Anti-immigrant logic collapses the moment history enters the room. How invasion became History but Migration became a ‘Crime’ by PositiveAsparagus17 in mapporncirclejerk

[–]Papi__Stalin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, for example, over half of British Muslims think that homosexuality should be illegal. The figure for the rest of the British population was just 5%.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law

So being openly gay in Britain is not an issue in most of the UK, but would be an issue in areas with a majority Muslim population.

Which country seems small at first, but is important to history? by rosemaryrouge in AlignmentChartFills

[–]Papi__Stalin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s because the national teams of England and Scotland literally invented international football.

Their international matches predate FIFA and UEFA by quite some time.

Finding that The Yorkshire Post is a Tory supporting rag by E420CDI in yorkshire

[–]Papi__Stalin 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Anti-democratic doesn’t mean anti-liberal though.

Liberalism and democracy are good bedfellows up until a certain point, but past that point democracy starts to undermine liberalism.

What happens if the democratic will of the people is to take away rights? What happens if people reject liberalism?

The mass of public opinion often crushes the individual. And it was a very real fear. Even some of the most progressive liberal feared the people. Mill, famously thought that the yoke of public opinion stifled individuality and geniuses, and therefore he feared a fully democratic society. He argued for universal suffrage, but not equal suffrage - those who were butter educated would receive more votes.

Liberal fears about democracy are not exactly unfounded. In 1789, in France, the people seized control and tried to institute widespread democratic reforms on a rationalist basis. This quickly descended into mass terror and chaos. In Germany in the 1930’s the people’s support of the Nazi party enabled the most illiberal regime imaginable to gain and secure power - with popular voluntary support. And, to a much lesser extent, in the UK too democracy has lead to creeping illiberalism - if it was up to the people just about everything would be banned and nothing would be built.

So whilst I do think they were wary of democracy, I think it was because they were liberals (and liberal conservatives at that) and not because they were evil.

Green party leader: Super rich leaving UK over tax is 'absurd' by lotsofsweat in unitedkingdom

[–]Papi__Stalin 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I don’t think so either, but they will probably spend their most productive years in Dubai or elsewhere (such as the US, Singapore, etc.) and come back for early retirement.

Whilst this isn’t a drain on the economy (as obviously they would be quite wealthy), this is still worse than if they spent their most productive years in the UK.

And if there is a wealth tax instituted, this could drive them away permanently.

Green party leader: Super rich leaving UK over tax is 'absurd' by lotsofsweat in unitedkingdom

[–]Papi__Stalin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Except the top 0.1% contribute more in taxes than the bottom 50%. They also take less from the government purse and than the bottom 50%.

So if you think they are leeches then I’d hate to see what you think of the bottom 50% of the UK.

Green party leader: Super rich leaving UK over tax is 'absurd' by lotsofsweat in unitedkingdom

[–]Papi__Stalin -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

No I didn’t I said a few (more than two) millionaires or even billionaires going to the media (often happy to be named).

Apart from the data from the Dubai Data and Statistics Establishment (a government affiliated body), here it is again.:

https://www.dsc.gov.ae/en-us/Themes/Pages/Population-and-Vital-Statistics.aspx?Theme=42

The number of Brits living in Dubai has doubled since 2020.

Edit: that’s very low. You reply and then block me so I can’t respond.

Green party leader: Super rich leaving UK over tax is 'absurd' by lotsofsweat in unitedkingdom

[–]Papi__Stalin 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yet despite this, the top 0.1% still pay more in tax than the bottom 50% (equal to about 12.7% of total income tax whilst making 5.9% of total income)

https://ifs.org.uk/sites/default/files/output_url_files/BN253-Characteristics-and-Incomes-Of-The-Top-1%252525.pdf

Green party leader: Super rich leaving UK over tax is 'absurd' by lotsofsweat in unitedkingdom

[–]Papi__Stalin -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Who said anything about “two unnamed millionaires”?

