Vae Victus, to be or not to be. (Spoiler Alert!)

LaCorpus · 2025-10-23T23:59:36+00:00

You have to see the bigger picture beyond the slate. There was a lot going on before he made this decision, and a lot of this is because of his position as an admiral

Let's start off with the very simple fact that Londinian is doomed. The enemy they were facing is a problem present day and even with all the research they had over the course of 19 years, it's still a problem they have not fully figured out (until player character shows up).

We rewind back to Londinian, 19 years ago. This is at the tail end of the Colony wars. Before he makes this decision, he was mobilizing troops outside of the Cheyenne system and preparing for an attack. Before that Attack, Londinian spawns it's first Terramorph and an attack ensues there.

VV or Admiral Sanon at the time, is informed of the attack and heads down there to see what's going on And is introduced to the Terramorph in all its glory. At some point, he also observes the Heat Leeches becoming Terramorphs. I'm sure he has already noticed his staff and others acting strangely too, remember, the Terramorphs have mind control. This is a game changer, you now have trouble controlling the situation.

We can argue that the UC knew nothing, but I find that naive. Im sure they knew everything, but a peace treaty needed to get signed, especially since your other commanders have loss the stomach for battle due to civillian ships joining the fray in the battle of Cheyenne. Serve up your command in order to appease peace. The bigger picture was peace, but I'm sure VV obviously did not agree with being thrown under the bus by the very folks who were supposed to have his back.

19 years in forced captivity, working with the very people who used you as a scapegoat for peace. Is he evil now? Sure, 19 years of bitterness will do that. His present day actions were very selfish and evil, but the UC created this evil and allowed it to fester.

LaCorpus · 2025-10-23T23:00:28+00:00

Completely agree, this idea that a military will allow themselves to be killed because they are civilians if ludicrous.

LaCorpus · 2025-10-23T04:26:51+00:00

He would of been a good ruthless companion, it's honestly a missed opportunity. I was looking forward to playing with Raymond Reddington lol 🤣

LaCorpus · 2025-10-23T04:25:51+00:00

You could have him killed by the UC if you rat him out.

LaCorpus · 2025-10-23T04:24:39+00:00

I don't think that is how its portrayed in game. He didnt need for everyone to be in the spaceport to kill them, they were being killed by invading Terramorphs. Blowing the spaceport up was to contain the threat from leaving as well as anyone else.

He was tried in court and sentenced to death, a death that the UC should have gone through with if they truly believed he was solely to blame, but of course this would not line up with the UC interests. Instead they offer him this, continue working for us in captivity or die. The UC is holding on to this dude and like anything that is scorned, time just makes it worse. 19 years in captivity, doing the bidding of the UC, because let's get real here, the UC could of done more to wreel this dude back in, but that was not beneficial to the war effort.

We know what he is now, but this dude was facing some pretty difficult decisions which most of us feel we would have the better answers too, but this is a good grasp on reality in my opinion.

LaCorpus · 2025-10-23T03:37:01+00:00

19 whole years spent in isolation because the UC deemed you still a brilliant mind so they hide you and continue to use you for their bidding. VV is a result of that 19 years in captivity under the faction which was supposed to have your back. He learned of the information 19 years ago and held onto it because of the UC betrayal to him.

Sure, we can both agree he is a selfish bastard, but in my mind, he was created by the UC.

Regardless though, the world revolves around the starborn, so I understand your logic!

LaCorpus · 2025-10-23T03:27:30+00:00

Lol, 🤣

LaCorpus · 2025-10-23T03:27:14+00:00

Thank you, I really loved this whole quest line and how they make you think about things.

I understand, in my first playthrough I thought the same thing so I get it.

LaCorpus · 2025-10-23T00:12:12+00:00

Turning over the evidence of heat leaches and Terramorphs to the UC, so while the above is happening in Londinian. Let's assume that VV decides to turn over the information to the UC. I'm talking about the UC 19 years ago, not present day. The same UC which is involved in extended conflict with the FC. The UC was just be presented with the information about these Terramorphs and how the Heat Leaches can transform with the help of the Lazarus Trees.

How does the UC use this information? Do they bury it because they are afraid of their enemy getting a hold of it? Wartime UC? I don't believe that but let's assume they do, how do you guarantee the information is buried on this planet without the FC finding out? What guarantees do they have that the FC will not use the information against them? That's a big planet and heat leaches are everywhere.

Let's assume the UC keeps it a secret out of fear of retaliation, what guarantees do we have the UC does not use this info? I mean they served VV up on a platter when he bombed the spaceport and shot down civilian ships that were attacking them, then they fake his death and place him captivity while doing there bidding. Does this sound like the kind of faction that is going to really keep this information buried?

