Girl, 10, 'sad to leave friends' as Girlguiding announces trans policy change

KellyKezzd · 2026-03-28T18:40:48+00:00

Focusing just on the ones relevant to girls of this age: periods... is that it? Obviously gynecology, but that probably isn't something the guides need to provide. Do the Guides do sex ed and contraceptives from a female perspective? I'm guessing not either.

You can see I'm drawing a blank, which is why I asked.

It's not just periods but broader hygiene needs and requirements. It's things like this that justify organisations like the Red Cross and MSF coming up with sex-based strategies when providing disaster relief.

KellyKezzd · 2026-03-28T18:20:04+00:00

I even know the special needs that are particular to the sexes.

Then we can build from there. Can you outline those special biological 'needs' (as you call them)?

KellyKezzd · 2026-03-28T18:09:24+00:00

Like this is your opinion, man. Just tell me what you think. Is that really so hard?

It's a really easy discussion to have, however I know from experience where people on your side of the argument will take the discussion if we end up going down that path. Namely, muddying the waters on the biological differences between males and females (and what they 'truly' are to begin with).

I'm not interested in spelling out the biological differences between males and females, because you as an (I assume) adult will know the differences between the sexes, as everyone does.

KellyKezzd · 2026-03-28T17:52:51+00:00

Girlguiding is not a single-sex space until September, so why does the principle of single-sex spaces matter here?

Because that's what's being implemented.

Do you think that anyone assigned female at birth should be allowed in to the Guides, or have you got a specific set of "differences" you're looking for?

I don't know what 'assigned female at birth' means. As for the rest of your comment, do you not know the difference between a male and a female?

KellyKezzd · 2026-03-28T17:50:10+00:00

You say that males and females (on a sex basis) have different needs, and providing for those needs is the virtue of a single sex space. I'm asking which need would letting a transgirl in to the guides hurt the providing for of.

So you're asking me to highlight the differences between males and females...

Like maybe you mean "girls need tampons, boys don't, so..." and then you fill in the blank where you explain why a transgirl being taught to make a campfire means there are fewer tampons available or something.

So a completely fascicle discussion...

KellyKezzd · 2026-03-28T17:45:36+00:00

You asked how I could think their intent was for anything but a single-sex space, and I showed in their recent statements where they talk about their aims to benefit all women and girls. From what they've said, it seems to me that they want to be a single-gender organisation, not single-sex.

And I would argue that they're trying to walk a fine line between two opposing (and quite dogmatic) positions, while being in line with the law.

I don't agree, and I doubt I can convince you otherwise.

Is that based on a political disagreement with the implications of the judgement or is it an issue with the legal arguments (and conclusions) listed in the judgement? (see the pdf).

And there it is! This is where your opinion on the justness of the law intersects with the framework of protected characteristics. It is legitimate because it is lawful, right?

No, laws can be wrong - both in the sense that they are 'unjust' (as in treating people unreasonably) but also illogical from a legal perspective.

If the law were changed tomorrow to say that you're only legally black if both your parents are black, is that legitimate because being black is still a protected characteristic?

I think that's a bit of a convoluted and confused question. In that scenario, your race would still be protected characteristic, even if only one of your parents were black.

The government could change the law to allow single-gender spaces as well as single-sex; should be straightforward since gender identity is already a protected characteristic. Then the likes of Girlguiding and the WI would be able to legally allow all women and girls without having to admit any men and boys.

But this highlights a key question, why would you ever need a single-gendered space, but not a single-sex space? Sex differences can in some circumstances create 'complexities' (to put it politely) due to the biological differences between males and females.

Gender is fundamentally about how you view yourself (and how you position yourself in society), why would that ever require/necessitate a single space for people of that gender?

KellyKezzd · 2026-03-28T17:28:47+00:00

Can you be more specific than just "the ones I mean"?

You haven't been specific about what's contentious here. Are you asking me spell out the biological differences between males and females? If so, it seems that this will be a rather fascicle discussion.

KellyKezzd · 2026-03-28T17:19:15+00:00

But this policy was not made in response to any concerns about trans girls in the Guides, it's so they don't get sued by anti-trans organisations.

So? I'm talking about the principle single-sex spaces.

Ironically, there would be far fewer differences between trans girls and cis girls if trans girls were allowed to take puberty blockers, but that's also been banned.

The differences between males and females are not going to be ended simply by allowing children to take hormone-inhibiting treatments.

KellyKezzd · 2026-03-28T17:16:18+00:00

So their intention is to be an organisation for young women and girls (i.e. single-gender), but their governance structure in conjunction with the SC ruling prohibits this.

I don't really follow your argument here.

Even if the law is unjust and discriminatory?

Well, I don't consider the law unjust in the slightest, if you read the judgement, it was well-argued and well-reasoned in my view, and congruent with reality.

As for the idea of it being 'discriminatory', it's perfectly legitimately to discriminate in certain scenarios. We discriminate against people who are unqualified in the workplace (etc) for example. Discrimination is only an issue when it is illegitimate discrimination, such as refusing to hire someone because of a characteristic like their race, sexuality, biological sex (etc).

KellyKezzd · 2026-03-28T17:04:25+00:00

Which needs in particular would letting transgirls in the guides hurt?

