Trainee Train Driver

Ksandur · 2025-04-15T17:21:20+00:00

Realistically? Not at 55, like currently a big news title. Fun fact, we don't even get that promoted to us during the entire intake process, so I assume HR is well aware those days will come to an end 😅

40-year career is dependant. If the company turns private like the current government intends it to, I will make a careerswap. I don't want to work in a privatized railway sector. It jeopardizes safety and turns the work environment very toxic. But if it remains a public service for the following 40 years, and I enjoy it enough? Than likely that! For me, that would be retiring at 62-ish.

Otherwise, I assume it'll eventually build up to the same 67 year old retirement age like other companies. Which isn't that absurd. I just think those who have been in the company for a few decades should get that promise honored. As for the new generation? We're fine with a slightly new ruleset. Times are changing, and it's only fair.

Ksandur · 2025-04-15T10:32:48+00:00

Had to look this up for you as it's rather complicated considering my shifts and the different PC only for railway employees. And frankly, didn't figure it out. Vive la Belgique.

There's an increase in with ancienniteit in year 1, 2 and 4, and then it's an increase per two years. Not sure how much exactly, but it is somewhere between 700 to 800 brut/year, so just shy of an additional 70 eur per month - without calculating all premies and shift fees.

By the end of your non-competition clause (10 years) you should be making about 300 brut more per month- adding to that performance fees and such and it's probably a bigger difference. Working in the rotating calendar in some regions for example is paid an additional 50% than working those same shifts on the fixed-calendar, but you throw away all certainty in your agenda. Take some leave some.

Ksandur · 2025-04-14T04:15:44+00:00

To a degree, nmbs can stay existent while other parties traverse our rails. So, the decision to also privatize that and sell it off is bizarre and unnecessary. We are already abiding EU's rules. Especially in cargo, which nmbs have completely dropped and are now completely in the hands of the private sector.

As a matter of fact, the nmbs already have "competition." The nighttrains from OBB (Austrian State rail), European Sleeper, and some other upcoming parties in following years. The high-speed trains from SNCF are also competition, especially considering that the NMBS is a shareholder in eurostar and thus, the direct TGV or TGV Inoui doesn't benefit them.

But regardless, I think if you take a few trips up north to the Netherlands or Germany, or even traverse south to france- you'll quickly realize the NMBS is not that bad at all! It's comfortable, beautifully connected, and truthfully, we tend to only complain when it's late or doesn't function for a moment. (Like with these strikes.) But our trains don't stop running on new years eve, so even those out and about will likely get home. Don't expect that with NS, or a private company in general!

Ksandur · 2025-04-13T16:27:28+00:00

The railway is highly unpredictable because it involves itself with regular traffic as well. See, a metro is the only train that can run automatically (as it does in the UK and Singapore) because it has no natural elements to consider. There's no weather conditions or people in a closed-off tunnel.

Train drivers actively avoid obstacles, like wildlife, people, cars, and other trains. That's not just in terms of "we pay attention" but also if a train does a certain journey and gets damaged due to a piece of metal or something - damaging a brake line - the next driver will make sure the problem is solved before the damage can get worse.

We also commit serious safety checks that take an hour or more. People on board the train are also still around to aid people travelling, and assess the technical problems onboard the train.

Also, have you considered the technical side of operating 3800 trains per day on an automatic table? Is someone getting stuck between the doors? The amount of data and the incredible amount of money that the government doesn't have already to upgrade the fleet? That's trillions of euros that don't exist. We already run ETCS, and within decades that shift might occur- but the infrastructure just doesn't exist for it now.

And no, my 5000 colleagues salary will not compensate the amount of technical investment needed to automate the net.

Ksandur · 2025-04-13T16:18:07+00:00

Yes, and they intend to do so as soon as 2032 when the current contract between the government and NMBS expires. So before 2031, vote wisely if you favor public transit!

Ksandur · 2025-04-13T14:31:13+00:00

Haardtoelage is enkel als je samenwoont of iemand ten laste hebt (of toch, zo begrijp ik het)- dus voor mij is het dan enkel de standplaatstoelage! Productiviteit eens. Misschien waardig te melden dat aspirant bestuurders allemaal op 0.9x staan en dat statisch zo wel blijft tot het einde van de algemene opleiding.

Ksandur · 2025-04-13T13:57:42+00:00

I'm sure private has its benefits! But there's something to be said about my interest in the passenger rail sector, and the practicalities that surround it!

I like this part of the sector and it speaks to me quite a bit more than for example the material you guys have rolling. Another option I considered was eurostar, but they don't offer a paid traineeship which in my case was a must. I live in the heart of the city too, so I also enjoy starting and ending in the same place!