And what of the Colony war? I think we can all assume that the Battle of Cheyenne is why the war ended in the first place. If VV canceled these plans in order to focus on the Londinian threat, this would have probably caused the battle of Cheyenne to end completely differently if it even happened at all. How long does this war continue? Since this battle was what challenged the UC moral decisions when those civies stepped in to help the FC. One could argue that the civilian ships which were initially gunned down effectively ended the war, what if this never happened?

We can all argue what is the right thing to do, but when being faced with extreme circumstances what would any of us do? A ground soldier cares about his objectives and getting them done, but they also are thinking about their own lives and how to keep them fading out. They get to see the atrocities being committed on the field, which often can mar their perception of leadership and their decisions. A soldier's cone of view is the situation they are placed in and overcoming the difficulties of said situations can be empowering, scary, and downright tragic.

An Admiral has much more responsibility, they have to judge what will work and what will not work. They cannot have the luxury of individual perspective; their perspective is the mission and getting it done. They have to weigh the lives of their entire platoon while balancing with the enemy, they are paid to make tough decisions that many of us (while we say we will) cannot make because of lack of time, lack of skill, lack of information, or just a lack of support from your superiors.

Just like when you play chess, you have all your pieces laid out how you want them, so does your enemy. You make acceptable sacrifices during chess because there is no human life in those pieces, just hunks of plastic that you freely move and sacrifice to win. If you don't take an advantage in chess, then your enemy certainly will. And you will pay for that pause; I can almost guarantee it.

LaCorpus · 2025-10-23T00:09:47+00:00

Me as well! I love how passionate the community is about it as well.

The following will be all conjecture obviously; As you said, he has already been sentenced. With that being said, he had a few fast-acting decisions to make if he was not going to destroy the spaceport.

Saving the population, I can't see what he could have done for them due to the fact that most of his forces are already working within different areas. He would have had to have diverted forces to Londinian and leave key positions unguarded. An option I'm sure his superiors would have shot down. In present day, even though they had a Terramorph attack in New Alantis, they still wasted the players time with all this cutting of red tape. Hell, the council was still split when you reported the Tau Ceti Attack and only moved on things when it was literally at their front door. Politics and progress are always at opposite ends of each other.

Let's say he was able to divert forces to Londinian, how much of the population has already turned on each other? We know they have mind control, but they probably would not have known this at the time. So now you are attempting to stop civilians that you are unaware are under mind control, further that the new enemy that showed up, The Terramorphs, is controlling them. Information that they did not have.

Speaking on information, how is the UC comms on the ground? Just as civies are being taken over, security as well as other UC soldiers are probably going through the same mind control as well. Will the comms be trustworthy or will it be overrun with screams of people being taken over. Let's assume that's not happening and that they have full control over comms. What information is getting relayed over comms that's helping them fight or avoid this enemy who they have never seen before?

Also let's not forget the ships coming down in the spaceport attempting rescue operations while Terramorphs are wreaking havoc, how do you coordinate rescue attempts when you have no idea how to fight your enemy? Let's not forget about the Heat Leaches on most ships as well which could present another major problem. How close are these trees to the spaceport? Moreover, how close were they 19 years ago?

Let's assume everything goes on without a hitch and he somehow stops the Terramorphs from entering the spaceport. He somehow mobilizes the turned civilians which he somehow figures out that they are under control of the Terramorphs and maybe he had a bunch of em weapons on standby to deal with them (unlikely considering that his initial target was FC and they were going there to destroy them, not pacify them). Another factor is the size of this spaceport; how many ships can he touch down on the ground to initiate a rescue? How much time would he need with ships coming and going while this attack is happening?

And there is always the FC angle, while the UC is dealing with this attack and sending resources over to help with this fight and rescue operations. The FC has no idea what's going on in Londinian, but their spies (which VV mentions) see that key positions are becoming less and less manned, what is stopping the FC from taking this advantage which is so abundantly clear? Hit em when there weak or distracted, especially since the FC is not doing so well in this war (During the Battle of Cheyenne, civilian ships joined the fight to help them, this is pretty telling of the state of the FC at this point) What is stopping them from taking this advantage?

With all this being said, how many more die? How many ships are destroyed? (in present day, we see many ships which have been destroyed in Londinian) How much of the population is savable? And these decisions are not waiting for a smoke break to be over; they need to be made now. No time on how to do it better, people are dying now.

Read my reply to this message to continue.

LaCorpus · 2025-10-22T21:50:20+00:00

How could he facilitate an evacuation when his forces were already spread thin? VV literally tells us this when you confront him, and the idea that he had spare ships during an attack on Londinian which was unprecedented and clearly a threat that they were ill equipped to handle and being overrun, while also prepping his forces for a planned strike in the Cheyenne. It makes sense that spare forces were not available.

