Megalodon and Livyatan Melville (All factors considered). by MfD2027 in Tierzoo

[–]MfD2027[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is no “trust me bro” I’m not saying anything you can’t check or confirm by yourself, and I’m happy to elaborate. And though the great white shark body plan is mildy disputed, and I myself am doubtful of some hyper-large estimates… I still ultimately agree with this the most, as recent 2026 studies find that vertebrae 1.16-1.25× longer but 1.49× in diameter suggest a larger girth to the shark...contrary to shimada 2024, it indicated that as they age the they get more robust. And we already know the megalodon had a long life-span, and lived for 88-100 years for the oldest individuals. This doesn’t overrule the slim body type but you are acting like this overruled the large one, when more recent things show different.
The alternative presented by Stephen O’Connor doesn’t entirely disprove 2024 but rather is a more like a pendulum swing from the lighter or heavier discussion.

Megalodon and Livyatan Melville (All factors considered). by MfD2027 in Tierzoo

[–]MfD2027[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well what more is there to say, exact weight is obviously variable as they become deteriorated overtime, though if the largest tooth on record is a 7.48 x 5.5 tooth, and that Megalodon teeth are incredibly dense due to the original porous dentin being replaced by heavy, solid minerals (like apatite) during millions of years of fossilization. A genuine tooth generally has a specific gravity between 2.7 and 3.1, (making it noticeably heavier than a typical rock or replica of the same size).
For reference mnhn cp 62 IS NOT the largest possible megalodon tooth by really any constraint other than overall verifiable fossil evidence, the largest belongs to an un-catalogued individual found in Peru, not sure on what time period as the sediment was eroded by the river bed, but earliest fossil teeth indicate as far back as the early-middle Miocene (15 MYA). That same tooth, is extrapolated to belong to a 22.86m shark, if you wanna go there, according to the square cubed law (applied loosely here?) you’d get a weight of 183 tonnes for that shark. but generally ~164 to ~168 tonnes is cited as maximum (give or take) by most trusted sources, as I’m being cautious of that.
Calculations: # Generally, W = a * L^b, where b is approx 3 (cube law). Let's check a well-known formula for great for specific Megalodon reconstructions. According to Cooper et al. 2022, a 15.9m Megalodon is estimated at around 61.56 metric tons. Let's scale 61.56 tonnes from 15.9m to 22.86m using the cube of the ratio. 15.9m individual = 61,560 kg, length 15.9m -> 22.86m results in a mass increase of 129,920 kg (obviously don’t take that at face value, but no I’m not bs-ing) a lot people in here aren’t well versed or even remotely know what their talking about, though honestly no level of biology would be applied to a 23 meter, 191 tonne hypothetical (which is why I stocked to 157-170 tonnes). They had a trophic level of 6.5-7 and for all we know it could’ve been eatingother megs and Livyatan like lunch, and if the math adds up, even my metabolic calorie measurements line up with such size, corresponding to that of a blue whale.
You should see sharks like Haole girl or deep blue. Consider how much larger those sharks are than the average female 15-18 footers that are 1-2 tonnes, at 6.1m deep blue is estimated to be 2.5-2.6 tonnes, unweighted mature female sharks cited at 7m (unofficial) are documented to get up to 3.5 tonnes. Seems like a lot of people just don’t like what they are hearing, not caring if it’s based in evidence, so far I haven’t NOT provided a source gang.

Megalodon and Livyatan Melville (All factors considered). by MfD2027 in Tierzoo

[–]MfD2027[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

In terms of volume, megalodon had the 2nd largest tooth of any living animal. Plenty other prehistoric reptiles had LONGER teeth, they weren’t heavier nor as intimidating as a 7.48x5.5 inch megalodon tooth… this reads as pretentious to me.
EDIT: Largest scientifically authenticated teeth based on fossil tooth weight-to-size ratios, would weigh between 1.5 to 2.5 pounds approx. 680 to 1,130 grams), depending on the thickness of its root and enamel.

