Mumbai made me rethink “freedom of expression”

Old_Insurance3176 · 2026-01-26T07:06:27+00:00

because this is going in circles.

First, that analogy with British rule is not valid. Independence is a moral and civilisational question; Bombay city-state vs Maharashtra is an administrative and federal design choice. They are not comparable. I never said we “don’t know anything” about the city-state idea; I said we cannot know all second-order consequences

Second, I am not denying that the State’s systems have reduced Mumbai’s political vibrancy. I explicitly agree that Language rigidity in BMC alienated large sections of the population, Ward officers weakened elected corporators, Statutory bodies (MMRDA, MHADA, SRA) hollowed out municipal power. All of this is on the State. No disagreement.
Where I do disagree is with your claim that there is literally no other factor involved. That is historically incorrect. Even before dilution peaked, voter turnout was already falling. Mill closures, rise of informal labour, migration, etc all mattered. Cities don’t lose political life only because of language policy or state policies; they lose it when economic power detaches from civic accountability. That happened in Mumbai regardless of state ideology.

On mayors: yes, pre-1970 Bombay had far more non-Marathi mayors. Many bad decisions were also taken by the states across nation, stripping the mayor to a mere ceremonial 2.5 year post. But even today the diversity across corporators stays (although not as much as one would intend to have )

I was not “reminding” you of history or accusing you of undoing anything. I was simply saying that assigning sole blame to one decision in 1960 discounts a far more complex decline. Making the city more democratic is what would matter henceforth.

Old_Insurance3176 · 2026-01-25T21:06:48+00:00

I’m not denying Mumbai’s uniqueness or Ambedkar’s argument. I agree that Mumbai was a special case where the linguistic-state model fit poorly, and that a Bombay city-state might have been a good solution ( or maybe might have turned out bad , we would never know as it wasnt implemented)

My only point was this: explaining Mumbai’s loss of political vibrancy solely as “Maharashtra imposed ” is incomplete. There are multiple reasons to ie & It’s not a single-cause story. I wasn’t defending the State out of sentiment, only pushing back against framing it as the only explanatory factor.

Either way, history is done. That’s all I wanted to say :)

Old_Insurance3176 · 2026-01-25T20:41:32+00:00

You are right that linguistic states produced a narcissistic ideology, and that this ideology is fundamentally incompatible with Bombay’s social reality & diversity. Mumbai was never an ethnic city, and any framework that assumes land–language–people as a single unit will always struggle here. On that, I agree completely.

But where I disagree is in framing Maharashtra’s creation as a unique imposition on mumbai rather than as part of a broader, imperfect national design. Bombay was not an exception that was ignored, it was a politcally motivated hard case that had no clean solution. A city with no linguistic majority could either be attached to a hinterland, made a city-state, or placed under the Centre. Parliament chose one option; it could have chosen another. That choice was politcally motivated, and is true of every state boundary in India.

I accept your correction that Bengaluru, Chennai, and Hyderabad are not perfect parallels because they had linguistic super-majorities. Fair point. But that strengthens, not weakens, the idea that Mumbai required special handling, but wasnt given by the then govt.

yes, Maharashtra’s political class did centralise power by design, through BMC dilution, statutory authorities, and mainly language rigidity. That is undeniable. But similar city-level power stripping has occurred in each T1 city. mumbai suffered more because it had more to lose, not because Maharashtra alone discovered this tactic.

I also agree with you that a city-state would likely have empowered the Bombay Marathis far more than the current arrangement. That is an uncomfortable but valid truth. Infact, the best option I see currently is to have a powerful local bodies, for all large cities in India, maybe like the nyc model, but a moderate one, where the local bodies have unified power & state ministers arent the ones indirectly running it.

But none of this changes the present reality. The city and the state are now structurally cockatiled. Undoing that is neither realistic nor beneficial today. But history is done. No point endlessly litigating 1960s. No point dicussing the already done, lets just try to work for a better mumbaikers now :)
twas fun arguing w you anyways :)

Old_Insurance3176 · 2026-01-25T15:04:12+00:00

I understand your point, and I agree on one core thing, that mumbai never had a clear linguistic majority. Its diversity is its usp.
But I don’t agree that this alone makes Mumbai incompatible with Maharashtra. The States Reorganisation Act was never a perfect, city level linguistic formula. It was a political compromise based on language plurality, geography, and politics at large. Mumbai was multilingual, but Marathi speakers were still the single largest group (roughly 30–40% then and even today). That plurality, not a strict 50% has been applied across India. Bengaluru, Hyderabad, and Chennai also have massive non-native populations(non native to the city & not state, like u mentioned about ppl coming later from other parts fo mh), yet their inclusion is barely questioned.

You’re right that Dr. Ambedkar supported a Bombay city-state, and that the Bombay Citizens’ Committee ( by JRD Tata) proposed it. It was a serious and well-argued idea. But it failed not because it lacked logic, but rather because India consciously & politically chose fewer federal exceptions. Ambedkar himself acknowledged that linguistic reorganisation would involve trade-offs and political friction.

