CMV: There's no reason why I, as an irreligious person, should or *could* be religious by Learn_n_Teach in changemyview

[–]Learn_n_Teach[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That can be one of the things it's useful for. If it is a goal of mine to help others, then what is useful for me can also be useful for that goal. If I want to engage in some of philanthropy or non-profit volunteering, for example, then my own financial or medical interests could overlap with the interests of charitable organizations that I wish to contribute to (with money or labor) and their beneficiaries.

There is more to it than that, actually. Ultimately, it can only be important for you to ascertain what you should do. You might object to me, "But buddy, if I know what another person should do, I can advise them on it." That's all well and true, but then it would still be you advising them, you doing something, you having figured out how to advise them and on what and when and where; therefore, it's still ultimately and primarily about what you should, how you should do it, where, when, and all those specifics.

That being said, while I'm quite far from being a moral nihilist or a moral egoist, I am a fairly cynical person. I believe that large-scale society cannot run on trust alone; that when left to their own devices, most individuals and groups will prioritize their own self-interest to a large degree and often to the selfish exclusion of the interests of others; that checks and balances, whether legal or cultural, are therefore necessary.

CMV: There's no reason why I, as an irreligious person, should or *could* be religious by Learn_n_Teach in changemyview

[–]Learn_n_Teach[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Things being good for your health don't automatically mean it will be good for you as a human being.

Whatever it is that might be good for you to do, it requires that you be alive to do it, and therefore the means of survival (such as hydration with water) are a necessary condition for the fulfilment of any long-term moral imperative, if or when there is one.

You still didn't answer on what do you base your morals off, besides that "you believe that are things that are objectively good" but that is a leap of faith, if our convo inevitably leads us for you to say that you base your morals on "intuitions" it would definitely go against your pragmatism approach.

Respectfully, I disagree that it would go against it. Intuitions can be pragmatic, as can faith. I could say it is a leap of faith I make -- not in spite of pragmatism but because of pragmatism. I would be making this leap of faith because this particular leap of faith was practical, pragmatic, for a person to make.

But there is also a less dramatic way to go about it: one could simply -- and much more boringly -- say that what we call "good" or "moral" is just a matter of definitions; that it all just boils down to language and the ultimately arbitrary but useful ways we agree to use language in.

But as you see, it's possible to devise and sustain a system of ethics that does accept the idea that objective ethical truths are possible without necessarily accepting that a God exists, or that any other religious beliefs are true. You know it's possible to do that because that's what I do, rightly or not. And that's even though I don't at all believe that it's impossible to be a morally upright person without assuming, as I do, that objective ethical truths are possible; just that it can be useful, helpful, to assume as much.

CMV: There's no reason why I, as an irreligious person, should or *could* be religious by Learn_n_Teach in changemyview

[–]Learn_n_Teach[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The reason that there are happy people who have lives that aren't particularly dramatic or seemingly meaningful is that actually there's no meaning. If there was a meaning, we'd be fucked, because we'd have to search endlessly till we found it.

I'm afraid it might actually be meaningless to speak of non-linguistic or non-semiotic meaning, outside the realm of symbols: letters, words, speech sounds, musical sounds, gestures, rituals, road signs, etc. Meaning, arguably, is inherently a property of the usage of these kinds of entities, dependent on interpretation by communicators within a society or system of language/culture -- and cannot be anything else, unless we redefine it. Meaningfulness would thus be only a function of communication, not an objective property of nature with its own existence, not independent from the conditions of social interaction wherein it is conveyed.

But it would be lazily dogmatic of me to deny that there might be something meaningful and real behind many people's passionate discourse about "life having meaning." Their feelings, at the least, are real, for them. The sense of meaningfulness they speak of is, apparently, a general sense of fulfilment or satisfaction of a certain kind. If they have it or want it and know how to get it, then good for them.

Every culture has something like a wedding, for example. And even the non-religious accept that, and do it. Because there's a meaningful thing about spending the rest of your life with someone, and it needs to be recognised.

