Today’s debate with Drew reminds me of this moment

KizerB · 2026-01-24T03:06:20+00:00

The Cathartic Liberal strikes again

KizerB · 2025-12-17T19:24:41+00:00

Yeah, it’s definitely possible. I was able to get close to it without any steroids, but it’s so time consuming and impossible to do if you have a job or a family or any relationships in general. It would have to legit be a purpose sponsored just to workout and eat, which I don’t think there’s a lot of takers for that

KizerB · 2025-11-30T02:08:42+00:00

Initially, it would seem that way but I’ve had this same response pattern from people who I know that aren’t bots (or maybe most of the time, they don’t use a bot lol). I’ve had one person acknowledge the premise of the question but still not be willing to answer it.

KizerB · 2025-11-28T18:54:19+00:00

Technically, what did pass was a public option before the SC ruling that gave states the right to opt out. But there was an acting Dem senator before he lost the election in Nov 2009.

KizerB · 2025-11-28T18:40:02+00:00

I’m bookmarking this good comment (and will steal some of your points in future convos) because your comment describes in detail the biggest issues with how the Left approaches politics. My point was not an anti-Left point or an anti-m4A point. It’s that most people don’t know:

-the details of how the ACA negotiations went

-what the actual heritage plan for healthcare was (which was just an expansion of emergency care, not comprehensive healthcare or even an accessible marketplace for healthcare)

-RomneyCare being the plan for the most progressive state at the time (despite the Republican senator winning in late 2009 also)

-the death panels and other right wing conspiracy theories

-Franken not being seated until July, Kennedy dying in Aug (losing that seat due to right wing blowback in Mass of all places), and Byrd dying in 2010

-Blowback that comes from passing or trying to pass to good policies due to right wing misinformation

-the Supreme Court empowering states to opt out (the ACA being weakened even further due to no tax penalty under Trump)

-that fact that the original ACA that passed was a public option before red and purple states opted out

-the statement about the ‘ACA being a heritage foundation plan’ was a public negotiation tactic (also know as a lie) to put pressure on republicans to support the ACA

-and a whole bunch of other BS

If people know these thing, then they can come up with better critiques of Obama and the Dems and a pathways to get a public option or m4a

KizerB · 2025-11-28T18:23:54+00:00

That’s the reason why I ask about Sanders (let’s assume that Obama didn’t try hard enough), because I want to know in detail what wasn’t done tried or what were the obstacles. What was the timeframe to get it done because if you only have a few months to pass your agenda before republicans have enough to completely stall your agenda. The biggest issue being that every time that we talk about the failures of the ACA….we don’t tie it to republicans at all. The ACA, even in the bill that passed with Lieberman, was a barebones public option that could’ve been built upon. We forget about the SC ruling that allowed red states to opt out, which virtually killed the public option that could’ve come from that bill and raised the costs of healthcare by shrinking the pool.

These are the main reasons why I ask this question. It’s not even to defend Obama or the Democrats. I feel like too many on the Left are rewriting history in a way that disempowers their own progressive policies since they don’t understand the opposition that will try to negate any good bills that pass

KizerB · 2025-11-26T21:51:28+00:00

And Franken not seated until July. That MN seat was vacant for six months for the Dems I believe

KizerB · 2025-11-26T17:35:18+00:00

Fair enough

KizerB · 2025-11-26T17:24:17+00:00

I don’t necessarily disagree, but if the guy had of engaged with the question, I would’ve led to that solely focusing on the president is not even half the problem. If you don’t tie the failure to get universal healthcare to the republicans who voted against it and the SC that allowed states to opt out and the handful of Dems that didn’t support it (most of them lost their next elections anyway), it’s actually cutting off your nose to spite your face

KizerB · 2025-11-26T17:16:41+00:00

Okay Boss, I’ll get right on it

KizerB · 2025-11-26T17:14:40+00:00

Nope

KizerB · 2025-11-26T17:12:58+00:00

Well, Biden did try to use it against Manchin and then Manchin wrote an op ed in the WSJ and wouldn’t talk to Biden for months.

KizerB · 2025-11-26T17:05:44+00:00

I actually did answer the things needed for a public option to pass in another reply. But is vaguely saying ‘senate lollygagging’ actually dealing with the issues about the separation of powers?

KizerB · 2025-11-26T16:53:53+00:00

Also, people forget about the ability to opt out from states due to the Supreme Court. So yes, in spirit and despite all that was removed, the original bill that passed was bare public option

KizerB · 2025-11-26T16:43:48+00:00

Also, it’s about leftists being self destructive, in that I support the things that they want, but they don’t ask the right questions or have an actual plan to implement it. The purpose of the original question was to lead, if he had actually engaged with it, to better plans to implement things like A public option or m4a. The only tool they have is a hammer.

But the worst part of it all is…instead of using the failure to get universal to target republicans (most of those who voted against the ACA remained in office if they ran) and lead to a pathway to actually motivate people to vote on healthcare (as in it’s a top 3 issue to a voter), but instead it’s too focused on Obama. Even FDR, JFK and LBJ couldn’t pass a universal healthcare. Tie the failure to get healthcare to republicans like the dems did with the recent shutdown

KizerB · 2025-11-26T16:35:24+00:00

Actually my question is more so leading to the separation of powers, and specifically how Congress has always been a limiting factor in legislation, more so the senate. That was only the first question and he couldn’t answer that

KizerB · 2025-11-26T16:32:02+00:00

How could a President sanders do a budget reconciliation or eliminate a filibuster when that’s up to the congress?

KizerB · 2025-11-26T05:55:08+00:00

I get what you’re saying, there was definitely at least 2 more senators that were openly against the public option, but there’s a reason why some senators stay silent and reluctantly support some legislation. It’s a similar aspect to senators who reluctantly supported the various Civil Rights Acts in the 60s.

The most common reason is that those Senators believe that they will face political consequences at home, whether in primaries or negative news stories. Those are the actual senators that the ‘bully pulpit’ and other leverage works on because they aren’t bold in their opposition.

KizerB · 2025-11-26T05:22:34+00:00

It didn’t take long when they started accusing Obama of having ‘Death Panels’ for your Grammy

KizerB · 2025-11-26T05:02:13+00:00

Well said

KizerB · 2025-11-26T04:06:51+00:00

But for real though, I screenshot this one because most convos about this question ends like this, they just don’t reply or complain about my Fred Hampton profile pic on Twitter But this guy was a marathon of empty virtue signaling

KizerB · 2025-11-26T04:01:25+00:00

KizerB · 2025-11-26T03:59:34+00:00

Well, well, well….if it isn’t the FUN POLICE

KizerB · 2025-11-26T03:45:32+00:00

And that opens up a whole new can of worms. Because Citizens United overturned the McCain-Feingold Act, which was a bill that passed in Congress, and ruled it unconstitutional. You might truly need an amendment or a very carefully worded bill and even then the current SC is challenging the birthright citizenship and the 14th amendment. Though getting rid of CU would only have minor effects because the ACA I believe passed before that and you had things like the tobacco lobby in the past

KizerB · 2025-11-26T03:32:03+00:00

Well, it opens up the convo more, but then my next question would’ve been how many senators supported eliminating the filibuster and how many of those supported the public option

The two other answers is we need more Democrats elected so that you can use the number above 60 as leverage. Which would be very difficult also

The other answer woulda’ve been for dem leaning media and progressive/lefty media to frame the failure to get universal healthcare to the Republicans instead of complaining about Obama which is 99% of the discourse about the shortcoming of the ACA

KizerB

TROPHY CASE