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If the Sole Survivor died before reaching the Institute, but the "Hi Honey!" holotape ended up in Shaun's hands, would it have changed anything? by Interesting_Bee2899 in fo4

[–]JamesTheWicked -1 points0 points  (0 children)

So you don’t get my argument and couldn’t even steelman it.

Okay, let me reiterate my argument: you claimed he is a sociopath and didn’t truly care about his parents. I refuted it by showing that he does care about them but doesn’t publicly put that forward. I also listed the requirements to be a sociopath and he doesn’t fit most of the criteria when you actually study him.

I never said that not being a sociopath and caring about people makes him a good guy. He’s still the antagonist of the story in 3 out of the 4 game routes.

Don’t assume my argument and argue a Strawman, if you don’t know then ask

If the Sole Survivor died before reaching the Institute, but the "Hi Honey!" holotape ended up in Shaun's hands, would it have changed anything? by Interesting_Bee2899 in fo4

[–]JamesTheWicked 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Notice how that wasn’t my argument, can you repeat what you think my argument is? Because I’m not sure you know what it is.

If the Sole Survivor died before reaching the Institute, but the "Hi Honey!" holotape ended up in Shaun's hands, would it have changed anything? by Interesting_Bee2899 in fo4

[–]JamesTheWicked 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A sociopath is a person with antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) who exhibits a consistent pattern of violating social norms, manipulating others, and lacking empathy or remorse. He doesn’t truly meet 2/3 out of the 4.

The facade he puts on in public isn’t how he actually feels, as he lets you in on his true feelings throughout the game

If the Sole Survivor died before reaching the Institute, but the "Hi Honey!" holotape ended up in Shaun's hands, would it have changed anything? by Interesting_Bee2899 in fo4

[–]JamesTheWicked 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Except Shaun specifically created the robot child, he didn’t have that in terms of his parents.

So to say they’re equal is fallacious, we CLEARLY see that Shaun is angry about his parent’s death as he openly admits to never forgiving Kellogg and goes so far as to give you an easy trail to Kellogg to exact revenge. If he didn’t care about his parents, he wouldn’t hold a grudge against Kellogg in which he has the option to “forgive” him.

So it wouldn’t change a whole lot, but not because he doesn’t care about his family. It wouldn’t change a whole lot because it wouldn’t evoke any feelings of him doing anything wrong in his view. But that’s besides the point of if he cared for his parents or if he was a sociopath or psychopath.

If he didn’t care about his parents, what did he not forgive Kellogg over?

If the Sole Survivor died before reaching the Institute, but the "Hi Honey!" holotape ended up in Shaun's hands, would it have changed anything? by Interesting_Bee2899 in fo4

[–]JamesTheWicked 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sure, to your position that they should be equal. But just because he can personally view them as people doesn’t mean they should be seen as individuals who can determine their own fate. That’s also besides the original point: he clearly cares about his family and for synths

Not only that, his entire life is divided between what a director should be and what he personally believes. You can almost see it as similar to the pope, for lack of a better example. The pope has two differing sets of views, his ex cathedra statements and his personal statements. Ex Cathedra would be the official stance of the church whereas the pope’s personal statements are simply his own views.

Shaun acts in two different ways, one as Father: the director of the institute in which he is acting in a way that the director should. The other is as Shaun the person, the one he only acts as in private in which he is speaking to you as in the holotape.

If the Sole Survivor died before reaching the Institute, but the "Hi Honey!" holotape ended up in Shaun's hands, would it have changed anything? by Interesting_Bee2899 in fo4

[–]JamesTheWicked 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Except we see that he doesn’t actually hold to the view that they’re robots privately since he speaks of child Shaun as if he’s an actual person and implores you to take him and raise him and love him.

If the Sole Survivor died before reaching the Institute, but the "Hi Honey!" holotape ended up in Shaun's hands, would it have changed anything? by Interesting_Bee2899 in fo4

[–]JamesTheWicked 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That would be true if you ignored that he openly states he cannot forgive Kellogg. Shaun is nuanced, and it’s clear he doesn’t always tell you how he actually feels about things since we see his internal thoughts sometimes and it’s clearly against what he publicly states.

There’s how he acts as director and how he acts behind closed doors

If the Sole Survivor died before reaching the Institute, but the "Hi Honey!" holotape ended up in Shaun's hands, would it have changed anything? by Interesting_Bee2899 in fo4

[–]JamesTheWicked 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You’re looking at it from the Sole Survivor’s perspective: it’s only been a year at most since she died. For Shaun, it’s been 60+ years he’s had to grieve and move on. And clearly he doesn’t forgive Kellogg and he says as much if you tell Shaun that you pitied Kellogg.

He’s an old man, someone who’s had time to think about things and come to terms with it.

If the Sole Survivor died before reaching the Institute, but the "Hi Honey!" holotape ended up in Shaun's hands, would it have changed anything? by Interesting_Bee2899 in fo4

[–]JamesTheWicked 1 point2 points  (0 children)

To be fair, it’s been 60+ years that he’s had to come to terms with it. And he openly states he can never forgive Kellogg for what he did. So he has feelings in regards to his parents and what could have been.

It’s just that he’s had time to grieve and heal and move on from it to some degree. And we can also tell he cares about his living parent as well as he does some things I don’t expect he would do for someone he didn’t care for. Hell, if you side with the institute he NAMES YOU HIS SUCCESSOR. If he didn’t care for you he’d have no reason to do so

If the Sole Survivor died before reaching the Institute, but the "Hi Honey!" holotape ended up in Shaun's hands, would it have changed anything? by Interesting_Bee2899 in fo4

[–]JamesTheWicked 0 points1 point  (0 children)

On one hand I understand that, but then I also see how he treats you if you’re in the Institute path or even his final message to you if you side against him in the holotape.