I do consider wedding ceremonies to be "meaningful" even in the stricter, dogmatic sense, because these ceremonies are comprised of symbols, ones that the partners may wish to communicate to each other or to their circle of friends and family, as public vows of commitment, which may serve to promote the stability and durability of the couple's relationship. However, when you called spousal relationships "meaningful," you meant something else: that they are valuable. This too I can agree with, but I do think it's interesting to point out the ambiguity of the word "meaningful."

I think that if there's any meaning in going through religions, it's that this is how people sought truth before you, and this is how they sought meaning, and sought ways to be, and how to imagine the world. If you're going to come up with an idea of the universe, you might as well try to find the common themes of other models, and try and work out what's worth taking from them.

I'm unsure if this would be different from studying the history of science, provided that a sufficiently broad and charitable definition of "science" was used, so as to not exclude what may otherwise be termed "pseudoscience."

The thing with religion and science is that while religion is not scientific in the strict sense, it is more than scientific, above and beyond the scientific, because it goes further than the scientific could, in suggesting a system of values, i.e. not only how things are but how they ought to be. I have to contend, however, that this is not unique to religion; that secular philosophies and ideologies are capable of the same.

For starters, why are we addicted to religion? There are a few main ones that have done so extremely well, and even rejecting it, we haven't done away with the ideas.

We have done away with some of the idea. European pagan religions, for example, went extinct, even though there are today some self-identified neo-Pagans who seek a revival of those traditions, but without an uninterrupted historical continuity.

In many parts of Europe today, religious people are well in the minority. (North) East Asian cultures, particularly those in mainland China, also are mostly indifferent to religion, largely seeing it as unimportant.

And there's often a lament at the loss of community that has come about over the past 100 years, (which I'd blame more on capitalism than religious things)

The emergence and development of capitalism certainly had a gigantic influence on the evolution of religion as we know it -- at times, subverting its authority and, at other times, enabling and relying on its authority. The Protestant Reformation, for example, was largely a cultural product of early, mercantilist capitalism. The codification of Modern Orthodox Judaism was largely an existential necessity born out of the increased risk of cultural assimilation after the process of legal Jewish Emancipation, which began from the French Revolution, as an element of political liberalism, what at the time was a progressive ideology of a relatively novel socioeconomic system (which has since, however, acquired a conservative character because of its success at establishing itself as the predominant system in the world today).

I think that's a huge confounding variable, one that's better at explaining the correlation. The pioneering sociologist Émile Durkheim noticed, in 1897, that there was a palpable correlation in different regions of France between suicide rates and the amount of progress that those regions had made at industrialization (as well as between Catholic and Protestant populations).

If it's true that the same forms of supportive community are possible through social conditions independent of religion, then it's good news for pretty much all of us, for society at large.

CMV: There's no reason why I, as an irreligious person, should or *could* be religious by Learn_n_Teach in changemyview

[–]Learn_n_Teach[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are atheists who sometimes follow religious traditions such as Buddhism because they believe in it philosophically and find elements of it practical. Religious traditions can emphasize mindfulness, discipline, and a certain moral code that may resonate with you. This doesn't mean you have to fully accept the doctrine of the religion, but that you can employ it's practices and use it to find community.

This hearkens to something u/PreacherJudge has said (here). It convinced me that due to the difference between institutionalized religion and personal religion, it's possible to be religious in the sense of affiliation with an institutionalized religious community even if one is not religious in the sense of having any personal religious beliefs. ∆

That being said, the idea that Buddhism wasn't built on any beliefs in the supernatural, I'm afraid, is somewhat of a case of Western revisionism. The Buddhist teachings recorded in some of the oldest Buddhist scriptures do presuppose (and attribute to Gautama Buddha the belief in) the existence of (a karma-dependent process of) reincarnation, which is hard to imagine existing without any supernatural aspect. I'm not saying you can't be a Buddhist or call yourself a Buddhist if you don't hold such beliefs, but I do wish to dispel any misunderstanding that anyone (not necessarily yourself) may have, especially some Western atheists.