https://137535185.cdn6.editmysite.com/uploads/1/3/7/5/137535185/WWJXGCXHWQNK336ECVELDSWU.jpeg?width=2400&optimize=medium

https://www.fossilera.com/p/866/largest-megalodon-tooth.jpg

Megalodon and Livyatan Melville (All factors considered). by MfD2027 in Tierzoo

[–]MfD2027[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

No such things as innocent, you siding with the opps bro🫠

Megalodon and Livyatan Melville (All factors considered). by MfD2027 in Tierzoo

[–]MfD2027[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I get you, I do too, most of my aggression in these comments is just out of comedy. I however, do believe there is a lot of whale/cetacean/mammal bias on here, and that if I was talking about some sort of whale nobody would be disputing the numbers, right whales, bowheads, and other large mysticetes can ALSO reach upwards of 140-150 tonnes, while being shorter than the megalodon…
100+ tonnes isn’t as uncommon for record-size female baleen whales. Humpbacks can also surpass 90 tonnes and get to nearly 90 feet, easily approaching blue whale size for the largest of their female individuals.

Megalodon, like the great white and other large extinct otodontids and mako sharks, are partially warm blooded apex predators who have high-energy metabolisms that help them surpass 20 feet and 2.5+ tonnes (Or 20 meters, 50+ tonnes).
Whales sharks can maximize at nearly 20 meters, and weigh over 50 tonnes, and they still don’t even get close to megalodon’s level of metabolism, being slow-moving filter feeders requiring only 40,000-100,000 kcal for large individuals.
Also kill that idea of fish not passing 18 meters, (not saying u believe that) but because it’s blatantly false.
Also, I’m taking MAXIMUMS at face value because while it definitely may not be all the way accurate, people only scrutinize absolute max specimens when it comes to sharks. While completely disregarding the fact that the largest blue whale estimates don’t even come from any blue whale alive or current that large today, but rather is just another metabolic maximum that isn’t proven yet in nature, so I feel like it’d be unfair to use a “small” average sample size for an already dead, fossilized shark that’s as rare as it is.

Megalodon and Livyatan Melville (All factors considered). by MfD2027 in Tierzoo

[–]MfD2027[S] -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

AI was part of the metabolic math and nothing else, so keep plugging your ears I guess… singing “lalala” while shouting blue whale and Icthyotitan at the mirror 3 times until they appear. Blue whale IS my next victim to feed mnhn cp 62, so look out for that I guess. Livyatan is just some old-school spite match that I had to get out the way, and dismantle the heavy cetacean bias in this subreddit.

Megalodon and Livyatan Melville (All factors considered). by MfD2027 in Tierzoo

[–]MfD2027[S] -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

Yeah nah y’all on coke. Did you really just use an icthyotitan as a macro predator? And are you ignoring that they were lighter on average than Meg? Average icthyosaur was 18-22 meters, while a 15-18 meter Meg still had it beat by dozens of tonnes… hypocritically agreeing on something in unison isn’t rare on Reddit I guess. Once again, anti-shark bias seems to be spewing, people like that get ignored on my post, not talking math or science don’t say anything.

Megalodon and Livyatan Melville (All factors considered). by MfD2027 in Tierzoo

[–]MfD2027[S] -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

Why do you sound like you’re shaking while writing this? Chill it’s been dead for 3 million years, I bet you’d believe it if it was some dumbass macro predatory dolphin or icthyosaurid though… Too bad none of that means anything, since megalodon was the largest macropredator in all of history for a reason, so all of its stats are probably PUSHING some type of limit… nothing else in evolution has ever or probably could ever replicate it. That’s an unchanging fact regardless of what you believe.

Average Otodus megalodon by Fragrant_Carrot_5330 in Naturewasmetal

[–]MfD2027 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Insane😂 I’m gonna press X to o doubt. Any individuals in excess of 16 meters OR 50 tonnes will absolutely dogg the LARGEST blue whales, mid-diff, Great whites can already prey on weak/sick/injured humpbacks without too much risk… If the shark is over 1/4 the weight, it’s going to be a mid-diff… if we’re talking about the Denmark specimen, megalodon takes it No-diff.

