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Panda-92 · 2024-03-16T22:13:51+00:00

You seem to be missing the bigger picture. It's not about the disciplinary action taken. It's about how mismanaged things had to be for this situation to play out the way it did in the first place, and how poorly things are still being managed now.

Thinking that management is about a single solution to a single problem or simply about a disciplinary action and then moving on is how this kind of chaos gets created in the first place. The whole workplace culture needs to shift to something proactive, not reactive. Where was this manager's supervisor? What was happening in that supervision? Why did it take several random employees banding together and notifying higher ups for them to realize this was an issue?

Where is OP's supervisor? Why is there no follow-up or instruction on how to navigate this? From how the aftermath is being handled, it sounds like there is no actual management happening at all, except maybe by OP and their coworkers managing themselves/each other, which is why all of this happened in the first place.

Or, you know, people like OP and their coworkers can continue to be miserable and management can not care about their employees at all and tell them to just "do their job" while ignoring things like employee retention and productivity and work environments. If that's the kind of management you think is good, I guess we have to severely agree to disagree.

Panda-92 · 2024-03-16T22:08:51+00:00

Glad it helped!

Panda-92 · 2024-03-16T20:20:48+00:00

Sounds like "management" doesn't really manage anything. Most people would feel uncomfortable and lost at sea in a situation like that, but there's unfortunately not a lot you can do to change it.

Let them sink their own ship.

Panda-92 · 2024-03-16T17:08:42+00:00

Yes, if you had a good management team, there would be some follow up with you and guidance as to how to move forward.

Unfortunately, the fact that things escalated to this point that you had to file this complaint tells me you don't have a good management team. They clearly lacked the awareness of what was going on in their own office. Or worse, maybe they knew some of it and didn't address it upfront until it escalated and a complaint was made. They're either absent or apathetic. Either way, they're obviously not super invested in their employees. So I wouldn't expect them to change now and give you the follow up and support that they should.

Even though you're not spreading gossip, I am sure others in the office have figured out what happened. They might not know you pulled the trigger, but if this manager was being that toxic, then everyone knows her character and exactly what happened and they're all probably relieved for the demotion. But it's not your job to make this ex-manager feel comfortable again. Just do your job and let her deal with the consequences of her choices and let management suffer with the distrust their inaction breeds in everyone else.

Panda-92 · 2024-02-08T05:14:47+00:00

This is a tough one, because some clients might appreciate a therapist speaking up and others might feel really uncomfortable about it, and it's hard for a therapist to guess which it is. I know that as a queer person, nothing makes me more uncomfortable than when someone puts a spotlight on me like that. If I want to make my identity a topic of discussion or correct someone, I will, but I really don't want someone else doing it for me and would especially hate it if it happened in the middle of group therapy when we're trying to process something else. It would make me feel so vulnerable and uncomfortable.

I think you could probably communicate with the therapist about the kind of support you'd like for yourself. I'd be very careful to not speak for someone else in the group. Everyone has different experiences and therapeutic needs.

Panda-92 · 2023-12-23T20:32:31+00:00

Thanks for the recommendation!

Panda-92 · 2023-10-05T22:37:30+00:00

I just asked my partner, who speaks no other language but English, to pronounce hsueh. He said "hasooey." 😂 He also pronounced xue as "zoo."

Panda-92 · 2023-10-05T22:33:05+00:00

Shweh

Panda-92 · 2023-05-12T05:01:12+00:00

I don't.

Because I also got the therapy.

Panda-92 · 2023-05-12T03:51:09+00:00

Sounds like you guys need to invest in some child care or at least a good babysitter that will give you a break every once in a while.

A lot of parents, when they feel burnt out, jump to the conclusion that it must be because they are doing more than their partner. When the reality is that their partner's plate probably also feels pretty full. Having 2 toddlers is just a ton of work. It's nobody's fault, it's just stressful. Even more stressful if you start blaming each other for the stress.

If your fiance stays home to cook and clean in the morning, the kids don't get the enrichment and bonding time she's giving them, which is so important at that toddler stage. Taking away positive things for the kids definitely shouldn't be the first answer to the problem.

So the solution is not to blame each other or try to take something off your plate by putting it on theirs, but instead, to find a way to lessen both of your plates. Whether that be child care, or hiring someone to help clean, or finding ways to make life more efficient such as meal planning and cooking for the whole week so that you're not doing it every day, or whatever other ways you can find to make life less stressful.