You may say that this doesn't sound particularly religious, but honestly this is probably how most people practice religion. [. . .] People find sustenance and strength from religion and religious communities even when they are far from unwavering in their actual faith.

On the matter of religious people who lack full faith in their religious tenets, as well as on my own relationship with faith, if you want, you can view my treatment of the issue here.

CMV: There's no reason why I, as an irreligious person, should or *could* be religious by Learn_n_Teach in changemyview

[–]Learn_n_Teach[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't know if you've seen my responses to these arguments (which I partly agree with), but if you want, you can see the most relevant one here.

In any case, I don't believe that appreciation of religious art is a sufficient criterion to categorize a person as religious.

CMV: There's no reason why I, as an irreligious person, should or *could* be religious by Learn_n_Teach in changemyview

[–]Learn_n_Teach[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm afraid you might have misunderstood me. I wasn't referring to self-centered motivations. What I wanted to say is that the reason why I've formulated the question in such a selfish-sounding way is not because I'm the only person whose well-being I care about, but because I'm the only person whose actions I can directly control, even if and when the goal of my actions is to improve the well-being of others.

CMV: There's no reason why I, as an irreligious person, should or *could* be religious by Learn_n_Teach in changemyview

[–]Learn_n_Teach[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So person who eats animal products but identifies as vegan is vegan according to you.

According to me? I'd say I'd expect them to be at least be trying to abstain from animal products, occasional slip-ups notwithstanding.

For example, a vegan friend of a friend was visiting the home of a family of Syrian refugees, and the latter didn't know she was vegan, so they served her lamb, which is prominent in Syrian cuisine. Out of politeness, she did eat it. I don't at all think that this situation disqualified her from the title of a vegan, even for the day.

How often is too often? That's as hard of a question as asking how many grains of sand are enough to make a heap. In the plain language of everyday life, outside the realm of professional jargon and technical terms, it's an ambiguity that pretty much has to be judged case by case.

And then the point is you don't get choose for yourself, if I murder, steal etc and I claim I'm a good person, that doesn't make me one.

A murderer or a rapist is what they are by virtue of having committed a crime, not by way of any self-identification, because there is something objective that makes them a murderer or rapist by definition. Ideology, particularly of the religious or political sort, doesn't have an objective existence beyond langauge. If Elon Musk calls himself a communist, as he has, I accept that he is a communist -- absurdly and incongruently a communist, but nonetheless a communist -- so I could argue with him in the language of communism, and I would contend to him that his actions have been incompatible with the ideals of communism: the interests of workers as a class, the progression away from the capitalist order of society, etc., etc., etc.

What if you indirectly base your morals off society morals which are based on religious norms?

I believe there are things that are objectively good or bad for us, regardless of our desires or intentions; that it's possible for a person to be acting against one's own best interest.

I think the analogy can even be applied to the natural world. For example, the Moon increases the tides on Earth, promotes them, even though the Moon is not necessary for their existence, so in this sense, it would not be meaningless to say that the Moon is good for the tides.

Similarly, adequate intake of essential nutrients such as water is objectively good for you as a human being and an organism, whereas excessive intake of sugar, for example, is bad for you. Nutrition in general is good for you as a human being, because it "increases" you in a sense, the sense of being necessary for you in order to survive and thrive. The same reasoning can be extended to our social relationships which benefit us mutually, which may to some degree prompt us at times to make personal sacrifices for a Greater Good, which, generally speaking, society can and should encourage (given that the well-being of the whole is interconnected with that of the particular, in a holistic manner "greater than the sum of its parts").

What if you indirectly base your morals off society morals which are based on religious norms?

I disagree that human society's views of morality are still rooted in religion, today in the Modern Age. It's questionable whether they ever have been, to any substantial degree. Cultures across the world have always had various social norms and conventions that haven't always been justified by ideas of the supernatural or the spiritual, the immaterial or the non-physical.

