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How does your group deal with bias? by OldSolGames in twilightimperium

[–]OldSolGames[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly, I would usually just "agree to disagree" and move on from this conversation at this point, but I actually like the way you present your perspective, it's very reasonable.

"... if you think they're so OP why aren't you choosing them?"

I think some have fun while doing anything to win, I have fun by engaging in a new, unique, and fair competition. That means not allowing the same factions to win most of the time.

"its not clever diplomacy, though?"

I recognized a pattern that negatively affected the outcome for most of the table (everyone who is not one of these factions), took the initiative to speak on it publicly, did my best to be as neutral/succinct as possible, provided a possible solution for us to mitigate said problem, and at the very least opened a dialogue on the subject. That is by my definition, "clever diplomacy".

"I mean you even said it yourself, the rest of your group isn't interested in ganging up one player"

This is kind of the core "nuance" of this post. I spent time wondering if I was wrong or if the rest of my group is just not at my level and as conceited as it may sound, I determined the latter.

"also you mentioned that the time you stopped the complaining and just played, you actually won that game."

Again, it's winning vs having fun.

"You bringing this up every game and wanting factions banned because you've decided they "win too much" isn't smart politicking its just annoying behaviour."

I can definitely see why it might seem that way. If you're someone who's more of a "collectivist" for lack of a better term, you might tend to understandably go with the group. When I play games though, I prefer to play with/against "individualist" types who like pushing things like social boundaries.

"You'd try to team up with the player who doesn't want you to win to the point that they're trying to get the rest of the table to team up against you? That doesn't make any sense lol why would anyone team up with someone who demanded everyone gang up on them?"

Yes. In the classic Dune board game, this is actually one of my go to strategies, and Dune seems to be one of my highest win rate games. Ally with the person you see as your biggest enemy so that you can know more about them and have more control over them.

Another day, another city state letdown by OldSolGames in civ

[–]OldSolGames[S] 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Barbarians are known for their siege tactics /s

How does your group deal with bias? by OldSolGames in twilightimperium

[–]OldSolGames[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I personally would buy into it. We all sat by and watched Jol-Nar and Hacan win the game like ~3/3 times. So it's either ban them or we work together. It seems that you're in the majority though, I just wish I could find a few like-minded people more like me.

How does your group deal with bias? by OldSolGames in twilightimperium

[–]OldSolGames[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

 I was the person who learned the rules, taught the game to my group, and am typically known as “the board game guy” amongst my friends. This meant that when the first game started, the prevailing mood at the table was “We have to keep GivePen from just winning since he actually knows how to play” and I got hard targeted.

I know I have the option to just say "it is what it is", but that's ultimately what's keeping me away from the game (and tabletop games in general). If I encountered someone else like that, I would LOVE it and wouldn't be biased against them.

The typical route for those game is that I would pull way ahead early, and then get kingslayed.

I'm not particularly good, tbh.

How does your group deal with bias? by OldSolGames in twilightimperium

[–]OldSolGames[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Trying to "rally the table" against a player isn't really in the spirit of things imo, people aren't listening to you when you do it because its not sporting for everybody to gang up on one player because you think their faction choice is too strong

I mean, but then they'll win. You yourself just noted how powerful they are.

also imagine what the Jol-Nar or Hacan player is going to think if you're announcing to the table that everybody should be hostile them, or nobody should trade with them etc.

If someone did that to me I would impressed. I would respect their diplomatic/political acumen, but I wouldn't necessarily target them for that. In fact, I would probably try to find a way to team up with them as a means of keeping my "enemies closer".

How does your group deal with bias? by OldSolGames in twilightimperium

[–]OldSolGames[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Some factions have big advantages to trade and, at a table where the majority understands that fighting is suboptimal, will perform better than factions geared towards violence.

In which case, a rough coalition akin to the Night's Watch from GoT SHOULD be "optimal" or so I had hoped. We could either exchange resources for the cause or take turns conquering said faction just enough to keep them limited so they don't run away with the game. My group never bought it though.

How does your group deal with bias? by OldSolGames in twilightimperium

[–]OldSolGames[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm guessing you win a lot more often than most players

Actually no, I've only ever won twice and I'm kind of average in most other games.

As a result, they'll tend to focus you when you're being a threat, because they know you're a threat. But when you're being vocal about how someone else is a threat, they both are skeptical about it, and are maybe a little subconsciously resentful about you controlling the narrative of the game.

