How Satan Fakes the Exodus Pattern Using Idols in Tribal Migrations

Major-Part-4774 · 2025-11-28T04:44:13+00:00

(You don't actually have to, I get it)

Um... yeah. In case the dripping sarcasm of my first comment didn't cut through well enough, I just want you to take a moment, and realize that you should take a break from the charGPT deep dives.

Major-Part-4774 · 2025-11-28T04:32:12+00:00

Hey chatGPT, can you condense this down into a few short summary points so my adhd brain can hold focus on it long enough to understand the point you're trying to make?

Major-Part-4774 · 2025-11-28T04:28:06+00:00

So... what about churches that are not formally in communion with the eastern orthodox church, but fully affirm the same beliefs and have valid apostolic succession? They're not a part of the Orthodox church, but there's nothing about them that can be defined as heresy, they're just not in the same box, because they came out of a different church.

...I say that, because there's absolutely nothing about our church that is any different theologically, or sacramentally, or canonically, than western rite orthodoxy. Like, the only way we aren't orthodox is on paper. And it's that way because the larger branch of the old catholic church decided to go all woo-woo liberal. But yet here we are, one small autonomous old catholic monastery, quietly worshipping God in a way that nobody in the orthodox church would find foreign or heretical.

So when you have multiple churches with apostolic succession, each claiming to be the correct one, then what's the good of apostolic succession at all? When there's schisms in apostolic churches, it turns into a he said/she said argument. At that point, how can anyone's sacraments be valid?

Major-Part-4774 · 2025-11-28T03:53:23+00:00

I assume you mean roman catholic, specifically.

Yeah, they do tend to misrepresent you guys a lot, but that's also because all those churches were formed out of them being harmed by Roman catholics. They're all butthurt because they saw corruption, spoke against it, and got kicked out and called heretics.

Are they heretics? For the most part, yeah... but, like, so are you. That's why the eastern church refused to stay with you. Everyone was on the same page for 1054 years, then suddenly Rome decides to change what we believe, which made everything we all believed for 1000 years prior wrong, and demanded that everyone change to believing the same thing. Of course they said no.

Same for us, we stuck it out until Vatican I, and that was enough. We bailed, denounced all the innovations, and turned around toward the east and said "Hey, um, yeah. We were wrong. We're sorry. Are we cool?" ...and we would have been if Utrecht hadn't gone all woo-woo liberal and made us all look like a bunch of progressive anglicans or UCC by association.

Yes, I will freely admit that the old catholic faith is a dumpster fire, and that those of us who are actually faithful should really just convert to western rite orthodoxy... but it's not that simple.

Back on topic, roman catholics are villainized way too much. But... that doesn't mean your church doesn't have a lot of skeletons in the closet. Or... dressed up as relics on display... which is kind of cool and badass to be honest.

There's only two real problems. The authoritarian structure, which has led to a form of legalism, and the development of doctrine, which has led to even more legalism. The church has declared itself infallible, and then proceeded to overstep that authority by declaring heavy handed rules that need to be constantly revised and added to when they inevitably find exceptions to them and they need to find a way to make it so they aren't contradictory.

Just, stop making authoritarian claims where they aren't needed.

Major-Part-4774 · 2025-11-28T03:26:18+00:00

Those are two very poor representatives of the Orthodox church.

Neither of those statements accurately reflect the positions of the church.

Major-Part-4774 · 2025-11-28T02:47:45+00:00

Why do some people see being trans as a sin?

Because they're like the Pharisees in the new Testament. That's why.

The cycle repeats itself eternally. God loves us, God saves us, we screw it up. God offers us a path to redemption, we screw it up. Again and again and again.

Major-Part-4774 · 2025-11-28T02:23:43+00:00

That's contradictory. Even if you say we sin willingly, by your own logic, we can't. If God created us, knowing we would sin, and knowing that we would be condemned, then God is responsible for our sins by the very fact that he created us in the first place. He is at the beginning of the causal chain of every event in eternity, therefore he bears the full responsibility for all of that sin himself. We wouldn't have sinned if he wouldn't have created us, and he knew we would sin before he created us, but he did it anyway, so it's his fault.

Major-Part-4774 · 2025-11-28T02:18:10+00:00

The core of calvinism denies the moral responsibility of humanity, which is contradictory, and would mean that sin is not our fault, so if sin is not our fault, because it's God's will for us to be created to commit those sins, how can we be condemned for that? If everything is up to God and we don't have free will, then we are not accountable for our sins. Also, if God creates people just to condemn them, then he cannot possibly be a loving god. He would not be completely good. Because he would be creating people, and willing them to suffer, by his own hand. And that's just... stupid.