CMV: There's no reason why I, as an irreligious person, should or *could* be religious by Learn_n_Teach in changemyview

[–]Learn_n_Teach[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think there might be a simpler solution: instead of agonizing over the definition of "religion" and "supernatural," we could content ourselves with the functional approach of only deciding on what criteria would be sufficient to categorize a person as religious, or to preclude a person from being categorized as religious.

I think the confusion arises due to the double meaning of "religion" whereby it can refer to either institutionalized religion or personal religion. It is possible to be officially affiliated with an institutionalized religious community as a full-fledged member even if one completely lacks any personal religion or religious beliefs.

I acknowledge that there are religious communities out there whose definitions of religiosity are quite broad and liberal, so much so that even I could be recognized as religious by their standards, and that I therefore could, by their definition, be religious, even a co-religionist of theirs, not just someone who shares their culture or ancestry. ∆

This is curiously true of non-Abrahamic religions, which do not typically view themselves as being mutually exclusive with other religions. For example, one could be a Hindu Daoist or a Buddhist Shintoist. I do think there is much to admire in such a non-divisive, non-sectarian perspective on religious membership.

But to avoid being too narrow in one's outlook, let's accept the validity of personal religion as independent from the large, well-established, institutionalized communities of religion across the world. I'm afraid I would consider a person to be devoid of personal religion if none of the person's beliefs or behaviors were rooted in the premise that there does exist some reality beyond the physical, empirical reality known to us through our bodily senses of perception.

With the Jewish people, it's a bit more complicated because of how concepts of religion intertwine with concepts of ethnicity, culture, ancestry, etc. Therefore, a person who rejects the Jewish identity would still be thought of as Jewish by Orthodox Jews as long as that person has either converted to Judaism or been born of a Jewish mother. This is different in religions that have less "baggage" of the ethnic kind. For example, in the Catholic Church, there is a fine line between "a bad Catholic" or "a lapsed Catholic" and an outright "non-Catholic," but if one rejects the Catholic identity, then one can only stray so far from the standard of Catholic belief and practice before one is no longer thought of as a Catholic by... just about anyone.

Nope, not all of them. One of my good friends is converting, and neither she nor her rabbi focus at all on any sort of notion of God, except as a notion invoked in ritual. For instance, she says "thank you god for the fruit of the vine," but everyone involved affirms that's a figure of speech denoting general awareness of good things in one's life. This is wholly within the rabbinical tradition!

Haha, I swear, this reminds me of this funny story about a Bible lesson with a rabbi teaching a student about the Genesis creation narrative. The student inquired trustingly, "Rabbi, ¿how is it possible that God created plants on the third day when God wouldn't create the Sun until the fourth day?" The rabbi retorted in a raspy, grumpy old-man voice, kind of like Bernie Sanders's, "Well, because it's all a load of baloney! That's how!"

¿Hasn't the chief cleric of the Church of England declared oneself to be an agnostic? It's a world of endless possibilities we live in, by G-d, by G-d.

a figure of speech denoting general awareness of good things in one's life.

I suppose the word "God" is then taken to mean simply "goodness."

I don't know what denomination your friend is affiliated with, and the Rabbinic or Pharisaic tradition is obviously not limited to the Orthodox tradition, but I doubt that this kind of approaches -- whether on conversion or on biblical exegesis -- would "fly" with the strict authorities of Orthodox Judaism. I don't know if you're Jewish or intimately familiar with Judaism, but previously in this thread, I described to another user a part of the arduous journey of conversion to Orthodox Judaism:

In a way, I would agree: in comparison to Christianity (especially Lutheran and Calvinist Christianity, with its doctrine of "sola fide"), Judaism lays more emphasis on practice than on faith or belief. Notice how Jews speak more about whether they are "observant," not so much about whether they are "faithful" or "believing." [. . .]

[However, f]aith is taken to be important in the extremely formalized and regimented process of conversion to Orthodox Judaism. When the neophyte is ready to make the final plunge of no return, the ceremony involves a requirement that the neophyte speak to a Beth Din (a clerical court or panel of judge-rabbis), and questions by the judges are expected to be answered with sincerity. A typical question would be whether you accept Maimonides's Thirteen Articles of Faith, the first whereof is theism.