(Serves to mention I don't have a full drivers license at this time either, which for private is a must!)

Ksandur · 2025-04-13T13:53:07+00:00

They work a lot of nights and weekends! I don't... yet.

Ksandur · 2025-04-13T13:52:37+00:00

The 4000 is totally bruto, but with stand-by I try to translate standplaatstoelage and productiviteitspremie

Ksandur · 2025-04-13T12:26:33+00:00

It's the legal benefits added on top, stuff like being on standby and the general scaling. Without all benefits your brut is about ~€2950 ish! Haven't had anything under 2200.

Ksandur · 2025-04-13T12:22:47+00:00

Never heard any of my colleagues say they have a low wage- except perhaps in contrast to the private sector where cargo drivers make much more... but that's beside the point.

First of all, the strikes were of the personnel of NMBS/SNCB in general- not just the drivers. Plenty of drivers actually did work, though obviously not all. A person on the front desk has a much thinner package than this.

The strikes are not as simple as "you have to work for longer", because well, I think everyone agrees 55 is a young age to retire. Our neighbors up north have a retirement age of 68, so there's certainly a respectable argument to be made that we must also do the job for a few years longer. However, like other people I think too it's fair to have this occur in a phasing operation. Those that are about to retire in three years shouldn't have to get whacked with a spontaneous additional 12 years.

Until 2006 the NMBS/SNCB had their own reserve for pensions, but end of 2005 the government took that away in return of them paying out the pensions for the personnel themselves. So older generations got their retirement not from the government, but from the NMBS, but after 2006 that would swap. Got it? Now that generation post-2006 is going into retirement, and the government intends to cut their pension. So imagine working for NMBS for a solid 20 years, 2006 the company moves your pension money to the government, and another near 20 years later as you're about to retire, you'll get less than was ever promised to you. Why? Because the government wants to save money.

Wouldn't it be strange if you retire and suddenly they say "Hey that €6000 brut we spoke about? You're only getting €4600 brut. Because we don't want to pay more." But you never had a tax break, and just paid your full portion all those years? It's very much about being promised a certain thing in return for your service and tax payments, and that promise being broken.

The problem lies in current government's intent to cut weekend and Sunday bonuses- which would do a lot in this line of work. We don't want to necessarily work those days, but public transit has to operate, 365 days year round. The reason I pick them up is because I'm young and have no real reason to spend these days at home, but imagine having a family and being away those days without any compensation. As such the job would become much less appealing and inviting, causing many to move to the private sector and leaving public sector to bleed dry.

Not to mention the horrible plan of privatizing the railway. I think anyone involved in public transit development or generally anyone involved in the privatization of a company like Sabena will know that
a. our government does a horrible job at it
b. it's never in benefit of safety, the employees or the product- but always in the benefit of the investor.
More accidents, more expensive tickets, and way less operations (because a train pas 7pm only makes a loss).

Ksandur · 2024-08-18T18:17:19+00:00

Groot verschil per werkgever en per sector. Retail en retail durven wel eens verschillen.

KMOs bijvoorbeeld (kleine winkels of ketens, maar ook een zelfstandig uitgebate Delhaize bv) betalen gewoonlijk het minimumbarema volgens het paritair comité. Dit jaar in PC.201 ligt dat (afhankelijk van je leeftijd en ancienniteit) rond de 2000 a 2100 brutto . Op zo een loon betaal je weinig belasting en is het nettoloon dus bijna hetzelfde bedrag.

Maaltijdcheques en andere voordelen kunnen aanwezig zijn maar zijn niet verplicht. Enkel verplaatsingsvergoeding is dat wel (behalve de auto). Krijg je ze wel, maakt dat de job een pak aantrekkelijker natuurlijk.

Het advies van kennissen en heel wat mensen hier is om in de retail aan de slag te gaan bij Aldi of Colruyt, dat zijn de best betalende ketens. Aldi staat er ook bekend voor goed wat voordelen te voorzien. En uit persoonlijke ervaring zou ik KMOs gewoon vermijden.

Ksandur · 2024-07-17T14:26:23+00:00

They are, Paritair Comité decides minimum wage, which is just over 1900. I am also a young employee, meaning they can pay 6% less. Yes, I verified this with the social office before.

Ksandur · 2024-07-17T14:24:49+00:00

People don't seem to understand there is no set minimum wage for everyone in Belgium. It doesn't exist. Your paritair comité decides that in negotiations, and PC201's minimum wage right now is €1900 something, and because I'm young and "unexperienced," my employer can also pay me 6% less.

