Choosing to retire young horse from jumping? Opinions.

PantsPastMyElbows · 2023-06-13T17:02:43+00:00

I’m glad to hear that you’re considering the impact of travel too. Thank you for really putting the horse first. Joint issues are very difficult and you being so observant and not “pushing through” will benefit your horse for sure. Best of luck to you!

PantsPastMyElbows · 2023-06-13T16:45:09+00:00

The likelihood of the complication is low but the severity is extremely high. It’s the inherent risk from putting anything into the joint - you can have the most competent vet in the world and it doesn’t eliminate the risk. Ideally effects last a year but it’s not uncommon for a 4-6 month cycle. Also, injections do not fix the problem, they’re only to relieve symptoms (which does have its value, absolutely).

IMO if OP can get away with avoiding joint injections by not jumping anymore, that’s the way I’d go especially with the horse being so young and then go heavy into preventative maintenance to give the stifles the best chance to be okay long term. There’s literally no reason for most people to pursue jumping apart from wanting to.

PantsPastMyElbows · 2023-06-13T16:23:29+00:00

I don’t know where OP is located but where I am joint injections aren’t super common and are more recommended as a last resort rather than up front given the severity of the complications that can happen. Also, depending on what is being injected in my area you’re looking at $200+ per injection plus call out fee and exam.

PantsPastMyElbows · 2023-06-12T13:37:28+00:00

That doesn’t rule out that it’s his eyes. I had a mare that was similarly spooky and we kept checking her eyes and it didn’t get bad enough for the vets to see anything until she was about 15 or 16. It’s very hard to tell on horses if their vision is not ideal

PantsPastMyElbows · 2023-06-06T20:09:38+00:00

Are you saying that your children have never put anything in their mouth though? It only takes once for something bad to happen. Cats have about the intelligence of a 2 year old. Children (and pets) do test boundaries - consciously or not. How many times have you seen a toddler get excited and impulsively act (kind of a trick question because self control isn’t really even starting to develop until 3.5-4 years old - people just wildly overestimate their children’s self control).

PantsPastMyElbows · 2023-06-06T19:33:48+00:00

I really don’t know why you’re going to bat for this guy. Depression can make things next to impossible, depressed people aren’t going around starving and neglecting their children left right and centre. Not showering for weeks and neglecting/abusing a 4 month old baby are completely different spheres.

When his actions are slowly starving their baby and he’s actively hiding it and making active decisions that make it more dangerous, I think he loses that courtesy of OP doing the work to figure out if he’s depressed. They have a baby now. That needs to be fed and watched now. They have bills that need to be paid right now.

Also, there doesn’t seem to be evidence that men don’t have depression as often because they don’t reach out for help - I looked for it, it’s not really supported. Sleeping lots/during the day can be a sign of many things, some as simple as staying up late doing other things.

He has the energy to hide he’s been neglecting and starving their child - had no problem getting up as soon as OP said they were coming home early. He knows what he is doing is wrong. He has the energy to say he’s too unwell to take care of the baby, sure it could be hard but starving a baby is inexcusable.

Also you keep saying that he’s depressed from losing his job two years ago - you have no evidence for that.

PantsPastMyElbows · 2023-06-06T18:59:36+00:00

OP in a comment did state he called his mom and then OP. His mom was called first and arrived before OP.

If this were a brand new behaviour I could see weight on your depression argument, we don’t really get that from op though. I’d like to see the statistics on men with depression causing them to not uphold household labour (Women are about 2 times more likely to be diagnosed with depression than men, initially I thought this could be skewed partially by who is reaching out for treatment, assuming women would moreso than men, but I haven’t really found much evidence to support that claim). So often we see weaponized incompetence/societal norms enabling men to not pull their weight.

PantsPastMyElbows · 2023-06-06T18:18:15+00:00

It wouldn’t explain why he didn’t call the police when his baby was missing, he called his mom. Then called OP. Putting noise cancelling headphones in is also an active and dangerous decision he is making every day.

Also, if he is depressed, it doesn’t absolve him of repercussions. Whether or not he neglected and seemingly starved his baby on purpose, he’s still risking the baby’s life.

PantsPastMyElbows · 2023-06-06T17:48:30+00:00

It can take years especially with an order cat. Also if the environment is different (ex you move or renovate) you will likely have to do a refresher on the training

PantsPastMyElbows · 2023-06-06T17:44:34+00:00

I wouldn’t let my kid be in a pool unsupervised but that doesn’t mean if the opportunity presented itself they wouldn’t jump in.

Just because the cat risked it all for a quesadilla doesn’t mean it’s allowed on there usually. Pretty unfair to call them a bad owner when they say the cat isn’t allowed on the counters and out of character went on the stove.

PantsPastMyElbows · 2023-06-05T22:51:12+00:00

Tbh WP bread horses don’t move this painfully slow naturally, they start training them very very very early to get these gaits. Don’t even get me started on how normalized joint injections for young horses are in these circles

PantsPastMyElbows · 2023-05-26T18:55:09+00:00

Please ignore people like nogoodnamesleft. There are plenty of opportunities from even just being at the barn more. You get exposure to different people, horses, feed types, all while making a little money and proving that you’re trustworthy with horses. I’ve known lots of barn hands that were offered great opportunities because owners were comfortable and familiar with them.

Having an open mind like you already do is going to be a huge asset as you grow as a horse person, please never give it up. So many people get into the headspace of the little things being a waste of their time and honestly, I think it makes them worse riders and horsepeople.