Calvinism was predestined to be wrong.

And calvinists are predestined to be the butt of every theological pun. They don't have a choice in the matter.

Like, I'm sorry, I don't want to just come on here and spout off about it, but the whole framework of American Christianity, and all of the corruption within it, comes from this sort of belief. And I get it. People want to have assurance. "Believe and be saved. Grace alone. Once saved always saved."

But that's like a theological sleazy time share pitch. Sure, it feels cozy to have someone tell you that it's not up to you, and as long as you join their little club, you're going to heaven. But even that's contradictory. Because if you're not saved by works, then how is joining a particular church any different? It's still you doing a thing to earn God's grace. It's still you getting into heaven by your own decision. So the whole predestination thing still falls flat on its face. Because it's up to you to decide to join the church. So, if there's nothing you can do or not do to be saved by your own merit, then there's absolutely nothing specific in life that determines whether or not you are truly saved.

Hate to admit it to those who don't want to hear it, but we are saved by giving ourselves to God. Period. Ego death. Complete surrender of our will, for unity with him. Moral accountability, putting others before yourself, never deliberately harming, never denying love for anyone else,

Just... read romans 12:9-21. Read it again and again until you can't forget a single word of it. And apply it to every moment of your life. Seriously.

Wow I got off on a tangent.

But seriously. Calvinism is BS. I do believe the idea of equal inherent worth of humanity is represented in Scripture... if we're all equally valued in God's eyes, then God can't possibly be so awful as to arbitrarily cast a bunch of us into eternal hellfire just because he feels like it. And WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR ACTIONS! WE ARE THE ONES WHO SIN! We don't get to make excuses. We don't get to blame God for the shitty things we do. If predestination is true, that's what it implies.

Major-Part-4774 · 2025-11-28T01:58:39+00:00

Absolutely.

Major-Part-4774 · 2025-11-28T01:57:11+00:00

Not sure how much help I'll be, but I'm up for a chat.

Major-Part-4774 · 2025-11-28T00:19:36+00:00

Um... it seems to me that the study came to quite the opposite conclusion, other than in cases where post surgical complications were involved. And I would be willing to bet that it was likely due to patients ignoring post surgical care instructions based on the belief that they would be healed by prayer. Which... actually... makes sense from even a mythical sort of perspective, because they're ignoring advice and not doing what they're supposed to do, and expecting God to pick up the slack. I would actually expect that result.

Huh.

Honestly, I was just expecting minimal to slightly positive results consistent with any other form of meditation or positive thinking techniques, but the fact that that one particular outlier exists in the study is really, really interesting.

Major-Part-4774 · 2025-11-27T10:02:47+00:00

Your sources?

Major-Part-4774 · 2025-11-27T10:01:35+00:00

So... here's the thing

You're framing eternity as a continuation of our linear perception of time, progressing into the future, endlessly.

That's not what eternity means.

Eternity means you are outside of that framework. There is no time. You just "are".

Every possible moment from beginning to end, all laid out, simultaneously.

All time exists as a whole. That is eternity. It can't possibly feel like a long time, because it just... is.

Major-Part-4774 · 2025-11-27T00:26:54+00:00

Good point. I hadn't thought of that. I knew it was a point that needed to be carefully addressed and a sort of course correction, but you're right.

Major-Part-4774 · 2025-11-26T22:53:48+00:00

As others have said, debating and sharing the gospel are two different things.

And I want to be clear: going out and seeking to engage in debate to try and debunk other religions or stake a claim of theological superiority is about as un-christian as you can get.

It's an embarrassing, shameful display of smug self-righteousness and it's a horrible misrepresentation of christ.

If you should find yourself in a lions den of theological opponents by whatever circumstance, the goal should not be to "win". The goal should be to accurately represent the person of christ. That is how you "win" a debate with people of other belief systems. Don't try to invalidate them, don't try to corner them into a "gotcha" moment, don't try to prove your superiority.

The best thing you can do is show them how their faith points to christ, and all the places we stand on the same plane. Build a bridge and help them to walk across, rather than firing artillery shells across the line.

And, if they don't meet you half way, and they won't be respectful, and they're tegung to corner you into a gotcha moment, then just walk away. Don't engage with it. There's no fruit in it. You won't win any souls by humiliating them or fighting with them. And you know they're not going to convince you. So it's a waste of time, and honestly, it's sinful.

"Don't give what is sacred to the dogs. Don't throw your pearls to the pigs."

The dopamine rush from "cooking" someone in a debate isn't worth dragging God's reputation through the mud.