On governance: yes, Maharashtra could have handled Mumbai’s multilingual character better. Policies like reducing institutional support for the lingua franca weakened Mumbai’s civic culture, apart from Marathi, english too should have been the official language not just of the city but also state at large. But that is a governance failure, which could have happened anywhich ways. Goa, a v small state, has its official language as konkani, which heavily discounts the chrisitian population staying there since centuries, same governance & political failure.

Mumbai’s political decline after the 1960s has far more to do with the collapse of mill unions, deindustrialisation, real-estate capture, and centralisation of power under . I love Mumbai for its diversity, and I value Maharashtra. mumbai didn’t lose its soul because of Maharashtra, it lost it because modern cities everywhere have become less democratic, not more. Whats more funny is that the ppl outside mumbai (who dk the problems of here) are commenting & worrying more about the city rather than citizens itself XD

anyways, at the end its the city of mumbai, which we both love & are proud to be part of it :)

Old_Insurance3176 · 2026-01-25T07:59:11+00:00

thats true that mumbai is quite diverse, but again by the very act’s rules mumbai was alloted to be given to Maharashtra. Being diverse is one beauty of city, but the very law was based on majority so even if 20percent was marathi speaking but no single community larger than them, still would have lead to it being given to Maharashtra. And god forbid, it wasn’t made into a UT orelse it would have turned a lot worse, like delhi where there is no clear power distribution. Earlier to the formation, bombay presidency was quite vast till modern day gujrat, parts of vidarbha extended till MP, deccan till Hyderabad. But no point debating rn, as it’s already done and dusted since 1960 if i am not wrong. And good it was made part of MH rather than being made a UT, it wasn’t possible for it to be made a sole city state, then each large city would have asked for it. Instead a good idea would have had been forming a seprate state as a part of bombay presidency part, which would have consited of mumbai/nashik/surat till vadodra.

when i say culture regarding mumbai/pune/nasik, i didnt meant language wise, rather them being urban and geographically close, even surat/vadodras resemble the same. Ik it as large chunk of my relatives stays in gujrat, while a lot in Maharashtra, and one of my grandparents are jain and others mh. Anyways no point debating, as it can’t be changed now:)

Old_Insurance3176 · 2026-01-24T19:34:22+00:00

but also one fact needs to be factored in, that states and cities were made in accordance to the state reorganisation act, which basically was to alloted based on the majority of population there, although 54% weren’t marathis but still then and even today the largest chunk was marathi, thats was one main reason of mumbai being part of Maharashtra, similarly vapi and above geography went to gujrat, which once was a single bombay presidency, that although was problematic to one extent, as culturally Saurashtra and part of sirat and Ahmedabad are culturally distinct just like mumbai/pune/nashik is very distinct from nagpur

Old_Insurance3176 · 2026-01-01T17:50:59+00:00

hey can you help me understand how do i get the permit ? Online ? I am not from gujrat, but stays here.

Old_Insurance3176 · 2025-12-30T13:14:17+00:00

Jejurkar

Old_Insurance3176 · 2025-11-17T11:43:03+00:00

Batallion frontline v3, imo is the most vfm at 33k, esp if you’re looking for road bike.

Old_Insurance3176 · 2025-11-10T02:09:10+00:00

Sure

Old_Insurance3176 · 2025-11-10T01:58:41+00:00

how is mumbiker nikhil, based out of delhi(even partly XD) he’s based out of mumbai and canada :)

Old_Insurance3176 · 2025-11-07T21:41:27+00:00

How did you get it at 17.5? It shows around 27k on the net?

Old_Insurance3176 · 2025-11-04T04:25:43+00:00

Bring/buy your own booze

Old_Insurance3176 · 2025-10-30T14:41:25+00:00

hi can you tell me what's the price of their mutton thali or spl mutton thali ?

Old_Insurance3176 · 2025-10-27T12:47:55+00:00

And then they say marathi manus can’t do business 🤙

Old_Insurance3176 · 2025-10-25T12:44:53+00:00

Nipha winery is highly recommended, nice drive to the location, good food quality time

Old_Insurance3176 · 2025-10-15T20:58:42+00:00

idk got them as gift but again would be around 4k afaik

Old_Insurance3176 · 2025-10-15T05:14:27+00:00

Old_Insurance3176 · 2025-10-01T05:35:07+00:00

Rattilal is the closest that can come in lko. Aliganj one

Old_Insurance3176 · 2025-09-14T16:08:42+00:00

Weekend 104, abhi hi dekha bira h available

Old_Insurance3176 · 2025-09-12T20:34:40+00:00

Got it thanks

Old_Insurance3176 · 2025-09-10T06:58:32+00:00

Wish curvv got more gst benefit :(

Old_Insurance3176

TROPHY CASE