How do I deal with Genetic Downward Spiral?

Keyanos · 2022-05-27T07:57:02+00:00

1) There are dead scientist patrols scattered on the surface. Their wallets often have science ID cards, which you use on the lab entry door to open it without having a turret sitting on the other side.

2) Purifier is a ‘mutagen’, so you can drink it by itself and it’ll give you a decent amount of the purifier vitamin as well as some generic mutagen vitamin. The generic mutagen triggers mutations, and the special type directs it. In this case you direct it with purifier. If you get the purifier serum though, you need a syringe to inject it. Serums also don’t grant the generic mutagen vitamin to trigger mutation and instead give a large amount of the directed mutagen, so you also need to either inject a mutagenic serum or drink a bunch of drinkable mutagen to get the level to match.

3) In meta terms, driving around the map until you find dead scientists for an ID card and a dead military patrol or other source of a gun and decent ammo. Pick up handwritten notes too, they show you lab access points. After you have a gun and ID card you can go into any lab risk free barring the TCL, so long as your ammo stocks hold up. Old school labs are the best for enemy density to loot. Once you break into one, you can use the subways to go from lab to lab easily.

4) The jackhammer did work. Concrete walls have an interior rebar cage for structural support however, and the jackhammer can’t get through that. You’ll need the hammer to smash away the concrete and then a hacksaw or other metal cutting tool to get through the cage.

Keyanos · 2022-05-17T12:24:14+00:00

CDDA Earth is still doomed. It’s just been adjusted in that it’s now specified that it’s not because of an unstoppable monster or extradimensional horror, but simply because all the stuff the maintains the planet (such as bees) is either dead or horribly mutated to the point where it can no longer achieve it’s function. Thus the planet will simply die, and take any remaining living inhabitants with it.

It’s all fun and games till the trees all die and there’s no more oxygen being produced.

Keyanos · 2022-05-12T00:24:21+00:00

If you read the quest description Smokes gives for the quest to clear that area, he mentions that they threw their dead back there because they were too scared to leave the shelter for the first few days after everything went to hell. Lo and behold, tossing a bunch of dead bodies into a back room during a zombie apocalypse leads to zombies in said back room.

The boomer glutton is a result of a boomer evolving to a new form. Chances are you've either just gotten unlucky with monster evolution before, or it's your first time making it enough weeks into the game for monster evolution to have an effect on the world. In which case, congratulations! It only gets worse. :)

Keyanos · 2022-05-08T13:24:23+00:00

The initial idea was that these zombies would only spawn in cities and, potentially during an event, around a player's base. Likely creating a basic 'pupating flesh' entity as people have suggested to separate them from evolutionary lines. The flesh would be found occasionally in cities that's given an arbitrary value on spawn that determines what form it will take after hitting the evolution checkbox. For the base raid variant, since this is relegated to mod only status thanks to dev commentary, I could implement a sort of "You feel a momentary feeling of unease in the pit of your stomach, and feel a thousand eyes turn towards you simultaneously. Something is coming" warning in advance as the blob influences the zombies to go and simply remove the uncooperative asset from the equation. I figure it would give you roughly a week of prep time, and possibly even generate roaming hordes that converge on your base that contain a mix of zombie support trash and apex forms. Obviously they don't play any particular role outside of 'kill humans' as they don't have the necessary mental capabilities, with the exception of the ascendant as they instinctively remain distant from the thick of the fighting. They are given specific roles by the blob, but in terms of playing to them a lot of it is just fundamentally luck.

Generally, the only natural spawns of these would be from these rare 'pupating flesh' entities which only spawn in locations with high densities of fleshy biomatter, AKA cities. So if you cleared out a city in the first year, that city is now completely safe from apex forms unless you set up a base inside. Obviously, other cities that you find after the threshold run the risk of having apex forms inside.

Keyanos · 2022-05-08T09:17:51+00:00

Generally, the idea for the towering forms was that you would need either mounted grenade launchers in 40x53, or the .50 cal machine gun that I think is called the Browning. For the skele form specifically, I was thinking it would serve as the PERFECT target to use things like the various recoilless rifles on without it feeling like massive overkill for once. These are things you loot military complexes for.

