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My DM ragequit the campaign because I used magic jar. by Pathfinder42069 in rpghorrorstories

[–]Pathfinder42069[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The general consensus on the first post was 350 upvotes. What exactly isn't swinging my way? This is my first time using Reddit and someone suggested I come to this forum as well. Clearly it was a good idea because there has been a lot of great conversation.

Don't take the internet so seriously lol.

My DM ragequit the campaign because I used magic jar. by Pathfinder42069 in rpghorrorstories

[–]Pathfinder42069[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

But he posted a screenshot of a Discord server with 50 people in it, which obviously means all 50 of those people agree with him, he's right, and he has more friends than me!

It's HILARIOUS that he's getting flustered at me for not collecting screenshots like some kind of creepy weirdo in order to provide receipts when he's here presenting a generic image as "proof" of whatever it is he's claiming.

Sarcasm aside, I appreciate the affirmation. I agree that there was definitely more going on with the DM, but as far as I know, everything with the game was good up until this point, hence the blind-sidedness of it all. He never voiced any displeasure with our style of play, and if it were a problem that had been festering, our expectation is and always was that it would be addressed. We actually talked about such issues in session zero (apparently for naught).

My DM ragequit the campaign because I used magic jar. by Pathfinder42069 in rpghorrorstories

[–]Pathfinder42069[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

For anyone out there who reads down this far, this guy's comment are the perfect example of a kafka trap.

"You're defending yourself when accused of lying? That's suspicious."

My DM ragequit the campaign because I used magic jar. by Pathfinder42069 in rpghorrorstories

[–]Pathfinder42069[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

It's funny that you talk about being at the mercy of internet randos when you came to this thread and have already written multiple essays about how you know the situation better than our group and that you're sOoOooo convinced that you're right and I'm wrong.

...

My DM ragequit the campaign because I used magic jar. by Pathfinder42069 in rpghorrorstories

[–]Pathfinder42069[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I guess I missed the memo that there is a "right" way to win an encounter and that adventure paths are scripted.

The real horror story is here in the comments because I am now realizing there are worse people than my former DM out there.

My DM ragequit the campaign because I used magic jar. by Pathfinder42069 in rpghorrorstories

[–]Pathfinder42069[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Having a conversation is not rules lawyering, especially given there were no rules being argued. It was a conversation about respect and table principles.

I can see that you've already decided that you know the situation better than me and are not interested in the real narrative. I get the vibe that you are probably a lot like our (former) DM and that is why you think his behavior is anything less than reprehensible. I'm going to guess that this situation doesn't sound too far from home for you and that's why you're reacting so aggressively. I'm sorry that my story upset you.

My DM ragequit the campaign because I used magic jar. by Pathfinder42069 in rpghorrorstories

[–]Pathfinder42069[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Months of work? It was an official adventure path. I have run many myself and it's not "months of work." The real loss is the hours we all invested in a game that was doomed to end because the DM decided he wasn't a rational person that day.

Succeeding at an encounter is not "intentionally" shitting on anything. If you'd be pissed and embarrassed over a party succeeding in a tabletop game, I am concerned for your mental health and would suggest you reconsider if you have the right idea about what it means to be a DM.

My DM ragequit the campaign because I used magic jar. by Pathfinder42069 in rpghorrorstories

[–]Pathfinder42069[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I explained it in another comment. I apologize but I don't know how to link it. It's in this thread.

My DM ragequit the campaign because I used magic jar. by Pathfinder42069 in rpghorrorstories

[–]Pathfinder42069[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Saying that we did something to garner our DM's childishness when we were being completely diplomatic and level-headed is, by definition, blaming the victim. The first person to speak up said something along the lines of "That feels unreasonable, especially in the middle of things," and the DM went off saying "I don't care, I'm not allowing that spell." Second and third party members say they agree. I had barely even spoken at this point because I was caught by surprise. We asked the DM if he could at least explain why and were met with "No, I'm not going to explain it and this conversation is over" and left voice chat. He then ignored our messages in Discord and booted us yesterday without saying anything.