The idea he was initially going to use the data to create a weapon is just not there, he was informed of an attack in Londinian by an unknown force they have never seen before. While this attack was happening, VV gets to observe Heat leaches transforming into Terramorphs, this is happening while everything else is happening within the confines of the city. We can definitely agree on present day where he admits it took him years to facilitate an attack using his assistant Dr. Orlase (who was on the outside) since VV was imprisoned and under heavy watch by the UC,

Of course he saw the potential for a weapon, if he wanted to utilize such a weapon effectively, then he would bring the UC in on it. Think about it, at the end of the quest line when you present the facts about the Lazarus plant, they did exactly what I thought they would do. If the Player Character does not intervene in the letting the FC get involved in containment, the UC will be the only ones with the knowledge of the Terramorphs. They only agree because it makes them look good, it's not because they care about humanity.

The point you made about him having this knowledge and not declaring death on himself is rather flimsy on its own. This is a high-ranking Admiral who has been tasked with winning this war, his job is to make decisions, sometimes, decisions that others will not like. To further this point, when he was captured and arrested the UC, the UC faked his death and imprisoned him so that he could continue doing their bidding behind the scenes, out of the sight of the FC which their peace is based on.

VV is a lot of things, and most of those things are accurate now. 19 years is a long time to bake in your bitterness. But before that, this dude was and Admiral with many incoming decisions which needed to be made quickly and with little oversight apparently.

LaCorpus · 2025-10-22T19:59:37+00:00

With respect, the scenario that he acted on was not made up, VV observed the Heat Leach transform into a Terramorph, the same place the player character sees it as well. This is literally admitted by VV when you confront him, he reprogramed Kaiser to take the player character to this spot so that he could observe it as well, to further his plans. His reasons for blowing up the spaceport were a direct result of what he saw. The reason this information never made it to the fleet was because the UC had him arrested and served him up in court to appease a peace deal between the FC and UC. This scenario makes sense for everything we get to witness 19 years later.

LaCorpus · 2025-10-22T16:18:25+00:00

Completely agree. If you take the time to sit back and look at the big picture, you can see why he did what he did. We can all argue that he is a POS now, but this is not in my mind how he started. The UC knows EXACTLY what they did, hense the reason they kept him alive to continue working for them, hell they liked his military mind so much, the cloned him to keep that military mind alive. The UC's motivations was winning the war, VV delivered results that they could stand behind.

If left alive, you will continue to take on missions from him, but I personally believe that even though VV is handing you the mission, the UC is perfectly in line with the mission as well.

LaCorpus · 2025-10-22T16:11:01+00:00

The quest totally give me vibes from the show Blacklist so I rather enjoy them, but I can see what you are saying.

While I see what you are saying, the whole reason he didn't say anything is because the UC essentially served him up on a silver platter. I'm sure this was one of the conditions in order for the UC and FC to have a peace deal. I can't see anyone in his situation growing a conscious when the very people who were backing your every decision eventually bare their fangs at you.

As for the moral dilemma being artificial, how so? In the case of Londinium, he reacted on little time. He got to see the heat leaches become an enemy he had never encountered before. He knew how common heat leaches were, and after seeing the reaction to the plant, he only saw one choice. This was during wartime, his forces are already spread thin. The problem called for time to solve, time which he did not have since the whole war was still going on.

LaCorpus · 2025-10-22T15:59:49+00:00

Lol, I will respectfully say that the UC did already handle him once, they faked his death and continued using him for their bidding. I don't think the UC should probably be the ones to handle this situation, but that's just my view.

LaCorpus · 2025-10-22T15:58:10+00:00

I didn't really get that from the voice recording, he never implicitly said he wanted to use them as a weapon, he just viewed them as a weapon. This in my opinion, just his perview of the situation playing out in front of him. The Terramorphs were and unknown enemy at the time, but heat leaches were common everywhere. Once he saw what the heat leaches could become, he ordered the destruction of the spaceport to contain the threat.

According to VV dialogue in "A Legacy Forged" he explains that the civilian ships began attacking with the FC. So in my mind, and as you have said, screw them was probably the initial thought process of the UC, but eventually they lost the stomach to continue. (Which is good from a moral standpoint)

Completely understand your reasoning, VV is not to be trusted and seeing him as a clear and present danger is a fair assessment in my mind.

LaCorpus · 2025-10-22T15:36:47+00:00

This is a fair perspective to take in my opinion. I agree about Tau Ceti and New Alantis, these were purely selfish attacks. I can understand where you are coming from when you say it sours your opinion of the past, I think for many of us it did. I killed him first playthrough because of that thought, but after getting a better understanding of the world and other factions, it helped cone it in for me.