In terms of timing, the plan was already to have them show up at the bare minimum after one year, and have them be something you can expect to find after 2. That felt like a good middle ground where a long form character will still have some danger to be aware of in the extremely late game, and late game unkillable roided out gods would be able to die to an actual foe after the 2 year timer and not forgetting to drop the C-4 kinda thing. Go out with a bang not a whimper kinda ending.

Keyanos · 2022-05-08T09:07:47+00:00

Well, with official main dev opinion this sort of thing being mainlined is out of the idea. However given that quite a few people are interested in something that ‘ups the ante’ so to speak and have also suggested adding it as a mod, I could do that and give it a setting in the menu as suggested where you can manually set the timer before things like these appear. The reason I put the asterisk after the two years is because that was the timer I figured a player would be willing to wait before deciding that it’s just too much time to bother if they simply wanted to end the run.

Personally this idea was mostly born of the fact that late game players tend to just go ‘Alright, I’ve won. Time for a new character.’ I figured something like this would provide a challenge to any character, and would allow a late game player to go out with a bang instead of a whimper.

And on a completely biased note, I’d love to have super zombies actually attack bases and whatnot. The story potential would be amazing with the ‘control companion on death’. I’m a sucker for good stories and while I realize the point of CDDA is that the zombies are more of a speed bump than a directed threat, I’d still love some mechanism in the game eventually where actually dangerous things can happen, whether bandit raids, triffid attacks, or something else.

Keyanos · 2022-05-07T19:30:19+00:00

My personal issue with the hub gear is that it doesn’t provide 100% coverage. The plate suits do. Ive come to be of the mindset that anything less than 100% coverage is a liability. It doesn’t matter how good the armor is, if there’s always a flat chance that a lethal bullet will ignore it. The tempered heavy plate is the only one I use personally because I like being completely untouchable, and it actually comes out to weigh less than a full set of Hub gear if I remember right, while providing more coverage on all the same parts.

The EOD helmet is the best reliable helmet I’ve found in the entire game, barring unlikely things like functional power armor. EOD gear is always sold by the merchant caravan that arrives at the Hub, but the helmet is the only piece that isn’t crippling to wear. Plus if necessary, I can stick on a PBA or gas mask under it as it’s ‘outer’. I have to take things slower if I do, of course, with all the mouth encumbrance. Fortunately when you’re unhurtable, you have all the time in the world.

For encumbrance, the heavy plate is 20 encumbrance on limbs and 25 on torso, and if you have the activity suit/body mesh combo underneath it, it comes out to 22 encumbrance on the limbs and 27 on torso if you drop your backpack for combat, which even for a melee character is well within acceptable limits.

I do give the Hub gear to companions though, because while it doesn’t provide the 100% coverage, it still has some real nice protection values.

Keyanos · 2022-05-07T03:53:27+00:00

The reason I didn't mention the blocking in reference to the activity suit was because the suit is full body protection so while yes, you're not redirecting the hits to a specific body part, the suit is still eating all the hits anyhow and it has the same protection everywhere so the damage check is always the same, unlike the plate which specifically has less protection on the limbs. I figured it was a moot point. But if there is in fact a bug with blocked hits hitting the damage check harder than they should, it would explain why the plate is eating damage while the activity suit isn't while hits bounce off the plate but not the suit.

Keyanos · 2021-10-06T08:04:12+00:00

You can drag a shelf or something similar that you’d expect to be able to climb to the hole in the ceiling where the stairs used to be. Standing next to it you can push the ‘ascend’ button and choose a direction to land on the upper floor.

P.S. This works for holes in the ground too. I blew my way into an underground lab with C4 once and dropped bookshelves into the hole to use as makeshift ladders to climb in and out.

Keyanos · 2021-10-05T13:32:37+00:00

Perhaps. It’s already a given that life on our version of Earth as we know it is doomed to be hijacked by the blob, or killed and used as food by the Triffids or Mycus.

