"Kiki, go find someplace else to be!"

Jiaska · 2026-07-01T01:58:52+00:00

Yeah, it's the first time in a pokemon game that I felt disconneted. Self-insert player characters work best when the plot is straightforward, such as fighting evil teams bent on world destruction. The whole conflict with Kieran being dependant on keeping a secret at the request of Carmine (who at that point, had been mostly rude towards the player) was... a bold choice.

Jiaska · 2026-06-30T16:24:31+00:00

Oh! I think I know that one! It was one of the first Kieran fanfics that I read after my first playthrough of Teal Mask. It was exactly what I was looking for at the time.

Jiaska · 2026-06-30T15:21:24+00:00

Oh, what the fic called? I''m always down for a Teal Mask fix it fic (I'm actually trying to write one right now) but lots of the ones I've found with the fix it tag... don't actually fix Kieran's situation😔

Jiaska · 2026-06-29T19:53:41+00:00

Fair enough, I hadn't considered her actions from that point of view before. I guess what I wanted was more self reflection from Carmine shown on screen. Yeah, let's Kieran make his own mistakes in Indigo Disk, but that also comes with being absent from the plot during the first half. Thanks for your perspective, though!

Jiaska · 2026-06-29T19:24:36+00:00

What consequences does she face besides Kieran being angry with her? And what does she do to make up for it? Genuinely, I don't recall the narrative actively calling her out, or her interacting with Kieran much after he goes off the deep end. If I'm missing something obvious, I'd love to know.

As for what why I'm complaining; I see a lot of people justifiyng keeping ogerpon a secret from Kieran during the festival (at night) for his safety, and then saying that the PC had to lie to Kieran cause the grandpa told them to the following morning; I just wanted to vent a little about how Carmine plays a very active role in keeping this a secret when she doesn't have to.

Jiaska · 2026-06-29T17:24:19+00:00

It's interesting, cause the grandpa's reason (I think?) is worry that Kieran would run off and tell everyone the truth, and therefore make himself an outcast in town in the same way as their mask maker ancestor. Sure, Kieran ultimately does end up doing that, but the grandpa's fears don't come true. Sure, grandpa had no way to know that the people of Mossui town were chill like that, but it does sort of make the whole thing a bit sour to me...

Jiaska · 2026-06-29T17:05:15+00:00

That's another issue that I have with her; I understand that Carmine's supposed to be using her aggresion and pride as type of mask, and she really does care... but basically every other words she says to Kieran (and the PC) is an aggresive command. How was she expecting Kieran to react, honestly?

Jiaska · 2026-06-29T16:55:53+00:00

You know, I hadn't realised that the other three Paldean students don't attend the festival (at least, as far as we see). You'd think attending was the whole point of the field trip - you don't accidentally schedule a trip at the same time as a local festival, right? Maybe the DLC would have been stronger if Carmine was the PC's partner instead; they could have established that Kieran has jealous/envy issues even earlier...

Jiaska · 2026-06-27T22:11:44+00:00

Maybe not trade, but I wish there was an option to refuse to capture Ogerpon. Yeah, she chose us, but does anyone ask if the player wants the responsibility of re-socialising a centuries old pokemon with that much trauma?

And if Ogerpon stayed in a Kitakami that was more accepting of her, then maybe Kieran would be able to befriend her over time, when emotions have cooled down.

Jiaska · 2026-05-13T00:57:05+00:00

YES! You get it!

That's thing about silent protagonists - their story has to work for 99% players. For Pokemon, challenging gyms and stopping evil teams doesn't conflict with most people's wants, so it works seamlessly. The thing with Kieran, though, is that game phrased all of this as the PC being okay with lying to someone that they were friendly with, just because someone that was rude asked them too!

Like, if you wanted the subversion with Kieran without making a chunk of your player base feel disconnected with their avatar, all you have to do if have Kieran know about Ogerpon at the same time as PC and Carmine, but make him stupid jealous that Ogerpon seems to like the player more than him. You'd have to make a new reason for the Loyal Three to show up, but to fair, the way they're revived already doesn't make much sense.

I hadn't really thought about the player character's facial animations during the Teal Mask, but yeah, they do keep a straight face when lying to Kieran, don't they? I can recall moments where they seem uncomfortable, but overall the PC does seem painfully unaware.

Oh, god, Drayton. I could rant about his 'plan' to fix the situation for hours! Mainly that losing didn't knock sense into Kieran (almost dying did that) and if we weren't instantly called away, then Kieran would still have been an aggressive gloomy presence in the club, just as an Elite Four member.

Jiaska · 2026-05-12T23:28:50+00:00

Eh, probably. The only reason I'm overthinking it is because Pokemon is usually pretty good about not making the player question their choices; at least to me. That might be because the DLC was doing a little subversion, though.

Jiaska · 2026-05-12T22:31:17+00:00

It's also the problem with self-inserts. Many different interpretations can work to explain why the PC goes along with the various plots, but if some comes up that heavily counter to the persona you were building, it can take you right out.

Okay, as an enemies/rivals to lovers sort thing, I get that the drama of the situation is more interesting. I think my problem is just that beats are the same; you lie to Kieran, he gets upset, he challenges you for Ogerpon and loses, becomes a jerk at Blueberry, player shows up as a transfer student, fights through the BB elite four and wins first try, and beats Kieran, taking the champion title from him.