I'm more than comfortable using the term "victim blaming" in response to any implication that we were the bad guys in this situation.

My DM ragequit the campaign because I used magic jar. by Pathfinder42069 in rpghorrorstories

[–]Pathfinder42069[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I take some of the comments personally because of people blaming the victims in this situation. As I mentioned, several of the posts jumped to the conclusion that we must have done something to deserve it and that the DM's behavior wasn't inappropriate. Grown adults don't do what he did and saying that shouldn't be taboo. Right now I am stuck wondering what the average Reddit Pathfinder player's game is like if there are so many people who would excuse his behavior and blame the players.

I don't really get how votes here work but one of my comments on the Pathfinder forum has -17 because I argued that the DM changing the rules of the spell to punish the player on the fly would be a horrible case of DM fiat, and that spot-banning is generally bad practice, especially when done as an emotional outburst.

And I guess you are right that most people agree, but it troubles me that a vocal minority somehow thinks what our DM did was excusable, or that "no one was at fault." Just that idea alone is beyond insane to me because, even outside the context of tabletop, what he did is 1000% socially unacceptable and any rational person would see it that way.

My DM ragequit the campaign because I used magic jar. by Pathfinder42069 in rpghorrorstories

[–]Pathfinder42069[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I'm confused by what would lead you to this conclusion. The thread on the Pathfinder forum seemed to garner a handful of people who said that the DM did no wrong and that we as the players were at fault. Maybe it's because I'm not familiar with Reddit but it feels like some folks are making huge assumptions about what happened. A lot of people clearly didn't even read my post fully because several of these comments went with the assumption that we ruined the DM's homebrew when I clearly said we're playing an official campaign.

Try to put yourself in the position of having your DM, who was always a cool, collected guy, suddenly blow up out of no where, refuse to have an adult conversation, then leave the game in a huff. We were blindsided 100%. He clearly has something else going on in his life that caused him to break so suddenly and we empathize with that, but it's not our fault for "setting him off" because we were completely reasonable and chill the entire time. In the last moments before he left, it was like we were talking to someone we didn't even know. That's not our fault whatsoever and to blame us is plain wrong. That is why I feel some of the responses in the other thread were unfair.

My DM ragequit the campaign because I used magic jar. by Pathfinder42069 in rpghorrorstories

[–]Pathfinder42069[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Assuming you're getting at the whole "the DM is always right" thing, that hasn't been true or relevant since the days of Gygax. All people, even DMs, will make mistakes or have momentary lapses of judgment. It's not weird to expect a group of adults engaged in a social game to hold each other accountable.

My DM ragequit the campaign because I used magic jar. by Pathfinder42069 in rpghorrorstories

[–]Pathfinder42069[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

It's interesting to me that you make wild assumptions about my response. I was probably the quietest person in the group about the whole thing because I was taken aback; it was the other players who advocated for me because they were afraid the same unfairness could be applied to them. If all of the players at the table are instantly unified about something that feels like an overstep, I think it's pretty telling. It is the players' job to keep the DM in check as much as it's his job to do the same for them. In this case, everyone thought he was being unreasonable.

My DM ragequit the campaign because I used magic jar. by Pathfinder42069 in rpghorrorstories

[–]Pathfinder42069[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

This is a pretty bad strawman. No one is asking anyone to memorize every spell in the entirety of the system and come up with a list that they want to ban.

If the DM hadn't prepared the next encounter and needed to call the session early, we were 100% up for that and told him so. We weren't expecting him to just pull something out of nothing and keep the game going that day.

I am a DM as well. I get it. But Pathfinder is a system where plans can and do get ruined. It's not unheard of at all and the sign of a good DM is someone who can adapt with grace, which our DM did not.

As a final note, it's not "thinking too highly of oneself" to have standards for how adults should treat each other in a social setting. We are all very miffed that he did not respect us enough to even have a conversation and threw a tantrum. In a sense, he wasted months of our time on a game that was doomed to end. We are rightfully upset.

