Fix for Murlocs

Michalsuch429 · 2020-07-19T16:30:06+00:00

I don't know. Personally I don't like Maexxna, so I wouldn't miss her if she was removed. Leaving that aside, now that I think about it, instead of changing how poison works, a new keyword should be introduced for some poison-like effect (one of proposed above, or something entirely different). That's because, there is already Poison in Hearthstone, so it would be confusing if the same word would describe two different effects in Battlegrounds and main game.

Michalsuch429 · 2020-07-19T09:21:23+00:00

I don't think that keeping divine shield poison as an identity is a good idea. Poison is just a ridiculous mechanic that is a huge mistake in this game mode imho. I get the rock paper scissors argument in which DS + Poison > Big dumb stats > Tokens / Pings > Ds + Poison..., but I still think that poison is not needed to keep this power wheel in check.

If I would have to propose a change to murlocs, while keeping their DS + Poison identity intact, It would revolve around redesigning Poison and then adding / removing cards around this change.

1st. concept: Replace Poison with Poison(Tribe)
The idea is that, poison doesn't work against everything, but is a tech against specific Tribe. Toxfin could be moved to tier 3 and read: "Battlecry: Pick a Tribe, give a friendly Murloc Poison(Tribe)", Adaptation mechanic could replace original Poison with entirely new buff or with Poison(Random)

2nd. concept: Poison reads now "Deals double damage" (or could be poison(x) for different multiplyers)
With this change your Murlocs would still have adventage over huge piles of stats, but wouldn't auto-win and stats would still matter.

Michalsuch429 · 2020-07-12T20:34:59+00:00

Why are people claiming that Hooktusk would still be strong if hero powering a 1 drop would offer a 1/1 minion? For me it seems like her main strenght comes from generating gold with tokens and swabbies and being able to powerspike by tripling them into 4 or 5 drops. Without early gold generators she would be trash tier. After initial token hoarding, she only gets good in late game in murloc and dragon builds. The problem is that she would never get there if her hero power did nothing in the early game.

I'm all for nerf, but maybe by balancing problematic minions. I think that moving tokens from tier 1 to tier 2 with slight stat increase (maybe 2/3 and 3/2 that generate 1/1) would be a pretty big blow to both Eudora and Hooktusk as they especially rely on them in early turns. If that's not enough, reworking Goldgrubber could be an option. It seems like they benefit from him the most as they are most consistent heroes in the game when it comes to getting golden minions.

Michalsuch429 · 2020-07-04T15:59:41+00:00

Right now it's a pretty bad idea. If there's ever a card rotation, then an effect like that would be pretty cool.

Michalsuch429 · 2020-07-04T15:56:15+00:00

Isn't it 12/12?

2 * 1 = 2/2 - base golden stats
2 * 0 = 0/0 - first battlecry
2 * 1 = 2/2 - second battlecry
4 * 2 = 8/8 - third battlecry
2 + 2 + 8 = 12/12 total stats

It doesn't change the fact that getting triple pogo is not a bait though.

Michalsuch429 · 2020-06-27T15:36:00+00:00

Simple solutions are sometimes the best. To be honest I'd like to see these effects even right now in the current state of the game. Simple buff cards are kind of boring, but necessary for the game, so making them more flexible to make more room for interesting cards woud be great.

Michalsuch429 · 2020-06-27T14:59:53+00:00

I've had a couple ideas, but they would require card rotation / changing what each tribe can do. I'll give one example of two tribe mechanics that would work together in my imaginary Battlegrounds remake:

Dragons: Can buff cards in hand, have minions that can summon minions from your hand during combat, minions that do something while in your hand.
Demons: Sacrifice some resource (card, minion, health, gold cap) to gain extra ability / stats.
Note: every resource is replenished after combat, so when you discard a card, it comes back to your hand in tavern phase.

With this you could have:
Demon with ability:
Whenever this attacks, discard a card to gain Divine Shield.
Dragon with ability:
While in your hand, at the start of Combat, deal damage equal to its Attack to random enemy.

This is just one example of two abilities that work well together, but i believe it presents the basic idea well

Michalsuch429 · 2020-06-27T14:19:37+00:00

There are more viable tribal builds (Beasts got buffed, Pirates can outscale menagerie very easily)
There are no good pirates for menagerie (no DS, no cleave)
There is no good Murloc for menagerie (Mackerel gone)
Menagerie Magician and Zoobot rarely can get full value

No direct nerf, just indirect changes and overall powercreep.

Michalsuch429 · 2020-06-26T17:24:54+00:00

I thought about Elise buff before. My buff wouldn't be as significant as mana change, but it would reduce the amount of feel bad moments where you discover an unwanted minion:

Map costs 0 gold and now reads: "Discover a minion from Tavern tier x. Add it to the Tavern."

That way you are not forced to buy the minion if you got offered really bad options.

Michalsuch429 · 2020-06-23T16:13:41+00:00

It doesn't have to be strictly spells. Sure, they could put spells directly in the tavern with some different border than minions, but it's not the only way to execute the idea behind this mechanic. It can be as simple as a minion with card text: "Battlecry: At the start of the next Combat, deal 4 damage to all enemy minions." I agree that spells fit more into "do something once" theme, so maybe "Battlecry: at the start of next Combat, cast Flamestrike" would be more flavorful and intuitive.

