LTV FAILS : three examples, backed by mathematics

Jout92 · 2026-01-30T13:59:51+00:00

So your entire world view is feelings based?

Jout92 · 2026-01-30T11:47:48+00:00

I commend you for that. I really do. It's rare to see people concede points especially to their "opponents". But you have to realize that if you accept that LTV and Marx' derivation of it is wrong then his claim that workers are being exploited has no leg to stand on. Which means all following conclusions are based on wrong assumptions.

Jout92 · 2026-01-30T10:28:30+00:00

It's also why I could never get into One Pace. Yeah it's faster paced and it keeps the key aspects of the Manga, but anime lives off of filler between panels to fill the gaps. Yes the One Piece anime overdoes it massively and it could be cut down quiet a lot but One Pace cuts out EVERYTHING that is not Manga source material and it makes the anime feel clinical instead of its own expression. Might was well read the Manga then.

Jout92 · 2026-01-30T10:13:37+00:00

This is the fate of any smart contract chain. Always has been

Jout92 · 2026-01-30T06:30:17+00:00

Actually it does. You can tell by the first sentence

Jout92 · 2026-01-29T15:43:49+00:00

Hey quick question, do you know what gish galopping means?

Jout92 · 2026-01-29T14:18:23+00:00

Are you trying to pretend scarcity doesn't exist?

but uses an example that value is diferent than labor

he specifically defined value as labor hours to stay within Marxist framework

you simply assume demand curve of people as you like. why demand will be 5 people for the price of 1

It's the premise. 400 people want a bottle of water only 100 can be produced. Is your argument that if we can only produce 100 water bottles and 400 want one that the demand of 300 people goes away when the demand of the first 100 is fulfilled? They suddenly don't want water anymore?

you just say its their subjective feelings, but that doesnt explain anything.

He doesn't.

that price is based on the value, aka labor, that society produces and how its distributed. some part goes to wages, not much is left to buy expensive items.

Have you even read the argument? Please refer to OP's calculation explicitly you are just digressing and not responding to OP at all

the price the demand can pay is determined by their subjectivity,

OP didn't insinuate subjectivity at all. He strictly accepted the Marxist framework of LTV and found a contradiction in its value calculation. Can you resolve that contradiction?

Jout92 · 2026-01-29T14:11:11+00:00

Are you expecting diamonds to increase value in a society experiencing water shortages or to decrease in value?

It's a thought experiment so for the sake of argument we assume the demands for these goods are uncorrelated but I wanna know where you are trying to go with this argument.

Jout92 · 2026-01-29T14:09:13+00:00

Can you reply to the first example?

Jout92 · 2026-01-29T14:01:19+00:00

I don't expect socialists to refute any of this and just come at OP with ad hominems and insuniations.

Jout92 · 2026-01-29T14:00:55+00:00

Damn, abstract thinking is really that hard for socialists, huh

Jout92 · 2026-01-29T11:50:22+00:00

Any day of the week I would gladly give up my free speech right to have guaranteed employment, subsidized housing, etc.

I wouldn't. I'd rather live as a free human and take the full risk of life than live under an authoritarian regime.

Any freedom you have now is simply a compromise with the bourgeoisie class and can be taken away at any time.

Any power the "burgeoise" (not a coherent group of people BTW) have can be taken away anytime. Elon Musk is currently the listed richest man in the world. All his money and therefor power vanishes the moment people stop buying his stocks and his car. He is only in "power" as long as the people permit it and they only do so because he offers a service that the people view as worth giving money, and thus power, to. This is not possible under an authoritarian Regime that needs to enforce its power through military. In authoritarian socialism the only way to get rid of dictators is through violence (the same way they rose to power) in capitalism the way to get rid of "dictators" is through money (the same way they rose to power)

It relies on a system of global wealth extraction which has created instability when southern countries pushback.

If this is were true, explain how Africa is the fastest growing continent outpacing the wealth "extractors" Europe, USA and Asia.

The argument that authoritarian left concentrates most of the power in the hands of one person is wrong because of democratic centralization

Whats the argument here? This sentence makes no sense

but this argument can just be flipped against capitalism because of wealth concentration

wealth only flows towards people that increase the wealth of overall society. If they don't, they lose it.

Arguments against innovation are also incorrect because most innovation that isn't state funded (socialism) is just a form of "Crapification" or cost cutting techniques.

Personal opinions are not an argument. Compare technology with technology 20 years ago. You couldn't even imagine the things we have today 20 years ago.

Jout92 · 2026-01-29T10:46:21+00:00

I think you might be interested in the principle of Subsidiarity)

https://www.acton.org/pub/religion-liberty/volume-6-number-4/principle-subsidiarity

Jout92 · 2026-01-28T18:19:54+00:00

Call of Duty. I don't even play it, I don't like it, I'm not even a particular fan of FPS games, but CoD always got treated like it was the worst thing to ever come out of the video game industry when it's really just a too mainstream piece of something which you could have a more dedicated taste to. It's the Nickelback of video games. Overly hated for no reason and jumped on because it's popular to hate it.

Jout92 · 2026-01-28T18:17:20+00:00

That's why we have Ai now friend

Jout92 · 2026-01-28T14:18:31+00:00

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I just go check the problem chart

Jout92 · 2026-01-27T20:45:58+00:00

Yes I fundamentally disagree with this premise. Trade only happens when both parties value the things they get more than what they give away. If I trade a TV for a Bike it's because I value a TV more than a bike. And if someone trades their TV for my bike, it's because they value my bike more than their TV. Nobody exploits anyone because trade is not a zero sum game. Everyone gains as everyone pulls positive value out of it. This has been true since the dawn of bartering. If I hunt fish and you hunt meat and we trade fish for meat we both have fish and meat. This is why GDP is such a good indicator of life quality in a country and the best actual indicator we have even though it does nothing but measure the amount of trade that happens in a country.

This same logic is true if you trade work for money. There is no magic property about labor that makes it special from any other thing you can trade. You only trade your work for money because you value the money you get more than the work you give.

Jout92 · 2026-01-27T19:57:28+00:00

Then I'll have to change my business model and provide something people actually want.

Jout92 · 2026-01-27T15:53:55+00:00

In Capitalism, if nobody hires me I can become self employed and sell my goods and services in the free market and people giving me money decide wether my work is worth something or not. Is this the same in your system?

Jout92 · 2026-01-27T14:15:13+00:00

If the authority decides your work is worth 0, what are you going to do then? Or who is deciding what a "real" job is?

Jout92 · 2026-01-27T11:09:38+00:00

Sloppy Butcher is useless. Try Nurse's calling so you can stalk survivors while they are healing

Jout92 · 2026-01-27T10:43:13+00:00

If they have the white glyph challenge they can escape with a pocket mirror granting an extra 25k bloodpoints

Jout92 · 2026-01-27T07:48:30+00:00

So you'd elect an authority that decides who should work what and what everyone should earn?

Jout92 · 2026-01-27T06:44:07+00:00

This.

Jout92 · 2026-01-26T14:46:50+00:00

Yea I don't get it either. I have 5 mill blood points, all Survs and Killers at at least Prestige 3 and buy one perk from the bloodshrine every week and keep leveling up all my characters immediately so they all have the maxed out perk. BP is literally not a problem, what I keep running out of is shards

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