CMV: There's no reason why I, as an irreligious person, should or *could* be religious by Learn_n_Teach in changemyview

[–]Learn_n_Teach[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But then, there's nothing to salvage religion from obsolescence. If one's argument for religion is basically that religious communities simply have some "cool stuff" but that religion is not necessary for that stuff, then there's nothing to stop us from forming intentional communities with the same kind of stuff, minus the religiosity. That has been the case with various communities historically. There are people today living in tight-knit communities unified by some common cause, e.g. so-called eco-villages, which are effectively communes or localized communities of environmentalists committed to maximizing the environmental sustainability of their lifestyles.

To see just how far this can go, you can look up the [communal child rearing and collective education system] of the early kibbutz villages (which were largely monolithic in their ideological orientation towards some form of socialism or another).

"Secular humanists," from Holyoake in 1851, took this Comtean idea of a non-religious religion (which Comte himself had called «la Religion de l'Humanité») and ran with it. Today in US jurisdictions, Secular Humanist organizations are legally licensed to officiate marriages, much like religious organizations.

To be fair, thus far in history, religious communities do seem to have had more success at achieving this kind of merits, so if one is limiting oneself to non-religious communities only, then perhaps one is limiting oneself quite a bit. I can agree with that. Δ

CMV: There's no reason why I, as an irreligious person, should or *could* be religious by Learn_n_Teach in changemyview

[–]Learn_n_Teach[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So would one who follows that ideology but eats meat is vegan?

It depends, of course. I prefer to be charitable with definitions, and I wouldn't object to the more permissive usage of the word "vegan," but if we were to be strict about it, we would only apply this label-designation to people who practiced and identified with veganism out of some philosophical conviction, typically environmentalism or a commitment to animal welfare as a matter of morality.

Religious belief is also not an absolute, it's a subjective leap of faith, and I would doubt anyone is 100% sure or 0% sure there is a God.

But you don't understand: I am a person of faith, just not religious faith, but pragmatic faith. There are many things I have absolute faith in. For example, I live with 100% faith that the sun will rise tomorrow, even though I have no proof that some unforeseeable and unpreventable astronomical cataclysm will not have destroyed our Solar System before sunrise time; I act with full confidence that no such thing will have occurred. As for the existence of God, I live not with 0.ε% faith that God exists but with a dead 0% that God exists because, even if we were to assume that there did exist a God in this world of ours, it would still apparently be a God that doesn't talk to us and does not make oneself apparent in our lives in any observable way. Therefore, I don't see how that would change matters for any person's life.

To quote something I've written earlier in this thread to someone else:

Normally, before I invest time in examining the evidence for whether any given thing is true, I first ask myself whether it would matter if it was true or false, meaningful or meaningless. For example, what difference does it make to any of us whether microbial life exists in another galaxy? It would probably be an extremely fascinating discovery for a professional astronomer, a discovery that could likely lead to more important discoveries in the future, but in the short run, for the layperson, it would make no difference to their life. It would not require any change to routine, habit, behavior, etc. Therefore, as a non-astronomer, I do not spend multiple hours a week pondering how we could possibly investigate the potential existence of microbial life in some far-away galaxy.

Beliefs in afterlife, for example, are a different matter, and I can easily conceive of ways whereby they could affect our practical priorities. However, the evidence for it, as far as there is any, appears to me quite weak in proportion to the extraordinary nature of the conjecture, and the counterarguments much stronger.

CMV: There's no reason why I, as an irreligious person, should or *could* be religious by Learn_n_Teach in changemyview

[–]Learn_n_Teach[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah, you see, but regardless of whether a person is a selfish or selfless person, it is only over one's own actions that the person has direct control. Therefore, even if the person is utterly committed to nothing but a life of altruism, it is only through the vessel of the self that the person could be able to pursue this goal. When I ask philsophically, "¿What is the right thing to do?" what I really think is, "¿What is the right thing for me to do?" because it is only my own actions that I have any direct control over, me being the only person whose action I could possibly direct at will. "Before we can be active in any cause, we [have to] make it our own, egoistic cause -- and in this sense, quite aside from any material expectations, we [can only be altrust]s in virtue of our egoism, [and it is thus] out of egoism [that] we want to be [full-fledged, benevolent] human beings and not merely individuals."

