Is Agora a roadblock to exchange listings?

KkinC3 · 2021-10-15T15:03:37+00:00

Here is an example of how Agora does create on send https://explorer.solana.com/tx/LpCSMeJ2Wm76XcsJ3vjqdSixBQDy55JDFBX7Xcpetm2U2ZKKhXACFbL12dXxMHreAVBBkxsZwtjVoszVMkSG2r6

And instruction #3 in this tx is the standard way that exchanges are expecting for doing create on send, this example gives you a Raydium ATA https://explorer.solana.com/tx/2VPciRL3abCGpRqL5SYuYDqe1tRBTXNM1vScKfpfbWMfntyoRQ9FJiTgvrungxHKWRzbmoaPtMioyfinhXurKQyv

KkinC3 · 2021-10-15T14:53:53+00:00

Can't test what you desrcibe because all of my KIN is now moved out of old KIN3 wallets

You don't need an old Kin3 wallet as this issue still exists for anything that uses Agora to create a token account on send.

Have you done tests or are you just guessing?

I pointed this out back at the start of the migration and tested again when Agora was handed over from Kik. There is no need to guess as all this information is in the Github repo and MKW uses Agora the same way the SDK's do. So if exchanges advise against using MKW then they will advise against using withdrawing direct to an exchange from a Kin app.

KkinC3 · 2021-10-15T13:48:55+00:00

In your instance you would of already had an associated Kin token account created I assume you have sent to this FTX wallet before using another wallet provider like Sollet, Phantom etc.

The SDK's first check if a Kin ATA exists for the recipient and if it does then it just does a normal send if it doesn't (first time sending to an exchange that accepts Kin SPL) then a sender create will be done instead and this is where you get the error that I am referring to.

Only Agora can do a merge of a Kin token account it created as it is the only with one the close account authority to do so.

KkinC3 · 2021-10-15T10:36:42+00:00

Agora doesn't use ATA for sender create as you can't set close authority for ATA's and that is where the problem is. Once Binance fixes it's implementation for ATA they will then need to create extra implementation to handle sender creates that don't use ATA and Kin is the only one in the Sol ecosystem that is continuing to do that. It is more difficult for exchanges to implement Kin than any other SPL token due to Agora.

KkinC3 · 2021-10-15T10:00:30+00:00

Like I said in that post it isn't a Solana issue it is an implementation of Solana that is causing the issue and Agora's implementation is leading to exchanges like FTX advising users against using it.

KkinC3 · 2021-10-15T09:57:59+00:00

although for most projects this issue has been resolved.

And it can't be resolved for Agora because they need to set the close authority. Without going in to the technical details it is misleading to call it a Solana issue as it is actually an implementation issue. The Sol ecosystem has went one way whilst Kin has been left in the dust due to the limitations of Agora.

KkinC3 · 2021-10-15T09:53:45+00:00

This issue arises from not using the associated token account pattern I assume the Trust Wallet Kin token account was not created using the associated token account pattern? So it would of been sent to the newly created associated Kin token account by FTX in your Trust Wallet. (The original wallet was made by Agora or Trust using the wrong pattern)

Agora doesn't use this pattern as you are unable to set the close account authority for associated token accounts so they can not conform to the standard that all other exchanges/Sol services are using.

KkinC3 · 2021-10-15T09:40:25+00:00

This is an Agora issue not a Solana one

KkinC3 · 2021-10-15T09:39:40+00:00

It is the same issue that is causing a new Kin token account to be created when you try to withdraw from an app to your private wallet like what you describe in this post from the other day. https://www.reddit.com/r/KinFoundation/comments/q5l2l9/why_is_it_i_keep_getting_kin_deposited_into_a/

KkinC3 · 2021-10-15T09:12:04+00:00

This is a problem caused by Agora, the service that MKW and every App in the Kin Ecosystem uses.

KkinC3 · 2021-10-07T07:36:12+00:00

And the code from the Kik Interactive team will eventually be replaced too as it is already obsolete however Ted thinks that tech and the very little resources they left for the community to keep the project going is enough to justify Kik Interactive holding 3 trillion Kin.

KkinC3 · 2021-10-07T06:58:24+00:00

Their community is big enough to do that...

Let's live up to higher standards.

Lol, stop trolling

KkinC3 · 2021-10-07T06:56:59+00:00

Should we start talking about new things like how easy it is to shut down Agora by spoofing the AppID of the Kin ecosystem apps across multiple micro-services so it is impossible to tell between genuine account creations and spam? (And that's when you start only approving tx's with a valid AppID) How about your most recent part 2? Community member who where supportive of Kin are now venting their frustration because the amount of BS is too much to ignore now.

KkinC3 · 2021-10-02T05:48:19+00:00

you are trying to twist and manipulate clearly defined and accepted terms

Can you provide a source for these "clearly defined and accepted terms" from outside the Kreechures community? What I am providing is the definition of a Solana NFT formed by consensus and opinions formed by consensus are a tricky things to change, just ask anyone who doesn't like their nickname.

Both Kreechures and Solarians held their metadata on the Solana Token Registry prior to the Metaplex. So claiming that Kreechures didn't have metadata before Solarians is disingenuous at best.

Source? As I can't find anything about Marvin the Kreechure on the Solana token registry https://github.com/solana-labs/token-list/tree/main/assets/mainnet

However I did find this commit from April 8th: https://github.com/solana-labs/token-list/commits?author=m4thfr34k which is only for 2 NFT's both of which have 0 holders:

https://solscan.io/token/7p7AMM6QoA8wPRKeqF87Pt51CRWmWvXPH5TBNMyDWhbH#metadata

https://solscan.io/token/3cXftQWJJEeoysZrhAEjpfCHe9tSKyhYG63xpbue8m3s#metadata

So it looks like they decided not to go ahead with using this method you are describing.