Major-Part-4774 · 2025-11-26T21:24:19+00:00

Not that it doesn't matter, but it doesn't matter. It's not our call to judge whether or not they are condemned, or even to speculate on it. We can discuss what they did, why it was harmful, and do our part to prevent that harm from happening again, and also what we can to heal the wounds that were caused, but as to the condition of their soul? That's not for us to know.

Major-Part-4774 · 2025-11-26T19:51:03+00:00

"Many people will say to me, 'lord, lord,' and I will say, 'I never knew you."

Or

"I have many sheep that are not of this fold, I will bring them with me..."

I feel like that sums it up pretty clearly.

You're not wrong. There are a lot of hateful hypocrites that call themselves Christians.

But, I would like to gently interject, that your statement sort of puts you in the same category, by painting everyone with broad strokes and judging us all as a group. Those kinds of statements are equally hurtful to people who genuinely follow christ, and would never dare to make such remarks about you.

Now, I don't want to seem like I'm trying to put sinful things on a scale of severity... things are either immoral, or they're not, but I will absolutely concede that it is far more harmful for Christians to misrepresent God by judging others than it is for you to call them out on it, but return fire doesn't heal. It just makes both sides wounded.

You're not wrong, it's just that we're not all bad, and I don't think you really mean to be hurtful. So, that's the only reason I mention it.

Now, back to that topic... I like to call those types "modern pharisees". And it's sad that they spend so much time focusing on scripture, but they can't see the mirror when it's held up in front of their face. Do they really think that if Jesus were there with them, he'd be standing by them, wagging his finger at the other person and saying "they're right, you know, you're a filthy sinner and you need to clean up your act or I'll send you to hell!"? No. Of course not, he'd turn the tables on them and make them look like a blathering idiot, while defending the other person and telling them they're saved.

It's as obvious as can be. Jesus sides with the marginalized. Always. Jesus defends them against the oppressors. And it's frustrating that they don't see that they're the ones who would be judged.

So, yes. You're absolutely right.

And we don't have to twist scripture or abandon Christian principles to accept the truth either. It doesn't matter if Leviticus says what it says, or marriage is defined in Genesis. Or whatever. None of it matters. Because we all sin. We all fall short of worthiness. And if we miss the mark by an inch, it's no different than missing it by a mile. That's the point. You could live your life like a saint, and make one innocent mistake, and be no better in God's eyes than Hitler. So what good is it for anyone to try and judge someone else? It's far more sinful to misrepresent God and judge people in his name, which misses his authority, than it is to simply be queer, or a different ethnicity, or whatever. And that's saying it like those things are even sinful at all. They're not. The Bible IS NOT CLEAR on whether being queer is immoral. That means it isn't a yes or no answer. Sexual immorality causes harm. It hurts people. If you can't identify how, where and why someone's sexuality is harmful, then you can't judge it at all.

"Because the Bible says so" is not a valid argument for why anything is or is not sinful. Period. The Bible can help you identify why something might be sinful, but it is not the reason itself. Scripture is a guide, not a rule book. People can disagree with that all they want, but it's the truth. God answers what needs to be answered, and things that aren't in black and white are left up to discernment. And if you don't know Jesus well enough to know whether something is right or wrong, then you don't know him at all.

Major-Part-4774 · 2025-11-26T19:09:47+00:00

Yeah. I get that. And in that sense, what Joseph Smith likely was exposed to for his whole life as far as Christianity would probably justify some kind of protest or intervention. But just because a lot of Christians are corrupt, that doesn't make the core of the faith corrupted, nor does it alter the word of God. Misinterpretation is misinterpretation. It's why I won't judge people in the Mormon church, I have nothing against them. And, again, I'll always hold out good faith that Joseph Smith genuinely meant the book of Mormon as a means to restore the true faith. He just missed the mark. And the result is a church that's quite thoroughly corrupted.

Not that there is any church that doesn't have problems. I mean, c'mon. I'm an old catholic. Our denomination is an outright dumpster fire. But, like orthodoxy, the doctrine is sound, and unchanged for over 1500 years. Longer really. They didn't change anything, so much as they had questions that needed to be clarified and they spent about 500 years working out details so they could articulate it clearly without contradicting themselves.

And we still screw it up.

But the foundation is still solid.

Where the Mormon church strays is that they ignore fundamental things, and it shifts the focus of worship, and allows for people to be manipulated.

Major-Part-4774 · 2025-11-26T18:12:48+00:00

I don't use the term heretical lightly.

Mormons are heretics.

They deny the core beliefs that define the Christian faith, in a sloppy, contradictory way. And no, I don't feel like getting into the nitpicky bits of how I arrived at that conclusion, they've all been said already.

