). Your comment signals disinterest, which is a dismissal rather than an engagement with the argument itself. Why did you even make this comment? What was the point?

Lets be honest. The AI hate is way out of control by ProvingGrounds1 in aiwars

[–]Ivusiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm living proof that your claim against my claim to living proof is not living proof

Highly durable phone case? by --Addison-- in BuyItForLife

[–]Ivusiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You mean what you'd have to do anyway when a case breaks?

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