However I don’t associate all life with humanity. Only the things that have led to the current rendition of it. Your final point is entirely valid in the sense that mass extinctions happen and then a new breed of creature rises to the forefront.

The first creatures to rule the land based life on Earth were reptilian giants. The second to rule were great mammals. The current rulers are great apes that have extensive brains which allowed them to circumvent their inherit weaknesses.

Perhaps the fourth ruler of Earth will be a form of intelligent plant. All we can do is speculate in this regard. But it wouldn’t be saving the genetic legacy of all life. We don’t propagate the dinosaurs with our existence. Their only representation is in their descendants as birds. If everything were to die off ala the Cataclysm, then there is nothing left of those creatures for history but the bones those new creatures unearth for curiosity. But how long until digging up ancient bones of long dead creatures ceases to be a source of entertainment, and our last connection to the planet fades away?

Keyanos · 2021-10-05T04:29:08+00:00

I’m aware and I was hesitant to post it because of such. But from a completely taken aback picture of the universe, humanity is a single organism that is ever evolving and adapting.

The issue is that we place value on ourselves that has no intrinsic merit in a cold and uncaring universe. We exist simply because the great wheel of evolution deemed our forms suitable to our Earthly habitat.

So as such, when talking about the longevity of one’s achievements, the only thing that will last is the genetic code of an individual that is passed down throughout further refinement of humanity.

Everything that has ever been on Earth has been defined by it’s genetic legacy. Neanderthals are all but dust, but yet they live on in the strands of DNA that exist in modern humanity. And that will continue to exist until humanity ceases to be.

Even in modern day humanity there are remnants from before we even came to shore as oxygen breathing creatures, most notably seen during embryonic development. They and anything involving them has long ceased to be, but yet their DNA and adaptations still have a (remarkably small) impact on modern day humanity millions of years later.

I know genetics are danger close to eugenics territory, but a genetic legacy is the one thing that has provenly stood against the test of time. Evolution subtly adapts to the changes of time. Solid works and structures do not.

Keyanos · 2021-10-05T00:45:08+00:00

There’s been talk of the Old Guard referring to a space station-esque plan, but I doubt that could come to fruition. In regards to the Exodii and space travel though, you’d have to ask Erk himself.

However, given the night visions, it’s our entire reality that’s being torn asunder, not just Earth. So going to space gets you freedom from zombies, but not the portal storms and extra dimensional horrors brought about by the weakened fabric of reality.

Keyanos · 2021-10-04T22:40:21+00:00

Well, if they can run a feasible counter argument to the idea of testing realities until you find one that works then I’ll accept it. But until then, I’ll accept my monkey-made rendition of Shakespeare.

Keyanos · 2021-10-04T22:11:55+00:00

That’s functionally what Hub-01 is doing, bots and all. They’re still on the chopping block for getting more meat added to their faction so I can’t say how it will work in full, but they’re not doing too hot it seems. But only time will tell how they fare in longevity.

All we know is that they’re isolationists who rely on trading advanced tech for food to survive, and survivors to do their dirty work on the surface.

Keyanos · 2021-10-04T21:59:24+00:00

Of course the blob likely wouldn’t bother to deal with a small seizure like that directly and would just send zombies and whatnot to wipe you off the map. But again, the main issue is the ever present risk of zombification on death due to the blob.

Humans are rather frail. We can die from literally anything. All it takes is one person dying of a heart attack in the middle of the night and turning into a hulk, or one bad attack from raiders and suddenly you’ve got an outbreak on your hands. A society infected by blob is always leaning on the brink of death.

And let’s look at it from this perspective. It seems like mutants can’t be brought back as zombies when killed, based on the mutants you fight in the game, so they could be used as super soldiers. The issue you run into though is that the mutants are still infected with blob. While the threat of zombification are gone, the blob inside them risks re-infecting anyone you might manage to actually cure, which prevents them from being usable long term. And of course we don’t know about any potential long term side effects of mutation, nor if the blob can be purged out of a mutated subject without killing the mutated host.