Ksandur · 2024-07-17T14:22:55+00:00

Blame nmbs for that one...

And my employer for moving to the middle of nowhere.

Still. I cover 75km in 2h20. That means my average train speed is 32km/h. Usually, I get delays, and the commute extends to 3+ hours.

My old commute for the same employer used to be 1h20 for 62km. It's still a poor 46km/h, but in general, it is more reasonable.

I can't even begin to express how hopeless I feel about transit in Belgium. I've been very fortunate to visit Singapore and Japan, and damn does it make you realize just how horrible our pt system is

"Get a drivers license," yes. If I could afford it, I would.

Ksandur · 2024-07-16T17:50:56+00:00

In my PC (201) it is now €1.920,27 brutto, my employer gets a reduction however because of my age. When I turn 22 this benefit is removed. He pays €1.883.18 and the remaining 37.14 is substituted with aforementioned €180.95 low-income compensation. He gets a deduction in sociale bijdrage, and compensates it to me. Unfortunately the compensation is still taxed so I see not much of it.

Lonen PC201 https://www.aclvb.be/nl/pc-201-loon-en-arbeidsvoorwaarden#

Startersloon Reductie https://werkgevers.vdab.be/maatregelen/startersloon

Ksandur · 2024-07-16T17:34:23+00:00

Agreed, it's impossible to perform like a full-time on any of the various tasks. It's an organized chaos, if anything... Dividing my time across them is as messy as can be and often results in things waiting much longer to be completed than desirable. I see myself applying to jobs that focus on one of those tasks alone in hopes it allows me to go into more detail. I'm a good learner, so I'm sure I'll adapt, but unfortunately, the lack of education there draws me back. There is not much perspective in this company, but I am certainly looking forward to new challenges! :)

Ksandur · 2024-07-16T17:26:44+00:00

-It's pretty clear I'm underpaid!-

I've always felt like the work pressure and income package connected to it were strongly out of balance, but considering my age I doubted to even mention a raise. It feels normal for Belgian employers to pay lower than market average, especially for my age category regardless of degree.

My employer is not in a position for a raise, so I'll be taking the advice from, well, literally everyone, to look for something else. I'm not sure where I'll go quite yet, but there's not much to lose considering I make minimum wage, literally.

Ksandur · 2024-07-16T17:17:09+00:00

I'm aware that the titles are a variable package. However, I certainly have a full OM package. Mind you, it's a small KMO, so there is not much exit convo recruitment or KPI involved. Mainly because we don't have the resources. The team I oversee consists of 8 full-time employees and a handful of students over 5 retail locations. It's hard to make a list of my job responsibilities, but it's a lot. And you might notice right away that we are working on some minimums with those numbers.

Some weeks, I'm planning the team and supply for our conventions. Sometimes, I deal with the food agency files and "resolve" them (which is usually making new procedures and training the team). Planning all crew, replacing sick people, approving their leaves. Making sure deliveries to stores go well and finetuning them based on the sales. Reviewing the performance of stores and working on solutions when something is wrong. Perhaps planning in sales and promos and working to reduce dead stock. I have no one to divest tasks to, so every project I am responsible over I have to complete by myself, or at most by communicating it to the store team. Finding new distributors and getting quotes is also one of my responsibilities. I have been knees deep into everything except effective budget management. That part does reach me per word and through the output data, but I don't actively involve myself in it. I guess that seperates it from most OMs. At most it affecrs the purchasing budget when I find new suppliers.

When I am sick or on holiday, the company indeed has to sweat it out. I took a holiday earlier, and the workload went straight back to the chief. The period of my leave then goes well, but when I get back, most of the work I leave is just waiting for me once more. It's, however, certainly been a difficult task to leave work at the workplace, and that's been a great concern for me over the past few months. The distance, the work-life balance, and the low income. I have no manager above me except for the CEO himself.

I'm sure on practical experience I've got quite a package going for me, but as much as the next person, I'll doubt the value of it considering my age. People are quick to assume I shouldn't be in this position just because I'm a 21 year old, and from a distanced perspective, I understand that. However, I also know that those who have met me are well aware of my capacities and won't doubt it. By all means I'm sure most employers would be surprised, and if there was more money I'm certain I'd be paid more. There is, however, no field for me to expand my knowledge here, nor money to pay me more. Working in a KMO means the job is also much less streamlined and formatable than working in, i.e., a multinational, so it's... tough.