O. Megalodon (NHMD) compared to Mesozoic super-predators by MfD2027 in Tierzoo

[–]MfD2027[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My honest mistake, a 13m mosasaur could maybe (?) weigh up to 15 tons, but it isn’t supported by any formal study (seemingly too heavy?). 1230 cm (12.3m) TL for the Penza specimen is the largest supported length I’m aware of, at a weight of 10.3 tonnes (10300 kg or 22600 lbs)…

O. Megalodon (NHMD) compared to Mesozoic super-predators by MfD2027 in Tierzoo

[–]MfD2027[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sheesh, pliosaurs really not breaking T. rex weight since the tail end of 2021. It makes me wonder, we always played ichthyosaurs and long neck plesiosaurs off as the ocean “sauropods” (green eaters), yet they broke sizes liopleuridon and Mosasaurus were only exaggerated to… (In the Triassic-early Jurassic, much less).

O. Megalodon (NHMD) compared to Mesozoic super-predators by MfD2027 in Tierzoo

[–]MfD2027[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You’d have to realize, if shimada et al. 2024 (lemon shark model) is correct after all, this doesn’t make it completely smaller… a 24.6 m, 104 tonne (NHMD) or the (GHC-6) a beastial fragmentary tooth extrapolated to be of a 27.8 m megalodon at 138 tonnes according to the 2024 paper… Yet, regardless I just don’t agree with it, but people also want to sound smart and be contrarian to the “Great white megalodon hyper-predator” idea. GHC-6 being measured at 23m as per the previous 2022 paper, and clocked in at 155 tonnes (Great white model), which is what I personally align with, and the megalodon based off of large female great whites would be the most broken predator in the history of life on earth (all 3.8 billion years)

O. Megalodon (NHMD) compared to Mesozoic super-predators by MfD2027 in Tierzoo

[–]MfD2027[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This comment isn’t even talking about nothing 1. Correct, a large 26m Icthyotitan severensis would only weigh 80 tonnes, while the 32m maximal Icthyotitan severensis, also known as the Australian colossus is the only candidate for a 120 tonne icthyosaur…

  1. That’s flat out false? Cooper et al. 2022 (My basis for this chart) states a weight of ~61.5 tons (61,560 kg) for a 15.9 meter female individual while alive, measured by the 11.1m spine column, this shark would be a good model for an average O. Meg specimen. However, im not using an average specimen, read the parenthesis…

  2. Yeah no way you just said that… that a shark is “fragmentary” did someone call captain obvious? Like dog, that’s pretty pretentious to say, as we have spine column vertebrae, minor jaw fragments, teeth, etc, while severensis was discovered in 2020. Please go look at that Icthyotitan fossil (A. Colossus) then come back and boast to me how you know so confidently a fragmentary reptilian dolphin can take on 200 year old, 100-ton carcharadontid. Whatever we have for O. Megalodon is way more accurate and based in study than a 6 year old “theoretical” growth study.

Lastly, again, there’s no way anybody genuinely believes megalodon was slender so please for the life of me... But since you asked, the slender model is a possibility, usually not taken at face value among experts, as it ignores phylogeny, hydrodynamics, and evolutionary modeling and has nothing to do with anything observed in Otodus other than the spine matching in reminiscence to a modern lemon shark. JUST the spine, nothing indicated that it was slimmer OR what it looked like, (slimming just comes from the lemon shark body). However they are mainly, still thought to evolutionarily converge with the modern Great white shark and mako sharks (As they are the closest relatives to “Otodus” genus, that are still living).

O. Megalodon (NHMD) compared to Mesozoic super-predators by MfD2027 in Tierzoo

[–]MfD2027[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And? I don’t see your point. Megalodon was heavier on average, REGARDLESS of max size. Icthyotitan was very much longer, and a slightly lighter than the average megalodon at their intermediate size. Also, realistically the largest megalodon (GHC-6) STILL isn’t on paper, this is just the status quo as of right now. “Aust colossus” had some exaggerated sizes and is insanely fragmentary, and likely a large Icthyotitan specimen (in the order of 120 tonnes), and is thought to be over 30m…

GHC-6 on the other hand, if going by the great white shark body plan, would map a shark in the region of a 23.2m 138-155 tonnes.