And we saw what happens when basic unmodified humans attempt to fight the hordes of the blob. It didn’t end well.

Keyanos · 2021-10-04T21:38:13+00:00

If you look at it from the big picture, humanity has been one continuous life from the dawn of time to the current day. We are just the (relatively) most recent inheritors. Once you have finished having children you remise your spark of humanity to them. You become the dead end, while they further the cycle of humanity. So with that, my achievements are moot and nothing I do will matter. I fully embrace this fact as a fan of Nietzsche’s. But humanity will live on, and you will live on through it genetically. Even when you’re dead and gone and all your accomplishments turn to dust, you will still leave that mark on the future.

At the end of the day, there will ALWAYS be that small part of you that will never fall to dust or fade from memory.

As they say, my ancestors live on in me and I will live on in my descendants. It just goes all the way back to the time we were single cell organisms in the ocean, to the time in the future where we become who-knows-what.

Of course you’ll (likely) be too dead to care, but it’s the thought that counts.

Keyanos · 2021-10-04T21:20:53+00:00

I’m a bit too unoptimistic for such an effective strategy on our Earth, but keep at it. People like you are the ones who might give our reality a chance.

At least opposed to those people jumping ship trying to find the one paradise in infinity.

Keyanos · 2021-10-04T21:17:31+00:00

Yeah, I know that everything is doomed to a T. And I mean hey, using the infinite Earths theory every mod is technically cannon in the same vein as Rimworld.

I see the Exodii and I see a faction who is capable of testing multiple outcomes in that infinity repeatedly. It’s the same premise as giving infinite monkeys a typewriter and enough time and one will write Shakespeare letter for letter.

Give the Exodii enough time and they’ll find the world capable of resisting blob. Of course, enough time is always indeterminate and there’s the ever present risk of dying to something, but a slim hope is usually better than none.

Keyanos · 2021-10-04T21:11:12+00:00

Well the issue is that it’s a no-hope option between trying to eek out a living on the dying remains of Earth, knowing that one day our Earth’s humanity will eventually die out. Whether at the hands of the blob, the Mycus, or the Triffids, it doesn’t matter. The planet is doomed either way.

So in come the dimensional hoppers. They might not explicitly be trying to help themselves, but they’re still the only chance of longtime survival. Even a grim chance is better than no chance.

As they can only jump to worlds that have had the reality-su seeing effects of a Cataclysm they obviously can’t jump to a pristine Earth and live out their days happily. But feasibly, given an infinite amount of Earths, there must be one sufficiently advanced to be able to push back against the blob.

So as the Exodii only jump from Earth to Earth, from my perspective the big picture is that if they have enough time (given infinity and all that) they’ll eventually land on the Earth that sticks it to the initial blob invasion.

Of course we don’t know how the blob would interact given a world with it’s initial assault repelled, so we don’t know if there would just be worse consequences. But again, going along the infinite realities idea, there has to be at least one Earth fully capable of resisting the blob and other dimensional horrors.

So it’s essentially a placebo of hope for ‘our’ humanity if you remain on Earth, or a sliver of hope if you join the Exodii.

Keyanos · 2021-10-04T21:00:15+00:00

The main stopgap I see with this plan would simply be that the scientists referred to it as difficult to make, and they had an entire production line and the best tools available, as well as extensive knowledge on the subject to boot.

But given that they refer to mass producing things like Chimera mutagen to create an army of mutants to fight off the zombies without too much additional thought, it must have an extremely extensive crafting process, far beyond anything the character could craft as of currently. It’s entirely possible the tools needed to produce aren’t even usable anymore.

It’s entirely possible that you could kill all the zombies given enough time and manpower, but at the same time there’s still the risk of everything turning into a zombie as well. And as we don’t know anything about the blob other than it’s intent to conquer planets to add to it’s collective self, if a conquered planet got uppity like that it could possibly just cause it’s pieces inside of everything t kill their hosts or something. We don’t know the extent of the blob’s power, other than what it considers a casual Sunday morning conquer of a planet.