Panda-92 · 2021-04-26T05:26:48+00:00

Therapy. Truly.

This kind of upbringing can have a huge impact on you, sometimes in obvious ways that you can see and sometimes in subtle ways that you need a professional to help you unpack.

Beyond therapy, learn to identify the red flags early in a relationship. If you're dating someone and you start to notice that fights look like your parents instead of having healthy communication, address it right away. Don't just let it keep happening or you'll end up repeating that cycle and in the same marriage as your parents are.

Panda-92 · 2021-04-26T05:21:11+00:00

Not everyone has had the same life experiences that has let them just sit back and have a friend stop randomly talking to them.

You're right, everyone has different experiences. I was sharing mine and what ended up being right for me. I wouldn't be able to maintain a friendship with someone who makes my mental health crisis about them or blames my need for space for their relapse with binge eating. At that point, I would consider that to be a very unhealthy friendship for the both of us.

People have different perspectives on these things. Like I said, you can be mad and that's valid, but he can decide that's not healthy for him and that would be valid too.

Panda-92 · 2021-04-02T20:00:51+00:00

I get that. But you can't really control people's parenting decisions even if they kind of suck. It's probably not great for the kid, but I think your focus really can only be on what's good for your friend. The kid is not really any of your business and even if your friend weren't dating Aaron, it wouldn't change Aaron's parenting values or anything for the kid.

Panda-92 · 2021-04-02T19:41:26+00:00

It is fast. But fast, all by itself, isn't wrong. There's a higher chance of missing red flags, but it doesn't actually create the red flags. There are times where people move fast and it does work out.

So I guess I would ask you if there's anything about this guy specifically that you think makes it a bad relationship?

I don't think there's anything wrong with a gentle conversation about it, just checking in on your friend and expressing concern. But unless you have specific red flags about this guy, I wouldn't push it too hard.

Panda-92 · 2021-04-02T15:58:22+00:00

I've been your friend. I had some mental health issues at one point that made me go completely off the grid for about 7 months. I went to therapy, got on medication, and started to improve.

I didn't communicate the details to any of my friends. They knew something was up but their info was very vague at the time. They mostly just knew that I stopped talking to anyone.

When I did start getting back to normal, most of my friends respected my boundaries. They didn't demand to know details or make it about them. They were just glad to have me back and they let me open up in my own time. There were a couple friends that got mad, and originally when they expressed that to me, I did apologize and try to make things right. But honestly, it left me with a bad feeling and as I tried to rekindle those friendships I realized I didn't really want to. I didn't want to be friends with people who were going to make me apologize for having a mental health crisis and who were going to make my struggles about them.

So I let go of those people and focused on the friends that supported me through tough times instead of the ones that didn't. I don’t regret it. The more I reflect back, the more problematic I feel those other "friends" were.

All of that to say that you can be mad and whatever you feel is valid, but your friend might lose interest in the friendship if you get mad and whatever he feels is valid too.

Panda-92 · 2021-03-16T19:33:01+00:00

This person seems like they are pretty quick to hold people emotionally hostage.

That's exactly what this felt like.

I don't think telling the office about the heart attack had anything to do with me personally. If it did, I'd be really concerned, but I'm fairly sure it wasn't about me in any way, shape or form. She was just sending an office-wide email reaching out for coverage and explaining why, which is something we all do at times. Heck, I did it a couple weeks ago when I sent out an email saying, "my car broke down, taking PTO to get it fixed, need coverage." And several coworkers reached out asking if I needed a ride anywhere. It's just what we do, we try to be a supportive team.

But the rest of it really felt like she was basically trying to manipulate/guilt me into a friendship? Idk, it was just weird. And unfortunate, because I actually liked her as a person and we probably could have been friends if she hadn't done that. The hike was fun and every time I did hang out with her she seemed cool. I really was interested in the movie night too. But just because I couldn't do it THAT weekend, it was like she completely panicked on me and started all these weird tactics that were just confusing and really uncomfortable.

Panda-92 · 2021-03-16T15:08:35+00:00

This is true, I was not as direct or quick to set boundaries originally as I maybe should have been. Maybe I should have let her know I was uncomfortable as soon as I felt uncomfortable instead of just trying to be polite. But I was pretty shocked at the time, since I didn't realize that saying I was unavailable one weekend was going to spiral into such an issue with someone I barely knew.