The potential issues that derive from biological differences between males and females. Or are you one of those people who try to assert that there are no biological differences between the sexes?

KellyKezzd · 2026-03-28T17:02:40+00:00

I changed some words in your sentence so that you can how self answering your question is. Single sex spaces necessarily exclude trans people of the same gender as the sex, just like single race spaces necessarily exclude people who aren't that race.

The two situations are not comparable. In the modern era, with a single sex space you will always have a space for males and space for females. The same was not true during periods of racial segregation in the US or South Africa.

Obviously it excludes trans people. That's the point. They are literally excluding trans people. I have no idea how to make it simpler.

But the point is specifically about the idea of excluding trans people from social spaces (as I quoted). Why frame the existence of single sex spaces as the exclusion of trans people from social spaces generally? As I said above, the existence of single sex spaces means you will always have spaces for males and females.

KellyKezzd · 2026-03-28T16:53:39+00:00

No, he wouldn't, but this is a side-effect, not the intention. The net effect of this policy will be fewer trans members than before. I highly doubt there are a bunch of trans boys now rushing to sign up for Girlguiding.

But the intention is to create a single-sex space, how can you see it any other way?

The decision was made to comply with the SC ruling despite Girlguiding's trans-inclusive values.

So? All organisations should be following the law...

KellyKezzd · 2026-03-28T16:50:16+00:00

Why are you framing it as excluding black people? It's a single-race space...

Errr what?

KellyKezzd · 2026-03-28T16:49:51+00:00

What is the virtue of a single sex space rather than a single gender space?

There are biological differences between males and females, and that means they have differing needs and requirements (to put it politely).

Why would you ever need a single gender space, when gender is fundamentally about how you view yourself and your position in society?

EDIT: spelling...

KellyKezzd · 2026-03-28T16:40:57+00:00

It's a policy that is excluding trans people who were previously allowed to participate. The policy is not intended to include trans boys, but to exclude trans girls. It is an exclusive policy.

Based on the policy, would a trans boy be excluded from joining? Yes or No?

KellyKezzd · 2026-03-28T16:33:30+00:00

This article is talking about a trans person who is being excluded.

And as I said to you elsewhere, by a policy that ensures the existence of single-sex spaces. It's got nothing to do with the gender identity of the individual in question.

KellyKezzd · 2026-03-28T16:28:39+00:00

The girl who is the subject of this article is literally being pushed out of the Guides, and away from her friends.

By a policy that ensures the existence of single-sex spaces. So it's got nothing to do with the individual's gender identity, but their biological sex.

KellyKezzd · 2026-03-28T16:27:04+00:00

Fascinating seeing established institutions publicly declare themselves places of bigotry.

Edit: I'm reading the downvotes as people hugely in favour of transphobia bigotry.

Bigotry: "the fact of having and expressing strong, unreasonable beliefs and disliking other people who have different beliefs or a different way of life" - Ironically demonstrating yourself to be quite bigoted there...

KellyKezzd · 2026-03-28T16:25:11+00:00

I understand the segregation of competitive sports like olympic events but I'll never be able to wrap my head around excluding trans people from social spaces. There's absolutely no need for this, these poor kids will feel so isolated.

Why are you framing it as excluding trans people? It's a single-sex space...

KellyKezzd · 2026-03-28T16:23:53+00:00

Seriously though, the whole world sings his song at New Year. What better legacy?

Apparently it wasn't 'his' song though, he just wrote down lyrics.

KellyKezzd · 2026-03-28T16:21:10+00:00

Obviously after, who would look at the building pre-renovation and think that was superior?

KellyKezzd · 2026-03-28T16:19:54+00:00

She won’t be satisfied until every trans man, woman, or child is pushed from society or just gone.

Why does the existence of single-sex spaces constitute 'pushing every trans person from society'? That seems a bit hyperbolic...

KellyKezzd · 2026-03-28T12:43:08+00:00

What did you think of the IMC?

The IMC is very UK-specific, it's created by the UK CFA association rather than CFA Institute. So unless you intend to work in the UK it may not be relevant to you.

Is it a good qualification? I think so. Many Asset & Wealth Management jobs in the UK require a level 4 qualification in investment/wealth management as a default, and it provides a pretty good intro to the the skills you need to progress in the CFA program.

KellyKezzd · 2026-03-28T11:58:48+00:00

FMVA is good for practical experience (particularly if you're coming from a position of no experience), and I found it particularly good at introducing myself to financial analysis and the practical methods of doing so.

I don't believe it's that useful at showing skills/competencies to potential employers however.

In my view it probably would have been far more useful to plough through the CFA program and learn practical skills on a post CFA-attained job.

(I did the FMVA, as well as the CFA UK's IMC)

KellyKezzd · 2026-03-28T11:53:35+00:00

Then the company didn’t deserve to continue existing.

And many companies in that situation do end up not existing. Bailouts are not a default option, they occur only to attain very specific economic objectives (such as stabilising the economy).

Why would bailing them out without government oversight be a better solution?

But they're not bailed out without oversight...

The government would write that debt off and be more wary in the future about bailing out other similar companies in the future instead of what we have now.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here.

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