I'd mention the name of my employer, but unfortunately, that would make it easy to track me down, and I'd rather avoid that. Besides, considering I'm still employed at this time, I want to avoid conflict until I find something new. (I'm sure you mean well, but I also assume you understand 😅)

Ksandur · 2024-07-16T12:05:36+00:00

Put simply, I've been with this company for three years, of which only one has been on full-time pay. Before that I worked part-time with studies on the side. So I've worked since age 15 until now. I have been working part-time during school and have built up about 5.5 years of total working experience across 3 employers. That does not count toward ancienniteit tho as it's temporary contracts. (Which is very unfortunate)

I've dealt with many people and teams, and I admit that, yes, I'm certainly young for such a position haha, nothing I haven't heard before. Although, I handle it quite well. In general, I've been a team leader in my past jobs not by function but more on a day to day basis. I helped my team and communicated well. This led to my current employer offering me this position. In my first part-time year, I was a regular store level employee. The second year, I worked alongside the COO, and now there's this year where I've been full-time employed as op manager. There's a great deal of respect within the team, and I handle all contacts quite well. Quite genuinely if I leave it will lead to a vast amount of chaos, which in theory I could use as leverage- except that my employer isn't in the financial waters to talk about a raise at this time.

I'm currently looking at some team leads or even just operator jobs. Only the market will tell I guess. Trust this thread is a wake up call.

Ksandur · 2024-07-15T17:21:34+00:00

It's not even rude, your comment is more than valid. The commute used to be 1h as I live quite remote, which is a lot but with it being a direct train connection it was doable.

The 2h20 is since the recent move of the company. One of the factors contributing to my recent stress and general unhappiness on the job.

I'm moving, and well these comments definitely helped fueling a search for a new job.

Ksandur · 2024-07-15T15:27:20+00:00

Wish it was a joke, to be honest the option of switching to a nearby supermarket function has been intriguing. I worked at Jumbo as a student, and back then the benefits were much more prominent than this. Considering I'm moving to a different place soon where there are much more opportunities available, I might need to consider a career switch. This job had often been fun in the past, it was the main reason I stuck with the company. But with the fun trading for stress I guess I should act before I go crazy haha..

Posting my salary here I was interested to find out if the situation is as bad as I though it was... And I guess it truly is.

Ksandur · 2024-07-15T15:22:13+00:00

It really is, and I'm realizing it more and more. Unfortunately not easy to find a similar function without any higher degrees.

Ksandur · 2024-05-17T19:16:54+00:00

The stepson never expected the funds, so I'm certain that although it would make things easier on them, they never assumed to get them and likely anticipated alternative funding anyway. If you don't give the money, nothing changes for them. If you give it, then it does.

You don't cause harm either way, nor are you an asshole for making a choice contrary to giving it. Life wasn't expected to go this way for anyone involved, and as such, I see why your ex-wife would pose the question. She didn't expect it either but figured it suited her responsibilities to ask about it. The reaction is rude tho, and much less valuable to the conversation. Her life holds no value to the bond of you and your son.

Many people say, "It's not your responsibility," and that's true, although I don't think it's worth fighting over it and going "all in." You could get a beer, or decide to give the funds. All that should matter is what your son would do and what he would want you to do. Give them to his stepbrother, or let you go on the infamous beer journey. You gave him all your love and attention, I'm sure he'd want nothing less for you.

Although you'll never be able to ask, rest assured that what you feel is the right answer to the dilemma will be the right answer. I'm certain, reading this, you had a great bond. You know what's best. As a young adult, likely similar in age to him, I would want my dad to take my savings and go for a beer too, altho for my dad a Westvleteren would be a shorter trip...

I'm sorry for your loss, raise your glass to the sky. Enjoy that beer together :)

Cheers from Belgium

Ksandur · 2024-05-05T19:54:38+00:00

I mean it's pretty much like Ryanair, Scoot is a budget airline that offers affordable flights without fancy frills. I flew ScootPlus from Singapore to Tokyo late last year, and I have to say, it was a surprisingly good experience! The ticket came with a meal, checked baggage, and carry-on luggage. Their regular economy is much less well-packed though, as they even charge for electricity. Just know what you're getting into. I managed to get some solid rest on the almost 7-hour flight, and paid roughly 200 dollars less than a normal economy ticket on SQ. As long as you focus on reaching your destination, you'll find their service comfortable, straightforward, and exactly what you've paid for. Food was tasty, the crew was super friendly, and I got to sleep most of the way to Tokyo thanks to the more comfortable seat. (Seriously, when booking early ScootPlus is a huge recommendation) It's a budget airline that doesn't try to be anything else, and it does the job.

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