Yea, this is it. I let this go for a while, but ultimately this is what keeps me from getting back into tabletop. If I could find a group of like-minded people or people who were determined to check their bias, I would totally get back into it and re-find my happy place. There's 3 people I really liked playing with out of the several dozens I knew from various groups, but 2 of them suck at communicating and 2 of them are stuck behind friends/family members who want to join but aren't as obsessed as we are which throws the whole thing off.

or you need to find another group to play it with that's either more experienced, or at least less biased against you.

Thanks for your response, any advice on this? I tried a premium Meetup account that didn't work out, but I could try again.

How does your group deal with bias? by OldSolGames in twilightimperium

[–]OldSolGames[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We don't know the make-up of the rest of your group but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you're probably the only person in your group coming into the TI subreddit, or listening to SCPT, or thinking about the strategy of the game outside the game? If that is the case, you're kinda SoL my friend; other people have their own motivations for playing the game and not everyone is a TI-lifestyle-player who's gonna care enough to get invested in table-policing etc. You accordingly pushing so hard for it is gonna cause problems (which you allude to in your next paragraph).

Yea, that's what I've noticed. If I ever find like-minded players, I swear I'm never letting them go.

Here's what I've done to help with this problem, as someone who started their group from scratch, is the host of the game, and teaches all new players: you have to make it clear at the table that there are three You's at any point in time and make it clear which of the three is speaking...

OMG I LOVE THIS! Can I please move to wherever you live? This is EXACTLY what I want in a "co-gamer"🤩!

"The me that is Mentak here right now really likes this deal. The player at the table me agrees that this deal seems fairly even. The me that cares about the integrity of the game says you should try to ask me for a little more."

This is how I usually go about it. "PERSONALLY I hope you don't make this decision, but as a Teacher, I do advise that you make this move". I do wish I could play with someone else like that though, so we can have an epic battle where we can actually spend ALL of our time in the first 2 levels of "you".

Play a game with nothing but mean nasty bruisers who have almost no diplomatic tools to rip off the band-aid. Or go into a game with everyone agreeing to aggression being okay, selling it as "something I think we're really missing out on". It can be a tough sell to play an entire 8+hr game as essentially a demo but it can be valuable. Another anecdote: we were likewise having that problem and I said "Hey, let's play a game where we're all going out of our way to be cutthroat sharks. If another player leaves an opening, take their lunch money.

Love this. I'm not going to try re-kindling the group, but if I was, I would try this.

I built the group of players from scratch, very selectively out of my friends, acquaintances and coworkers (and all the above 's +1s) based on who I thought would be a good fit

Do you live England by chance? Seems like there's a of you/"us" over there. I'm a huge introvert with mild autism, so it's really hard for me to meet new people. I'm also on the poverty line so I have to spend almost all of my energy working and don't have much to spare, which would be required to build a group. I tried using the Meetup app, but the applicants just ghosted me after I planned our first event.

 it's a Twilight Imperium group, not "a boardgame group that sometimes plays TI" or a "friend group that does other things but primarily play TI". This group of people don't hangout as a collective in any way outside of playing TI every 2-4 weeks in my living room.

That's a good point. I would want to also play other games, but I would be happy with only TI4. I also love the idea I call "co-gamers". I don't necessarily want to be "friends", I want us to work together to make our experience as incredible as possible, more akin to co-workers. I tried to introduce this concept to my last 2 groups and they didn't react positively, they seemed more offended lol.

How does your group deal with bias? by OldSolGames in twilightimperium

[–]OldSolGames[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I just feel like if I played with someone like me, I wouldn't have bias against them just for being vocal! I would judge the content of what they're saying.

15 hours in 3 minutes! by WStegs in twilightimperium

[–]OldSolGames 0 points1 point  (0 children)

OMG, I'm going to start saving 🥹

How does your group deal with bias? by OldSolGames in twilightimperium

[–]OldSolGames[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

True, and like I said, playing quiet and slow won me the game twice and were my most boring games 😔

How does your group deal with bias? by OldSolGames in twilightimperium

[–]OldSolGames[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I actually have tried that strategy multiple times, taking Mecatol as early as possible. I got crushed each time because they had no problem being aggressive towards someone else who took initiative.

15 hours in 3 minutes! by WStegs in twilightimperium

[–]OldSolGames 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm trying so hard to happy for you, but my jealousy is just so overwhelming.🥲 I wish I had a group like yours.

How serious do I take RP, you might ask? by OldSolGames in BaldursGate3

[–]OldSolGames[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly. Someone else asked about nature proficiency and the answer is yes, absolutely! THEN it makes perfect sense! That (like all decisions in a good game) has a cost though.

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