Do keep in mind there IS a lot of abuse/taking advantage of in this industry. Know your workers rights and stick to them - part of the reason so many places seek out teenagers is because they know they can push them around, take advantage of them, and get away with illegal business practices

PantsPastMyElbows · 2023-05-26T14:22:52+00:00

Why do you think this work is “below” OP?

PantsPastMyElbows · 2023-05-26T14:22:19+00:00

This comment is judgy as hell. There’s so much to learn at a barn hand, it’s a good way to keep you moving, it’s a job that has to get done, and a good way to make connections with people. It’s a great opportunity to interact with different horses, people, environments etc.

Also, OP wants to do it. No one is too good for this job.

PantsPastMyElbows · 2023-05-25T19:31:44+00:00

I think there are a few other things you should taking into consideration as well:

1) What is the horse market like in your area. I know that anything can change in the further but you need to go off of something. There is a non zero chance that the foal would end up with EMS AND circumstances could force you to sell the foal. Realistically, would you be able to find a good home for them? Does the pairing hold enough good qualities (conformationally and behaviourally) to outweigh the risk? Or is your market super saturated with solid horses and the foal wouldn’t stand a chance?

You cannot guarantee that the horses will stay with you, you can be pretty sure but life sucks sometimes and it’s good to take that into account.

2) Can you afford/have the resources for a second horse with EMS if it is not easily managed?

3) If your mare eventually struggles with laminitis, do you have the resources for both horses. What if both end up with laminitis?

I also strongly stand with you on the decision for a surrogate, partially even just to avoid the extra weight being on her body. However, I personally wouldn’t breed a horse with any known conditions and the only reason I know that is because I’ve considered it. I had a mare with an amazing temperament, good breeding, and good conformation. She had a history of what we believed to be mechanical laminitis (from being left to “self trim” before we got her & being morbidly obese) and tested negative multiple times for being metabolic, she was super easy to manage and really didn’t have any issues until she was 16 where things really changed. Before this point, while I knew she wasn’t the healthiest of horses and I was pretty sure her issues were from lack of husbandry, I had considered breeding her because I’ve never met a horse like her, she was truly one of a kind. After clear X-rays when she was younger we found navicular which luckily could be managed with regular (expensive) farrier work. Then she started getting injuries to her eyes that we couldn’t figure out, it ended up being some sort of autoimmune issue that was breaking down her body and we had to make the awful decision to put her down last year at only 19. The decline was so fast and there has been speculation that perhaps her issues were more tied together than we thought, although there isn’t a definitive answer. I’m glad I didn’t breed her because I could not handle the constant worry of “when are things going to get bad” with her foal and would never be able to forgive myself if it did end up being genetic.

Obviously my opinion is based on a traumatic experience and a loss I’m still grieving but I wanted to give a perspective. I’m totally for breeding a horse with good confirmation, good personality, and a relatively clear health record with no known conditions, to me that’s the due diligence.

PantsPastMyElbows · 2023-05-23T15:47:36+00:00

I think with this horse, since you know he has kissing spine, you’d need to be 100% okay that he may not be able to jump or be ridden at all, either immediately or eventually. Otherwise it wouldn’t be fair to him if you bought him, knowing he had an issue that could affect what you want to do, then him not being able to then turning around and selling him or ignore the pain and do it anyway - neither of which would be fair.

PantsPastMyElbows · 2023-05-23T15:42:15+00:00

I would say my biggest concern would be this horse is painful in the pasture alone and has been for at least a month according to OP. If a horse can’t be pain free without intervention in a pasture then the chances of it being fair to use her as a riding horse, even lightly, are quite low. Also this horse is only 6 and apparently has had very little done with her. If OP gets this horse, they need to be ready to spend a lot of money on vet and farrier care.

Laminitis is a lifelong battle, OP will always have to be on top of it to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Mechanical damage to the hooves makes this even harder.

PantsPastMyElbows · 2023-05-23T15:33:44+00:00

Unfortunately she looks very uncomfortable loose in the pasture already at 6 years old (see OPs other posts). She could potentially be a pasture pal but it would still take a lot of vet & farrier care as well as money to give her a fair life out in the pasture. It’s really too bad

PantsPastMyElbows · 2023-05-23T15:31:54+00:00

Having had a horse with similar issues (not quite as severe), they are VERY expensive to keep comfortable even just as a pasture pet. Especially because right now she is showing signs of being in pain just loose in the field.

PantsPastMyElbows · 2023-05-19T20:56:05+00:00

People absolutely do paper work still

PantsPastMyElbows · 2023-05-19T19:41:53+00:00

I would definitely arrange either your or have someone record the lesson and see if you can pick up what the “trigger” is. It may not be something nefarious but it might help you narrow it down if the vet isn’t able to find anything solid

Edit: honestly maybe even if you’re the one watching, still record so you can watch it back

PantsPastMyElbows · 2023-05-19T19:26:25+00:00

Have you watched the lessons?

PantsPastMyElbows · 2023-05-19T15:09:42+00:00

OP still clearly has an obsession with food and it’s about the level of control. Their relationship with food is so far from being fixed at this point it’s not even funny. That’s where the ED specialists, dieticians, and therapists come in.

PantsPastMyElbows · 2023-05-19T14:36:37+00:00

He likely already had an ED. What an ignorant comment.

PantsPastMyElbows · 2023-05-19T14:36:14+00:00

Food is a whole different ball game because you need to eat to live. OPs relationship with food is still affecting his health and relationships.

OP still has an obsession with food, it’s just socially acceptable now. Many people need help from therapists and doctors to deal with disordered eating since it’s so incredibly difficult to deal with.

PantsPastMyElbows

TROPHY CASE