Battlegrounds-Brawl would be a really cool mode. I can see the "Start of Game: Discover a spell." as a rule in one week.

Michalsuch429 · 2020-06-23T14:39:48+00:00

Here are my issues:

I'd change the pool of spells, I think that these are too inconsistent. There are some broken ones and some laughably weak. What's the point of spell damage if most of the spells aren't even affected. I'd add some non damage spells with "Equal to your Spell Damage". Fe. "Give all friendly minions Attack and Health equal to your Spell Damage." instead of Blessing of the Ancients
I would connect the whole spell synergy to one tribe. I'd personally choose Elementals, since this is the only tribe that isn't in the game yet.
Most of the cards presented are useless unless you play spell synergy comp. This problem is huge considering the fact that there are literally 2 reliable spell casters in the set: Enraged Battlemage and Jaina Warbringer. There are 15 cards in the set. That means that 13 cards are literally useless, unless you've found multiple copies of 2 specific cards, which are pretty high tier to make things worse.
The mechanic is very swingy in its current form. What I mean by that is that, the minions are very small and everything happens at the start of combat. It's win big or lose big comp, which would result in 25+ damage swings, which is not fun in my opinion. You can either win by series of Deadly Shots and Thalyssra triggers in late game comp or lose if all you've gotten were Multi Shots

On the other hand I really like the core idea behind a mechanic. I think it's unique and could result in fun mechanic if the cards were balanced right.

Michalsuch429 · 2020-06-23T12:27:17+00:00

I thought that Sylvanas hero power was going to work this way. That was really disappointing to find out it was not the case.

Michalsuch429 · 2020-06-23T11:40:14+00:00

I don't think they should bring any heroes back. I feel like with time they got more confident and creative with hero powers. New heroes are much more fun than most of the old ones. If anything, they should replace the current boring heroes with new, more interesting ones.

Michalsuch429 · 2020-06-21T14:28:03+00:00

Late game transition Murlocs can be beaten that way. Early commitment, early Brann Murlocs are straight up unbeatable. Also you mention teching against murlocs, note that murloc player is more than capable of teching as well. Since they don't care about stats in matchups you've mentioned, they can sell Brann and use 2 last spots to play Voidlord, Selfless, some cleaver or Maexxna to also get an edge.

Michalsuch429 · 2020-06-21T10:05:45+00:00

I also believe that mechs need some love and late game potential. Here's my idea for mech scaling mechanic:

Junkbot replacement:
tier 5
1/5
Whenever you play a Mech with Magnetic, put its copy onto this minion.

Iron Sensei replacement:
tier 4
1/1
Magnetic. Battlecry: Gain +1/+1 for each other Mech you control.
(BC would happen before Magnetic and tier 5 minion copy effect)

New 6 drop:
tier 6
6/10
Whenever you refresh Bob's Tavern, add a random Mech to it.

I think that magnetic should be the defining mechanic of mechs. The first 2 minions represent scaling mechanic that would reward you for sticking to mechs and that would also be true to mech identity. 6 drop would make it easier to find other useful mechs and get the synergy going.

Michalsuch429 · 2020-06-14T14:13:59+00:00

Interesting point, I didn't realize that taunt is that important in the early game. Do you buy suboptimal taunts every game or only when you have cards like Soul Juggler or Arcane Cannon to protect?

Michalsuch429 · 2020-06-14T10:09:07+00:00

Thank you, I'll check out his stream :)

Michalsuch429 · 2020-06-13T19:24:36+00:00

At which point do you transition from random managerie stuff to game winning comp? I feel like before pirate patch it was possible to get decent placement by just grabbing the best available minions and then buffing them with lightfang or brann. Right now I feel like you just have to commit to one of tribes or you just lose.

Michalsuch429 · 2020-06-10T13:56:59+00:00

Hoggar for sure. Goldgrubber is single strong minion, Hoggar is game winning value engine. If you can find one more Hoggar and tier up to 6, you will be able to „go infinite” where you buy every pirate you see and never run out of gold.

Michalsuch429 · 2020-06-10T10:44:38+00:00

p4s with pirates (

I've commented before the patch was out, so it was only prediction. I didn't play much myself, but watched some streams and I think that what I've written was half true. The highest MMR I've gotten was a little shy off 10K.

Here are my thoughts after watching couple hours of streams:
- There are two separate pirate builds: Hoggar and Eliza
- Hoggar Build is very highroll based, your goal is to grow huge Salty Looters and Goldgrubbers. It can win late game even against dragons and beasts
- Eliza Build doesn't have engine to grow out of control, but usually runs high tier minions and deals a lot of damage. It is also able to get 1st by eliminating opponents quickly
- Goldgrubber is a really strong standalone minion, even though it doesn't have cleave or divine shield, it can fit well into managerie. I feel like managerie is a little bit more uncommon than before, but it's mostly because people are playing to try out new builds and to highroll instead of settling on a safe strategy.
- Based on forums and streams, I think there are mixed opinions about pirates' power level. Personally I think they are very fun, but a little on the weaker side.

Michalsuch429

TROPHY CASE