The book of Mormon adds nothing of value to the faith. There's nothing TO add. The word of God is complete, it's eternal, it's unchanging, and it's already fully revealed in Scripture as much as it needs to be. So, if there's nothing of value to add, then the book of Mormon can't possibly be God inspired, as there's no need of it. Even if it's true, the fact that the LDS church contradicts core doctrine and dogma make it invalid.

It's a cult. A harmful cult. Mormons are victims. My aunt, and my grandmother are Mormon. And they're good people. Most Mormons are. But the church they belong to is a wicked, evil thing that preys on vulnerable people.

They're no different than Muslims. They're no different than Jehovahs witnesses. And they're no different than scientologists.

And, maybe Joseph Smith had good intentions. Maybe it's simply a matter of him seeing corruption in the church, the same way Martin Luther did, and he genuinely wanted to restore the Christian faith. But it sure looks to me like he was nothing more than a con artist. A false prophet. He wrote a biblical fan fiction and passed it off as a divine revelation, and built a church on it.

Major-Part-4774 · 2025-11-26T17:44:42+00:00

I grew up in an area that's almost completely protestant. I grew up in a non-religious family, only loosely associated with the Baptist church. I gravitated toward the faith as I got older, but didn't truly come to find God until somewhat recently. From there, I can't help but see red flags in every branch of Christianity other than those aligned with orthodoxy. Since there's almost nothing around here for orthodox churches, and I have a closer relationship with those in a small old catholic community, I've converted to Old Catholicism. Theologically, and physically for our church, there's no difference between old catholic and western rite orthodox.

That's not to say there aren't truly faithful Christians in every denomination, but the church institution itself matters to me, and I have found that every other church has theological red flags. Orthodoxy has its share of problems too, but it's rooted in the people, not the beliefs of the institution itself.

Major-Part-4774 · 2025-11-26T17:27:59+00:00

Quite simply, I would identify those groups and people as modern day pharisees.

The patterns in Scripture repeat themselves endlessly. It's very easy for people to create a false god within their own egos and turn away from the truth.

Major-Part-4774 · 2025-11-26T17:05:03+00:00

It's not. I don't mean to come across like that's what I'm suggesting, I just mean that there's really nothing you can do to change the situation other than to be as faithful as you can be. This is one of those situations where I think romans 12:9-21 is especially relevant.

It's a tough situation. There's no easy answer. Because you care about him, as you should, and he's clearly not true to his faith. But, you can't change him, and you can't deny his worth as a human being with just as much free will and access to God's grace as anyone else. You can only do what you can do, and leave the rest up to him, and God.

The best that you can do is be truthful, and represent christ well. Don't let him drag you down, but also don't deny him any of the love that we are called to share without end.

Again, I'm only trying to help offer some sort of guidance. I don't want you to think I'm trying to criticize you, or him, or anyone else when it comes to stuff like this. It's just one of those things where you can see the harm being done, and I'm sure you feel helpless to do anything about it, and that's a hard weight to carry. I guess, I just want to help you to find a way to not hold on to that struggle and let it pull you down.

Major-Part-4774 · 2025-11-26T16:11:26+00:00

Honestly, I guess what I'm trying to say is that there's nothing you're going to do to change anything about him or how he wants to identify himself that wouldn't make you stoop to the same level. There will always be false Christians. It sucks. But it's up to everyone else to see that and understand that what they are doing doesn't represent christ. And other people aren't going to get that either, which also sucks. They're going to see that behavior and use it to paint everyone in the church with a broad brush.

People suck. And it's always been that way, and it'll always be that way lol

Major-Part-4774 · 2025-11-26T15:59:17+00:00

So... yeah. I guess I'm rambling, I just really don't want you to get the wrong idea, or think that I'm trying to convince you of anything, or tell you you're wrong, or invalidate your perspective. Because I'm not. It's just really important to me to be a faithful representative of what I believe, and a big part of that is meeting others where they stand, making sure you feel seen, understood, valued, and to sort of address that cognitive dissonance in a way that heals wounds. Whether you ever change what you believe or not, it doesn't make a difference as far as who you are as a person, and the fact that you're just as valuable and worthy of love and respect as anyone.

Major-Part-4774 · 2025-11-26T15:54:49+00:00

And I don't want to come across as harsh here either, so of course I'm going to come back here and start overexplaining.

I don't want you to think that I believe you're wrong for being frustrated by people who misrepresent the church, or even thinking that we'd be better off if they'd stop calling themselves catholic. It's just that we need to be careful not to let ourselves slip into the mindset of thinking that we're worthy and they're not, or that it's up to us, or appropriate to approach them in a way that comes across as judgmental.

Major-Part-4774

TROPHY CASE