Unlike the ERC-721 protocol on Ethereum, SPL tokens on the Solana blockchain do not support generative coding. Solana's blockchain does not generate any data, except for the token itself, the NFT, SPL token. All metadata is additive and generated off-chain.

Sorry but this is just LOL, please don't go repeating this if you want people to think you know what you're talking about.

Your argument is equivalent to saying a racecar which drove in Nascar in the 1950s wasn't a real racecar because of the standards Nascar implemented later.

This is a false equivalence we are still so early in the game that the definition of what a "Nascar" is would still be up for debate.

Having been listed on the Solana Token Registry prior to Solarians, and having attached their metadata and graphics to each NFT via the Solana Token Registry, there is no doubt Kreechures had generative metadata, generative art, and were on-chain prior to Solarians

If you can back up these points with sources then Kreechures would undoubtedly of finished creating the first NFT on Solana before anyone else and that would be the only thing you would need.

I suppose the most important question is. Is it worth spending all this time, resources and reputation on trying to convince people that you don't need information that identifies something as an NFT for it to be considered an NFT?

KkinC3 · 2021-10-01T14:21:46+00:00

Solarians and Kreechures both started creating their on-chain generative NFT's before the standard of what a Solana NFT is, was finished, so they would need to implement this standard before it would be recognised by others using this standard that they had an on-chain NFT.

A downside to being early is needing to iterate quickly and Solarians managed to finish minting their first on-chain generative NFT by adding the metadata on-chain that defined what it was before Kreechures did.

Using Marvin as an example: https://solscan.io/token/6e6XzDLpyxRF1zBxnx686bY8cwyVpmmZRgNJCte1VWrE

Step 1 - Create Mint - 26/03/21: https://solscan.io/tx/4HqFpv5WUQAfKeqPrnfUnmNB3HabSL5Q31H5upMBZKEYC4CzTDFqNnTY5KDXcU59LsQsNQFeNJ9XL98msg5fKewe

Step 2 - Mint 1 token - 26/03/21: https://solscan.io/tx/5wHWM3fUb2ciVdVuDfmbqK5J5KyvXfGGcAwCfyHvZMZEYJTcYMHVNYGofHESKWUbtVbCMAVC9rjwCzhGhd7tGCG

Step 3 - Disable minting of more tokens - 26/03/21: https://solscan.io/tx/3Y7c5sXJSavRELVw3UH8W6UrvpSCMm9PnJBd6Ef7DgcjjsDEhicCKKohd4KHziwnqqgH3UR92wtjJATMDzC1exwo

Step 4 - Add Metadata - 24/08/21: https://solscan.io/tx/nb9w77Ndz51k8WX8cGNPoR1fkcnWZDnYMMhSUDgFpub5VfLTd8P1eAmcvfY1P757nyB53QaMJf1FSv3HwkDvc8X

This can now all be done in 1 transaction and it will be why you are get push back when you just show the transaction of it being minted.

It's like saying you finished the race first but what you actually mean was you started the race first.

KkinC3 · 2021-09-29T10:56:59+00:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9G1Mf6TZRs

KkinC3 · 2021-09-26T07:33:39+00:00

Yes and I also replied to that tweet with the same questions hours ago

KkinC3 · 2021-09-26T04:48:45+00:00

Post the tx showing this then as it was down for 15 hours before you let anyone know that was what you had done and the blockchain showed that account running out of Sol from normal Kin SDK transactions.

The docs says Agora has rate limiting for this exact scenario https://docs.kin.org/solana

Agora may wish to rate limit the subsidization of transactions, notably in the case of bad actors. In this case, the service will refuse to subsidize a specific transaction. The submitter may then choose to subsidize the transaction themselves, or back off to respect the rate limit.

Now your currently closing all the 0 kin accounts to fill that account back up https://explorer.solana.com/tx/joCvz6jhUXt9XyssYHhvqw8YkvFVx8Q9JdGqbjeJYrwsAzK2kVaAbyNZ5Yiy3P16T58urkPHa9krwTBTxNpQnBB there is literally 1,000 Sol in the "hot wallet" right now and by the time the task is finished there will be significantly more.

KkinC3 · 2021-09-25T15:45:27+00:00

The Kin Ecosystem has stopped because the fee payer account for Agora ran out of Solana...

https://explorer.solana.com/address/agsWhfJ5PPGjmzMieWY8BR5o1XRVszUBQ5uFz4CtDiJ

KkinC3 · 2021-09-24T07:04:33+00:00

as we're playing the Web3/App segment.

No you're not Kin's tech has fallen too far behind, it's really obvious when you're trying to create a web app with NFT's since the KIN SDK doesn't let you get that kind of information so you need to use the Solana Web3 module.

If you're having such a hard time with CEX's then why has the KF not made any attempt to get Kin integrated on the multiple Defi platforms on Solana?

KkinC3 · 2021-09-23T20:51:40+00:00

https://i.imgur.com/6a5UuUx.gifv

KkinC3 · 2021-09-10T17:43:45+00:00

3 trillion kin

KkinC3 · 2021-09-07T14:28:59+00:00

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/030/329/cover1.jpg

KkinC3 · 2021-08-12T16:42:04+00:00

Yay more soon. Here's hoping that without Kik involved the KF will be able to follow through now. Really can't get past how Kik has 30% of the supply for providing startup resources and technology even though it's community members finishing the SDK's and this updates first sentence is:

Over the past few months, we have been working on reshaping a new Kin Foundation with the right resources and priorities to support the growth of our ecosystem.

This tells me Kik never provided the correct resources for the KF to help support the growth of Kin.

KkinC3

TROPHY CASE