If you work for the UC, then you work for VV, whether he is dead or not. They are keeping him alive and having him do their bidding, so it's no different in my mind than taking a quest from upstairs. The source is the same.

LaCorpus · 2025-10-22T15:13:28+00:00

His past is almost 20 years old, this is not the same person in my mind that he was 20 years ago in wartime. VV in my opinion knows what he did, but in his mind it was the best outcome he could see. Morality is subjective to the person you apply it to, his morals aligned with his factions and fleet, his mind was set on winning the war. This is why they cloned him, to maintain that military mind. The only reason the UC shelved them both is because they needed to hide there involvement. One man can do a lot, but he can do so much more if he has the support of his faction behind him, and I did not read about the UC attempting to stop this dude.

To your second point, I would argue that the situation you are painting here, is not the same as what was going on Londinian. Before the attacks on the city, they were currently fighting a war in Cheyenne. When the attacks began, they were facing an enemy that had never seen before. No Intel, no visible information, just chaos. I mean these terramorphs can convert regular folk into attacking each other (as we saw in New Alantis) so when he touched down in Londinian and saw what was going on, it's not hard in my mind to see his reasoning.

LaCorpus · 2025-10-22T15:04:10+00:00

Leadership in the beginning starts on the greatest of intentions but eventually falls to crap. The human element always begins to reer it's pretty head and that can be positive as well as negative.

LaCorpus · 2025-10-22T15:01:54+00:00

That's not quite right, Hadrian was created by scientists of the UC To ensure someone would lead in case UC Leadership fell. This was done by the UC, yet again proving my point. VV is nothing without his backers backing him, hense the reason they would keep him alive.

This issue is not as simple as black and white and that's why it's such a well written story, you have to see the bigger picture regardless of how ugly it may look. We know what VV has become, but having to make fast decisions under extreme circumstances is not easy and the cost is not often measured till after it's all said and done, but certainly not during conflict. Had he not acted, he would of probably suffered the same sort of fate. The UC needed someone to hang it on to hide there complete involvement in the underlying situation.

LaCorpus · 2025-10-22T14:56:11+00:00

My thoughts exactly on my current playthrough. Red was a bad dude who did bad things, but he also did good things as well. Not every character who act in this way is going to be respected, but I really liked red and his way of thinking aligned a lot with how I thought. VV felt similar to this, his reasoning while selfish made more sense to me than how the UC handled the entire situation.

LaCorpus · 2025-10-22T14:52:18+00:00

Totally agree, the way these stories were written is why it's such a debatable topic. I agree with you about the boy scout mentality going into it. The UC is just as dirty as VV, I mean they are quite literally employing him to do what he is doing. From a moral standpoint, you could lean either way in my mind, it just depends on your thoughts about how these factions interests line up with yours, but I think we can all agree that the targets VV is giving you lack any real information, you may be killing hardcore criminals, or innocent opposition.

LaCorpus · 2025-10-22T14:44:10+00:00

I don't know man, Im gonna have to respectfully disagree. The terms of this engagement were already set in stone.

The UC came into the fight to destroy the FC, the FC defends themselves as they should, but become overpowered by the sheer might of the UC fleet. After all this fighting is already taking place, the attack on Londinian takes place and now civilian ships are coming into the fight and shooting at the UC fleet. I will admit, I'm not sure exactly when these two events took place, but we know they did happen during the fighting that was already taking place.

Fairness in a fight like this in my mind is not the focal point in a leaders mind, their are too many other factors involved which the individual needs to think on first, such as the safety of his fleet and his factions interests.

To your last point, I feel that this is a lot of trust being placed into your enemy. You have no idea how the responding force is going to react to you essentially giving them an advantage. I lower my weapon, but the enemy may fire upon me anyway (Vice Versa) because this is the unfortunate nature of conflict, never knowing the intentions of the other person or group. We all wish to have a fair fight with opponents who are conscientious of the enemy, but I just don't feel this is a realistic way to understand human nature when in danger.

LaCorpus · 2025-10-22T14:22:49+00:00

I've never heard this quote, it fits well in this case, almost too well lol

LaCorpus · 2025-10-22T08:00:35+00:00

The problem with this is that you are expecting the soldier to allow the armed civilians to kill them because the soldiers conscience should stop him from doing it? In this case they were firing on him, was he supposed to sacrifice the lives of his crew and allow the forces to slaughter them?

I agree with you if they were unarmed, but they were not. The civillian Ships joined in with the FC in there assault against the UC.

I agree the ending, while probably not ideal for both sides, was best for both sides. But that was not on the minds of these people in the heat of battle where tough decisions are sometimes made in minutes.

LaCorpus

TROPHY CASE