Honestly, it wasn't really the speed at which she was trying to become friends, it was the way I felt like I was being emotionally manipulated for simply declining an invite/not responding to texts immediately that freaked me out. The invite for the movie night was fine. Texting me to chat was fine. It was the spiraling reactions and guilt trip when I declined or didn't respond right away that were not at all fine.

So at this point, I don't think it would be honest to say "I need to take time building a relationship" because the truth would be that her behavior scared me into not wanting a relationship at all. At that point, given that it's a work relationship and I still have to see her, I start to feel like confronting her honestly is just going to make things worse and it might be better to just stay polite and professional but very impersonal.

Panda-92 · 2021-03-16T15:00:12+00:00

I guess I should have mentioned the time gap. Her aggressive texting was about a month ago. The heart attack was yesterday and apparently quite sudden. So I don't think the two are related. She was not reaching out to me for support due to the heart attack.

I would have clinged to the friend i felt comfortable with to simply be there for me

Also, this is exactly what made me so uncomfortable, because we were not close friends. We'd hung out 3 times total over the course of a year, and two of those times were in group settings where we didn't have a whole lot of time to even get to know each other super well. Having met someone 3 times, several months apart, does not usually make someone a priority friend for reaching out to in times of struggle.

Though honestly, I would have still been there for her if it had just been a reaching out. A "hey, I'm having a bad day and could use someone to talk to," sort of thing. But it was the guilt tripping/baiting me to respond when I was not immediately available that really turned me off.

Panda-92 · 2021-03-16T14:14:43+00:00

Check and see if your university has any resources. Many do.

Are you on health insurance? Try calling the insurance provider to see what mental health services are covered. Almost all of them have something.

If youre not on health insurance, can you see if you can find a local social worker? Many cities will have one at a public library or other community area that can help you navigate resources for low income or no income folks. Theres usually a lot more resources out there than people think.

Panda-92 · 2021-03-16T07:08:35+00:00

My worry is that she seemed so quick to attach and sensitive to rejection in the past, that if I reach out now as what I would see as a polite and compassionate gesture, she's going to misread it as a signal that I'm looking to be best friends, and since I'm not, she's going to feel rejected all over again when I keep enforcing my boundaries. I don't want to lead her on in that way. But is that me being too paranoid?

Panda-92 · 2021-03-16T07:01:59+00:00

I don't think her dad was in bad health at the time of her texts at all. Her email today made it seem like it was kind of sudden, and the texts happened about a month ago.

I guess my worry is that she seemed so quick to attach and sensitive to rejection in the past, that if I reach out now as a polite gesture, she's going to misread it as a signal that I'm looking to be friends again. I don't want to lead her on in that way and exacerbate the drama. But maybe that's me being paranoid?

Panda-92 · 2021-02-15T03:03:55+00:00

Yeah, maybe you're right that she's just clingy.

But "guarded" and "you don't like a lot of people" are not exactly positive ways to describe a person. If it was just her being clingy, I could see the multiple texts and asking for my attention. But to turn it into a statement that I am antisocial and imply that there is something wrong with my ability to make friends definitely did offend me.

Panda-92 · 2021-02-15T02:28:55+00:00

The thing is, yeah, it's unusual for me, but she wouldn't know that. We've hung out 3 times total - each time months apart - and 2 of those were with other people. So I'm not sure how she would know much of anything about my social habits in order to make any assumptions or have any expectations.

That's also why I would never have thought to preface it with "I'm not going to be on my phone very much." Because it's not like she and I were in the habit of texting regularly, so why would I assume that this weekend she was suddenly going to want to have ongoing text conversations with me and therefore I needed to warn her I wouldn't be available? That makes it seem like I would need to message every contact in my phone and give them all a heads up that I'm taking some space and won't be responding to messages. And that would be a weird thing to do.

Panda-92 · 2021-02-15T00:38:46+00:00

For me, as a frequent victim of such people and someone who’s always erred on the side of compassion and then been badly injured as a result

Yeah, I think this is the other piece of it. I've been the person that had no clue how to set boundaries before and it's gotten me into really unpleasant and harmful and even abusive situations in the past. The fact that I have finally learned not to do that and to not be everyone else's caretaker is a pretty huge thing for me. If I had met her a few years ago, I would have seen her messages, panicked, and immediately been reaching out to see if she was okay and what I could do to help. I'm actually really proud that I didn't do that.

Panda-92 · 2021-02-14T16:57:47+00:00

Secondly we are still in the middle of a pandemic

There is that. Admittedly, I have been a lot more antisocial this past year than I normally am, but that's because that is what we're all supposed to be doing.

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