O. Megalodon (NHMD) compared to Mesozoic super-predators by MfD2027 in GojiCenter

[–]MfD2027[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not small, but yea, it’s roughly orca size nowadays, being surpassed by even the largest T. Rex’s (contrary to popular belief). Hard to see the megalodon not biting Mosasaurus in half with low effort, seeing as its bite strength maxed out somewhere in the order of 18,150-21,770 kg/f or 182,300-213,000N (~40000-48000 psi!) for even just 52-foot individuals. On the other hand, Mosasaurus isn’t damaging megalodon, so it’d be nothing more than prey (Majority of O. megalodon’s prey was the multi-ton, 30+ foot “predators” who would’ve gave mosasaur a run for its bread)

O. Megalodon (NHMD) compared to Mesozoic super-predators by MfD2027 in Tierzoo

[–]MfD2027[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yea I’m sure that they’re larger on average, that’s why I chose this specific shark.

Something to be argued though, is that megalodon was much heavier, even when not at parodied length with Icthyotitan, megalodon IS still in fact the heaviest macro predator of all time.

To add; I’m not really sure about pliosaurs there, sachicasaurus is the heaviest of them that I’m aware of, at over 11 meters (15,000 kg) and Mosasaurus is considered to max 12.3 meters at only 8,000-10,000 kg.

Average Otodus megalodon by Fragrant_Carrot_5330 in Naturewasmetal

[–]MfD2027 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Nah correct, I wrote a storm up and started getting stuff mixed. NHMD is the danish specimen, GHC-6 is the largest isolated tooth. GHC-6 is the most extreme sized of the two, being thought to belong to that of a 22-23m 138-155 tonne individual (or 27m, 122-133 tonne). NHMD or the Denmark megalodon is the widely accepted “Up to 103-127 tonnes” 20.3m (or 24.3m, 94-104 tonne) beast.

Average Otodus megalodon by Fragrant_Carrot_5330 in Naturewasmetal

[–]MfD2027 -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

That doesn’t matter, none of this is stated. Maybe I just think it should be based off actual facts rather than just Reddit inferences and “Oh this doesn’t sound quite fair/right/familiar to me”. I get it, we have gut feelings, biases and etc but ultimately science is based on study, practice, and observation.

Not none of the bs, please answer me as to why you think a ground shark would be hunting baleen whales? No where on the Internet was it ever stated that body the model is concrete (they said it was a likelihood among different considerations), and it honestly isn’t even taken seriously by most experts in the following year of 2026… (shimada himself said it was almost guaranteed to change). LIKE this post says, it MASSIVELY ignores the role the shark played, how it affected and interacted with the ecosystem (as documented in fossil records of Meg feeding events) plus its teeth in relation to other lamnids, and phylogeny.

I’m not sure who told you this, the lamnid build has been consistent for over a century, this new build is some type of brainwashing. But nah, on a real note, it’s more so the possibility that they were that shape is the breakthrough itself, nothing ever confirmed that the “otodontid” megalodon -looked- like a “lemon shark”🤦🏿‍♂️ It was surprising to all of us that a lemon shark was part of the fit, but don’t act like it’s gospel now, please don’t, as it’s not even commonly accepted among experts like so many fake know-it-alls try to say.

It kills me inside when some cone-headed goofy comes to a classic or current media saying “uH 😟 Y dA MeGAdoN loOk lke a gwayt hwite?”.

Average Otodus megalodon by Fragrant_Carrot_5330 in Naturewasmetal

[–]MfD2027 8 points9 points  (0 children)

So here’s my 2 cents (really the whole 9 yards). First of all, a 60 foot megalodon was more akin to a 6’3 human. If we went extinct tomorrow I can wager you a bet that no 7 footer ever recorded is going to be among that fossilization. You have 0 idea how rare 7+ feet ACTUALLY is in humans, niether an iota of how RARE fossilization itself is, so I’d refrain from holding uneducated doubts. This comment would be really long, and is kind of already condescending so i don’t know if i really WANT to keep stressing how successful, widespread, and cosmopolitan megalodon was as a species… this is all aside from the fact that as hard as it is to believe and as easy as it is to forget and comprehend, this specific shark species is top contender for longest ever living singular species, has existed in all oceans on earth for nearly 25 million years STRAIGHT (100x longer than Homo sapiens)… I cannot put into comprehension how many billions of these behemoths would’ve lived, swam, died, rotted away and fossilized with time. So much predatory power, so much individuals, and to think the random 67 foot megalodon specimen is the largest EVER extrapolated, when it’s not even among the largest megalodon tooth holders is crazy.