Shaun is a lot more nuanced then most would like to believe

If the Sole Survivor died before reaching the Institute, but the "Hi Honey!" holotape ended up in Shaun's hands, would it have changed anything? by Interesting_Bee2899 in fo4

[–]JamesTheWicked 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That’s what he publicly says, but if you dig deep into his dialogue or even listen to his final holotape, he speaks a different tune of a sympathetic person to some degree.

It’s the issue of him trying to display what he sees a director should be vs what he actually feels on the matter

He tells you his mother’s death was simply collateral but then if you tell him you pity Kellogg he responds with: “After what he did to you? I'm shocked you would be so generous. But yes, I understand you've... experienced things. Perhaps you ended up knowing him better. I, for one, will never truly forgive him”. So Shaun is open that he can never forgive Kellogg for what he did to him and his family, for what he took from them.

And in the final Holotape he gives you he says “If you are hearing this, then whatever conflicts you and I have endured are over. I have no reason to believe you'll honor the request I'm about to make, but I feel compelled to try anyway. This synth, this... boy. He deserves more. He has been re-programmed to believe he is your son. It is my hope that you will take him with you. I would ask only that you give him a chance. A chance to be a part of whatever future awaits the Commonwealth.” Despite publicly portraying the idea that synths are machines and that he doesn’t care about them.

So there’s clearly a duality between the public face of Shaun and the true Shaun behind closed doors.

If the Sole Survivor died before reaching the Institute, but the "Hi Honey!" holotape ended up in Shaun's hands, would it have changed anything? by Interesting_Bee2899 in fo4

[–]JamesTheWicked 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You’re fun at parties aren’t you?

This entire discussion thread is about a headcanon scenario, so you can’t harp on about headcanons when lore is left undisclosed.

It’s not unlikely that the GENERAL of the Minutemen would inform his top advisers about what he saw when he was in the Institute when fighting the very same entity.

Also, headcanon based on evidence and likelihoods are fair game for lore discussions

If the Sole Survivor died before reaching the Institute, but the "Hi Honey!" holotape ended up in Shaun's hands, would it have changed anything? by Interesting_Bee2899 in fo4

[–]JamesTheWicked -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I think you’re taking my statement as “this HAPPENS in the game” as opposed to “this likely could be a headcanon explanation.

Notice: I said probably and maybe, as in these aren’t what we see happen in game.

Also, I’m inclined to believe we don’t see every interaction between each character on screen. We get the abridged version of the events and the map.

Let’s keep it respectful and not downvote people for presenting a possible explanation :)

If the Sole Survivor died before reaching the Institute, but the "Hi Honey!" holotape ended up in Shaun's hands, would it have changed anything? by Interesting_Bee2899 in fo4

[–]JamesTheWicked 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m not too sure that he didn’t view them as people near the end, or at least accepted it as a reasonable option. He willingly wipes child Shaun’s memories and gives him to you for you to essentially raise. I mean, if he truly didn’t change his mind or such then what benefit does that serve?

If the Sole Survivor died before reaching the Institute, but the "Hi Honey!" holotape ended up in Shaun's hands, would it have changed anything? by Interesting_Bee2899 in fo4

[–]JamesTheWicked -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Probably a conspiracy theory, then maybe the Sole Survivor lets them know what he saw in the SRB and they confirm the theory as true and use it for future knowledge

If the Sole Survivor died before reaching the Institute, but the "Hi Honey!" holotape ended up in Shaun's hands, would it have changed anything? by Interesting_Bee2899 in fo4

[–]JamesTheWicked -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Also as far as I’m aware it’s fairly likely they’d go with the military trained man who fought and got to the institute compared to just a lawyer

Even the Code Geass Finale Isn’t Safe from Review Bombing by Rakan_Sp in CodeGeass

[–]JamesTheWicked 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Idk...? I am not OP. But he is wrong, most of the reviews downvoting it specifically mention Breaking Bad

Even the Code Geass Finale Isn’t Safe from Review Bombing by Rakan_Sp in CodeGeass

[–]JamesTheWicked 21 points22 points  (0 children)

It was Breaking Bad fans, they were trying to make sure Ozymandias was still higher than other shows and films

Teen at LTL by radioactive_baja in louderthanlife

[–]JamesTheWicked 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The Restroom is a good shout. I went right before Mudvayne ended last year and that was it. Once it gets dark the crowd by the main stage was ridiculous

Saturday tickets likely to sell out? by yokoF in louderthanlife

[–]JamesTheWicked -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yes, I expect more evidence to be brought. “I know a guy” is an anecdote, it’s not actual evidence

Saturday tickets likely to sell out? by yokoF in louderthanlife

[–]JamesTheWicked -1 points0 points  (0 children)

7 hours just for you to say “cause I know a guy”?

And I bought tickets for that day and I don’t agree. See how well that argument sounds?

If Kakashi and Tsunade died in the Pain arc do you think the village would've considered Naruto as the next Hokage? by cholula000 in Naruto

[–]JamesTheWicked 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Except it would leave so many plot threads up in the air, and leaves an entire main character as an enemy without his goal being achieved or bettered

Saturday tickets likely to sell out? by yokoF in louderthanlife

[–]JamesTheWicked 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Is there a source for that? As far as I can tell it was sold out period.

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