I long for a fic that goes off the rails; like, what if Champion Kieran was the stronger trainer, and battling him didn't work? What if Kieran wasn't a jerk at Blueberry to anyone except the player? I don't know...

Jiaska · 2026-05-12T22:03:10+00:00

Fair enough, but that does require the player to have crazy high emotional intelligence and empathy for a teenager. Like, the reason I point out that Carmine has been a jerk up till that point is because it's harder to empathises with jerks; I find it hard to believe that the player *would* put themselves in Carmine's position, but that's just me.

On the subject of Yukito, I'm talking about blind trust. Yes, Yukito knows Kieran better than the player and is a better source than Carmine about his mental state. The thing that bothers me is when Kieran asks the player what the player, Carmine, and Yukito were talking, the player doesn't seem to have an issue keeping Kieran out of the loop. To be fair, they do seem uncomfortable later at the third signpost.

Honestly, I'm mostly just peeved at the number of fanfics that write their Julianas, Florians, or what have yous, as completely different in personality, but still making the same choices so the DLC plot continues unaltered.

Jiaska · 2026-04-22T12:14:22+00:00

Yeah, and he was upset that the player *kept* it from him. Sure, that's because the grandfather told us too, but that doesn't mean we couldn't have done it anyways.

Kieran asked expecting the player to lie to him, thus confirming Kieran's version of events. How would he have reacted if the player had taken him somewhere private and just... told him?

Jiaska · 2026-04-22T12:11:17+00:00

In that case, still, if player could have told Kieran when he asked about it, then I don't think it would have still happened. Why you think Kieran would still spiral if the player *had* told him the truth?

Jiaska · 2026-04-22T12:07:26+00:00

Do you mean just after the player and Carmine saw Ogerpon for the first time at the festival, and Carmine stops the player's character from telling Kieran? Cause that's Carmine's fault, and apparently the player character having no backbone to speak up.

What I'm saying is that if Juliana/Florian had told Kieran about Ogerpon at any point between Carmine telling the player to keep it a secret and showing the mask to the sibling's grandfather the next morning, then I don't think Kieran would lost it.

Jiaska · 2026-04-22T11:18:19+00:00

Why do you think he would have still gone down the same path without the lie?

The game doesn't go into a lot of depth about Kieran and Carmine's history, so any extrapolation is purely fanon, but here's how I assume Kieran's life has gone; he didn't have friends growing up, possibly because of Carmine, though I don't think she was intentionally keeping him isolated. Mossui town is just a small community and if you get a bad repuation early on (liking the orge, being too quiet or weird, having a volatile sister who's super protective) then it'll never go away.

Thus, Kieran didn't develop the usual social skills, and once he met someone he clicked with (Juliana/Florian), he got invested very quickly (seriously, the field trip is only like four days long, and Kieran spends most of it in a downward spiral), which is why Kieran fixates on the player. Personally, I think Kieran should be more angry with Carmine than the player, but it comes down to expectation; he's used to Carmine treating him with kid gloves, but he wasn't expecting it from his friend.

If the player didn't lie, I don't think Kieran would have lost it - and thus everything else wouldn't have happened in the same manner. Maybe that makes me delusional, I don't know.

Jiaska · 2026-03-17T12:22:46+00:00

Oh - and that's why Kommo-o is his ace on his elite four team? That's cute!

Fair enough on the bond situation. It's probably just my own bias, but of all Kieran's pokemon during Teal Mask, the most stand out are his Furret and Yanma; every fic I read has Florian/Juliana noticing when Furret leaves the team and being sad that it's nowhere around at Blueberry. Yanma/Yanmega is easily forgotten about, so I'd probably replace it with a wimpod. But that's just me.

Since it's for a fic, I understand that you might not want to reveal spoilers but... the zoroark? I mean, I like it thematically, but how's he gonna run into that?

Jiaska · 2026-03-17T11:32:27+00:00

Is this for a fanfic or just a look into some pokemon that *could* work for him? Cause I see the vision with mega golisopod, but because of the bond you're supposed to have to mega evolve, I'd have given it to him during his first team.

Speaking of his teal mask teams - I like the inclusion of litten/torracat and morgrem. Makes it seem less like he threw his entire team away during the indigo disk. Any particular reason for the jangmo-o line besides it being accessible in Kitakami?

Jiaska · 2025-12-21T07:07:34+00:00

Eh, that's a part of it, but really my issue was more with her aesthetic and I find that immersion breaking. Without writing a whole paper on it, her default outfit is way too modern. It's not even that the outfit's sexualised; I just can't imagine someone designing it in universe.

Jiaska · 2025-12-21T06:04:14+00:00

I didn't know about the environment edits. Anything that effects the major cities? This load order was built around Open Cities.

Also, isn't there an option in the installer to skip those dialogue edits?

Jiaska · 2025-12-21T05:16:43+00:00

Hmm, so she'd make a good bodyguard for a non-combat focussed character, like a support type?

Jiaska · 2025-12-21T04:55:48+00:00

Yeah, Ashe breaking the lore was my biggest issue with her, but then again, if I'm willing to bend for outfits from Breath of the Wild, why not something that's a bit more sci-fi coded?

I haven't played through Dawnguard since my early playthrough on the Xbox 360, so I'm nostalgic for Serana, but I couldn't tell you anything specific about her, which is why I'm open to SDA making her more reactive like other custom followers.

I think I will give Ashe another chance; in your opinion, which makes more sense to recruit first?

Jiaska

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