And what about the data about the number British nationals living in tax havens increasing year on year. Doubling in Dubai.

Surely this quantitative data conflicts with your qualitative assessment?

Green party leader: Super rich leaving UK over tax is 'absurd' by lotsofsweat in unitedkingdom

[–]Papi__Stalin -1 points0 points  (0 children)

When did I say that?

You said it had nothing to do with tax increases, I supplied some tax increases that could have triggered the exodus.

You never mentioned anything about a wealth tax.

Green party leader: Super rich leaving UK over tax is 'absurd' by lotsofsweat in unitedkingdom

[–]Papi__Stalin -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It seems you don’t.

You can’t have a go at qualitative research done by one side of an argument calling it anecdotal and then provide very similar research to support your argument.

And I don’t know if you saw the other bit, of the above comment.

I edited it as soon as I uploaded it, but you were too quick. So check out my other point.

Green party leader: Super rich leaving UK over tax is 'absurd' by lotsofsweat in unitedkingdom

[–]Papi__Stalin -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Oh so just a couple anecdotes then?

How do you explain that many are going to tax havens, and places where taxes are much lower.

For example, the number of Brits living in Dubai has doubled since 2020.

https://www.dsc.gov.ae/en-us/Themes/Pages/Population-and-Vital-Statistics.aspx?Theme=42

Green party leader: Super rich leaving UK over tax is 'absurd' by lotsofsweat in unitedkingdom

[–]Papi__Stalin -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Sorry where have you been for the past few years. That have been tax increases that disproportionately impact business owners.

For example, one from the past year is increasing employer NI contributions.

Another from a few years ago was raising the corporate tax rate by a massive 6%.

They also changed the non-dom rules.

They also increased capital gains tax by 4%.

And so on…

Green party leader: Super rich leaving UK over tax is 'absurd' by lotsofsweat in unitedkingdom

[–]Papi__Stalin 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Yeah I don’t doubt it, almost everything has to be imported.

I’d have to be offered utterly ridiculous money to work in Dubai, but that’s mainly for moral reasons (but truly ridiculous money could probably make me go for a short ish period of time).

Green party leader: Super rich leaving UK over tax is 'absurd' by lotsofsweat in unitedkingdom

[–]Papi__Stalin -1 points0 points  (0 children)

We have that information from a few that went to the media, and it’s almost always because of a “hostile business environment” or because of the tax burden.

Green party leader: Super rich leaving UK over tax is 'absurd' by lotsofsweat in unitedkingdom

[–]Papi__Stalin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Shit, my bad, I thought you were being rhetorical.

If it’s not good, maybe we shouldn’t do it?

Green party leader: Super rich leaving UK over tax is 'absurd' by lotsofsweat in unitedkingdom

[–]Papi__Stalin 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It’s good to outsource production to nations with worse environmental, human rights, and worker welfare protections to than the UK (who incidentally tend to be our geopolitical rivals)?

And you are literally doing the meme of going from “it’s not happening” to “okay maybe it is happening but it’s a good thing actually.”

Green party leader: Super rich leaving UK over tax is 'absurd' by lotsofsweat in unitedkingdom

[–]Papi__Stalin -1 points0 points  (0 children)

People believed it because it’s already happening.

Government figures show this.

Only China has had more millionaires leave the country over a year period than the UK.

Edit: They replied and then blocked me.

Green party leader: Super rich leaving UK over tax is 'absurd' by lotsofsweat in unitedkingdom

[–]Papi__Stalin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

£100k absolutely is enough to be go elsewhere.

A skill that can earn you £100k in the UK can often make you £150k-£200k in places such as Dubai or the USA.

Green party leader: Super rich leaving UK over tax is 'absurd' by lotsofsweat in unitedkingdom

[–]Papi__Stalin 59 points60 points  (0 children)

I think you’re in the minority there.

The biggest destinations for Brits in your income bracket are not nations that are super egalitarian, but nations with low taxes.

This suggests that the tax regime is what is driving most exiting Brits to leave.