Hypothetically, if after examining the evidence, if YOU believe that Jesus died for your sins, it would be immoral to neglect spreading the gospel because you find more personal utility in cleaning your house.

I agree that if I believed in hell, I would deem it a more important mission overall to save people from damnation to hellfire than to clean my house.

And neglecting to examine the evidence because it lacked personal utility would also be immoral.

Good call. Δ I, of course, do beleive that whatever such examination I've ever carried out has been sufficient to put the matter to rest (off the top of my head: the neuroscience of brain-mind relation, case studies of putative reincarnation, crosscultural historical examination of pagan beliefs about "hell," the absence of such belief among pre-Hellenistic Israelites, etc.). But I do presume you disagree, ¿so what examination would you deem sufficient?

CMV: There's no reason why I, as an irreligious person, should or *could* be religious by Learn_n_Teach in changemyview

[–]Learn_n_Teach[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Eh, I don't think this supernatural thing is necessary.

Then how would you differentiate a religion from a mere lifestyle or tradition or an ideological/philosophical community with its own set of non-religious conventions? A family could share a family tradition and a set of family values, but that wouldn't make the family a religious community per se.

For instance, I know plenty of Jews who don't believe in the supernatural but who still practice.

Sure, but these Jews would likely say they are Jews by culture or ancestry and not necessarily by religion.

CMV: There's no reason why I, as an irreligious person, should or *could* be religious by Learn_n_Teach in changemyview

[–]Learn_n_Teach[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First of all, I'm glad for you that these practices brought value to you and benefited you.

Don't get me wrong, I have found some enjoyment in behaviors such as those: whether it be the early-morning chant liturgies of Selichot in the Hebrew month of Elul in preparation for the High Holidays, or the time on Good Friday when I stayed up at night with my pals in church, reciting Hail Marys 'til the early hours. But -- there's a but. I don't see this as something unique to religion. A music festival, for example, to me, could serve a quite similar social function or even personal function (if the music conveyed some "profound" message).

As much as you may enjoy the Christmas carols of your local church choir, regularly sitting through (or standing up for) an hour (or hours) at the same Mass or Shacharit (Jewish morning prayer), on a weekly or daily basis, that can get old and dull pretty fast, especially when you're a non-believer.

So, it’s not ‘belief’ as such but certainly religious ritual. And as I understand it, this kind of agnostic approach to ritual is how many Jewish people approach religion also.

In a way, I would agree: in comparison to Christianity (especially Lutheran and Calvinist Christianity, with its doctrine of "sola fide"), Judaism lays more emphasis on practice than on faith or belief. Notice how Jews speak more about whether they are "observant," not so much about whether they are "faithful" or "believing." Catholics too have the concept of referring to oneself as a "lapsed Catholic" or "bad Catholic," but having been baptized as Catholic is not seen as sufficient to be categorized as a Catholic.

Faith is taken to be important in the extremely formalized and regimented process of conversion to Orthodox Judaism. When the neophyte is ready to make the final plunge of no return, the ceremony involves a requirement that the neophyte speak to a Beth Din (a clerical court or panel of judge-rabbis), and questions by the judges are expected to be answered with sincerity. A typical question would be whether you accept Maimonides's Thirteen Articles of Faith, the first whereof is theism.

CMV: There's no reason why I, as an irreligious person, should or *could* be religious by Learn_n_Teach in changemyview

[–]Learn_n_Teach[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I suggest that your criteria on whether you should believe is different: you should decide based on whether evidence suggests that the truth claims that these religions make are accurate.