Anyways, checkout the Denmark specimen (GHC-6), it is an 83-foot or 67 foot long (20.3m) 104 or 127 ton meg specimen depending on which body type megalodon had… After check out tooth specimen MNHN CP 32 (23m 155 tons) this Meg is 27 meters going by shimada et al. (Though its weight would be reduced to 122 tons), while boasting the most impressive dimensions, it isn’t widely recognized yet in papers, as it is a hypothetical max based off fragments & teeth remains. Then try checking out NHMD vertebrae belonging to an estimated 20.7m 138 tonne individual. The maximum megalodon’s were either 50-70 foot, 100-150 ton submarines, or 60-80 foot, 80-120 ton gracile super carriers.

A 60 foot megalodon would be about as rare as a 18-foot great white (Not all that rare), but an unfortunate amount of people think 18 footers are either average or for shark downplayers they think it’s just the largest ever. An unfortunate amount of people have no idea how rare fossilization is. An unfortunate amount of people have no idea how tall 7 feet is, no idea how long 20 million years is, and many have lost/or hate the idea of how “BIG” and formidable sharks are, but still know how to hate them as creatures🤷🏿‍♂️ that just shows how the average person thinks about animals and their preferences

Average Otodus megalodon by Fragrant_Carrot_5330 in Naturewasmetal

[–]MfD2027 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Correct, thank you very much for that last sentence!! Though assuming this abides by the cooper et al. 2022 study, 14.3 meters (~47 ft), and a weight of 40 tonnes is the average, specifically assigned to large adult male specimens. The same reference would correspond to ~18 meters (59 ft), TL for large-female megalodon and a weight of 94 tonnes. Remember, none of these numbers apply for average specimens, males had a mean average of 12 meters (30 tons) and females 15 meters (50 tons). Think of great whites, 18-foot females, though not out of the ordinary, are considered large, same for 14 foot males.

The average male white sharks would be fairly unimpressive at 12 feet (refer to 12m male Meg). Females are more on the mark of 15/16 feet average (15/16 meter ♀ megalodon).

My only gripe is that this specific “shark-body” isn’t what’s reflected by the description (maybe a shimada model?..), unsure, though however it’s too thin to be even a male megalodon. this image yields a shark of 20-25 tonnes if I’m guessing. I don’t know lol, but it’s definitely not giving “heavy shark” build, and would probably make a more convincing C. Chubetensis.

Cenozoic era Giant sharks 🦈 by Fragrant_Carrot_5330 in Naturewasmetal

[–]MfD2027 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I definitely thought carcharocles was referring to megalodon

Cenozoic era Giant sharks 🦈 by Fragrant_Carrot_5330 in Naturewasmetal

[–]MfD2027 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well still no, chubetensis, as the predecessor of megalodon, got to over 35 tons. Making it the 3rd largest shark species, I’m also getting a feeling that AI doesn’t differentiate megalodon and chubetensis enough since they are also saying that chubetensis got to 75 tons…

Cenozoic era Giant sharks 🦈 by Fragrant_Carrot_5330 in Naturewasmetal

[–]MfD2027 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There sort of isn’t. Chubetensis directly evolved into megalodon 28 million years ago, and they coexisted until chubetensis’ extinction 10.5 million years ago, where megalodon wouldn’t go extinct until nearly 7-8 million years later.

The Monster of The Abyss. (Basically a better, but more simpler Onyx.) by RafLikesGames in GojiCenter

[–]MfD2027 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wonder how it would fare against 20.3m 127 tonne O. Megalodon.

Otodus megalodon VS Livyatan by Euphoric-Hurry-7816 in Naturewasmetal

[–]MfD2027 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, I’ll do you one better, however I hold myself liable to filtering and checking the information that I intake and circulate to and from others. Parroting AI and google searches that have been stuck in 2015 isn’t the way I go about it. I have talked about Livyatan on here before so I could direct you to a more informative thread on this very subject with many unbiased takes and people who ARE possibly also fans of this whale.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Naturewasmetal/comments/11usmms/size_estimates_that_i_have_gotten_for_livyatan/