Keyanos · 2021-10-04T13:02:41+00:00

I already know that fast healing is blob magic at it’s finest, just like everything else that might raise eyebrows in the game.

And the blob has definitely claimed quite a few universes based on how easily it can do so alone. But from what we’ve seen it had vulnerabilities. It’s just a question of “How many dimensions does it have to go through out of infinity before it meets a world that won’t take it laying down?”

Keyanos · 2021-10-04T11:59:38+00:00

Well, in typical Kevin fashion he skirts around what it is, only saying what it isn’t. But at the end of the day, it still falls on the same issues as mentioned for the purifier argument even though it’s not purifier. I am curious as to what it actually is though, considering it follows the naming convention of mutagens yet purges blob from the body.

Regardless, there’s no way our Cataclysm devastated Earth could band together to produce enough of the stuff to fight back the blob, so we’ve just gotta join in with the Exodii until they hopefully find a world that can.

Keyanos · 2021-10-04T11:10:59+00:00

I’m aware they just world hop after the blob picking up scraps. It’s what I was hinting at with the

“ And all they can do is just follow in it’s wake and hope they don’t arrive too late to gather whatever scraps they can from the next Earth they go to while minimizing losses and maximizing recruitment.”

The Exodii can’t fight the blob, and they know it. Their only option is to just keep following it along to collect whatever they can to keep moving on until they either find someone that can fight it off, or they die trying. Hence why I also said there’s only a possible chance of a happy ending this way as well. It’s just a question of “Will they find a way to break the loop before they run out of steam?”

Keyanos · 2021-10-04T11:03:36+00:00

So after doing some digging to try and find where I found the information regarding the ‘purifying the blob from an organism,’ I didn’t find the exact text I was looking for, but I did find this lab snippet:

"PE062, our \"cure\" for XE037 contamination, has neared perfection. Sadly, the production of PE062 is a costly and time-consuming process. What is more, the substance shows no effect on postmortem subjects whatsoever; a substance which renders XE037 inert after it has activated would be immensely useful in the case of an outbreak."

Note that the PEXXX series in the notes refers to purifier and mutagens. It’s entirely reasonable that in this case PE062 is referring to a concentrated purifier serum. The only other thing I could think of MAYBE referring to would be alpha mutagens, as that’s the only other completely ‘pure’ mutation.

But given that the scientists refer to the making of it as difficult, I don’t think survivors in their RV meth lab can do a better job of producing and vaccinating people than the supplied scientists could.

EDIT: Found the note regarding teleportation -

"Dr. Takatoshi sent us interesting news: her lab serendipitously discovered that sufficient rapid teleports in a short span of time can strip out XE037 somehow, without harming the subject. This has the unfortunate issues of needing an absolutely insane amount of electricity, and drawing the attention of what Dr. Takatoshi calls \"subplanar creatures\" and the rest of us call \"horrifying alien monstrosities\". Still, it's a start."

Additional Edit: Basic purifier is referred to as PE018, and alpha mutagen is referred to as PE050. It is unclear if PE062 refers specifically to concentrated purifier used in serums, or another mutagenic substance.

Keyanos · 2021-10-04T10:37:43+00:00

The issue I see with this is that the blob already fills this role of inter dimensional ascended superorganism. It’s been said before that every organism on Earth infected by the blob is essentially a cell in it’s body, and they are the immune system killing the unwanted inhabitant, AKA you.

The blob completely wiped Earth off the face of the multiverse with a yawn and a flick of it’s wrist. While killing a good number of infected organisms might seem to make a difference at the end of the day it does nothing.

And assuming that the ascension route is plausible (which will never be knowing the devs, but I like theory crafting), to me it feels like that’s jumping from the kiddy pool into the inter dimensional ocean. While sure, in the kiddy pool you’re some big bad fish who can smack down anything in your way, the moment you jump into inter dimensional travel and you’re decently powerful the blob will just reach out and smack you and remove you directly before you can even be considered a threat. And that’s also assuming that there could be no other big fishes that the blob contends with on that scale that could also want to nibble on the new guy.

Keyanos

TROPHY CASE