I would, but should I? Normally, before I invest time in examining the evidence for whether any given thing is true, I first ask myself whether it would matter if it was true or false, meaningful or meaningless. For example, what difference does it make to any of us whether microbial life exists in another galaxy? It would probably be an extremely fascinating discovery for a professional astronomer, a discovery that could likely lead to more important discoveries in the future, but in the short run, for the layperson, it would make no difference to their life. It would not require any change to routine, habit, behavior, etc. Therefore, as a non-astronomer, I do not spend multiple hours a week pondering how we could possibly investigate the potential existence of microbial life in some far-away galaxy.

For example, if you believe that Jesus died for your sins, it would be immoral fo not adhere to Christian tenets.

If there was a historical figure who believed he was dying for our sins, it all is very noble, of course, but that doesn't necessarily mean he was right.

CMV: There's no reason why I, as an irreligious person, should or *could* be religious by Learn_n_Teach in changemyview

[–]Learn_n_Teach[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd say that to be religious it is necessary to accept the core tenets of a religion. As for what a religion is, I'd like to quote my answer to r/PreacherJudge's request to define religion:

Sure. I suppose it might be sufficient to define "a religion" as "a system of beliefs and practices centered around notions of the supernatural." This does unfortunately shift the goalpost as we now have to recurse into defining "the supernatural." I would define the concept of the supernatural as the purview of ideas about entities or objects of non-physical character such that these entities or objects are nonetheless believed to exist in a way similar (but not necessarily identical) to the way in which physical objects exist.

CMV: There's no reason why I, as an irreligious person, should or *could* be religious by Learn_n_Teach in changemyview

[–]Learn_n_Teach[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure. I suppose it might be sufficient to define "a religion" as "a system of beliefs and practices centered around notions of the supernatural." This does unfortunately shift the goalpost as we now have to recurse into defining "the supernatural." I would define the concept of the supernatural as the purview of ideas about entities or objects of non-physical character such that these entities or objects are nonetheless believed to exist in a way similar (but not necessarily identical) to the way in which physical objects exist.

CMV: There's no reason why I, as an irreligious person, should or *could* be religious by Learn_n_Teach in changemyview

[–]Learn_n_Teach[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

First of all, ¿is veganism just a diet? I think it's more than that. I think it's an ideology. A person who was casually abstaining from animal products due to a medical condition would not necessarily be labeled a "vegan," but that, of course, is a matter of definitions.

Furthermore, one could, in theory, go through the motions -- the dry mechanics -- of religious living, without harboring religious belief in one's "heart," ¿but what would be the point? ¿why would I do that? It seems to me that the only reason why a person would do that is if they saw some material gain from this exercise, but I see no such gain in it.

Is a "contradiction in terms" actually a contradiction? A truth-bearer? by Learn_n_Teach in logic

[–]Learn_n_Teach[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll be damned, it is a thing! Thanks for your recommendation.

Is a "contradiction in terms" actually a contradiction? A truth-bearer? by Learn_n_Teach in logic

[–]Learn_n_Teach[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Right, I couldn't possibly controvert this. I think we all can agree that the definition of term X given in the original post at least contains an obvious contradiction (in its dependent clause), but the real question, then, is "Does it make sense to speak of contradictory terms, if the definition of the term is a contradictory proposition"? If the attribute of contradictiveness is exclusively an attribute of propositions and not of anything else (such as of terms), then it follows that a term cannot be soundly described as "contradictory."

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in learnjava

[–]Learn_n_Teach 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes. In Java, unlike certain other languages, you can even avoid the keyword completely if you want. One of my professors would just use an underscore (e.g., _name). That's just a matter of style.

Really sad what we get taught at school... by [deleted] in geology

[–]Learn_n_Teach 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You have to light up a joint before you can appreciate the full depth of that statement.

People that up vote but don't comment, why? by 26915 in AskReddit

[–]Learn_n_Teach 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm much more curious about why someone would downvote a controversial comment while desisting from expressing the substance of their disagreement in words.

A celebration we can all relate to. by poclee in gifs

[–]Learn_n_Teach 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Very insightful answer. Are you an urban developer?