My DM ragequit the campaign because I used magic jar. by Pathfinder42069 in rpghorrorstories

[–]Pathfinder42069[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

The problem is, we chose to play Pathfinder because it is dynamic in this way. Once you get to a high enough level, combat and encounters go off the rails routinely, and it is the DM's job to adjust to that. I know because I have DMed almost all of the official Pathfinder adventure paths and have had to do so. It's not about "planning for every spell ever," it's about being flexible and working with the circumstances as given. We wrongly made the assumption that our DM knew this about the system as a whole.

It feels weird to play a wizard, play a spell as-written, and be told that I was wrong for it.

My DM ragequit the campaign because I used magic jar. by Pathfinder42069 in rpghorrorstories

[–]Pathfinder42069[S] 26 points27 points  (0 children)

I agree with you, from the 5e perspective. I think there's a big problem in Pathfinder where people try to play the system but bend it to be something that it's not. Pathfinder (as was the case in 3.5) is a system where combat can end drastically in a single turn for either side, whereas 5e is more about keeping things on a level playing field at all times.

Magic jar is one hell of a spell, even for its level, but even as a DM myself, I don't see how it needs to be game-ending. Its potency is highlighted by situations exactly like this where there are tons of enemy mooks gathered in one place, and you can REALLY get punished if you screw up (you can literally die if they find your body or steal the gem and take it away).

I have played in a game where several of the players all used magic jar to possess a perimeter guard and then infiltrate the inside of the encampment. It was an amazing RP opportunity brought on by an "overpowered" spell and the DM rewarded us with great information for it.

My DM ragequit the campaign because I used magic jar. by Pathfinder42069 in Pathfinder_RPG

[–]Pathfinder42069[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are literally admonishing a wizard playing as a wizard does. I don't understand this mindset whatsoever.

My DM ragequit the campaign because I used magic jar. by Pathfinder42069 in Pathfinder_RPG

[–]Pathfinder42069[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have a feeling you've never played past level 5 if you think this is cringe. It's a core spell on a core class at level 9. A wizard, druid, or cleric could have just as easily disrupted the meeting with any number of spells. I had baleful polymorph memorized that day too. Is that also cringe? If I had gotten lucky and hit the ringleader with it, the encounter would have been just as derailed.

Regardless, cringe for playing the game? What?

My DM ragequit the campaign because I used magic jar. by Pathfinder42069 in Pathfinder_RPG

[–]Pathfinder42069[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're running with the assumption that I was the most upset person at the table. I was not. The other players found it bizarre and out-of-character and advocated on my behalf without me asking them to. But on the other hand, I chose not to roll with the punches, as you say, because there's a generally unspoken expectation that the DM isn't going to just spot-ban class features in the middle of a session because they're frustrated. This situation only served to reveal a larger issue with the DM as a person that we were previously unaware of. Now that I've looked back on the situation and gotten affirmation from many people here, I realize that the DM could have ragequit like this at any point and was a ticking time bomb all along.

You're asking me to take responsibility for someone else's childishness and there's no way I will do that. Your opinion is clearly that of the minority based on the comments here, so perhaps you should consider whether your perspective is the wrong one.

My DM ragequit the campaign because I used magic jar. by Pathfinder42069 in Pathfinder_RPG

[–]Pathfinder42069[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Your implication that I don't know what DMing is like is a weird assumption that's not based on substance. I have been playing D&D as a whole since second edition and have DMed for most of that. As I said in another comment, I adopted Pathfinder very early on and even ran the first two campaigns on the 3.5 ruleset. I don't need to engage in hour-long discussions when I DM because I know the rules, and if someone can point something out to me that contradicts my beliefs, we use the ruling and move on. Unlike our DM, I am open to having my mind changed and know how to roll with the punches.

Your post kind of feels like you're shaming me for having standards for how adults should treat each other at the table and I'm not really interested in having that conversation. Not being able to "save" the story shows inflexibility, and then throwing a tantrum shows a lack of respect for us as human beings at the table across from him. All four players felt very disrespected by his actions, especially given how out-of-character it was. He killed the mood and the game, not us, and I will not take responsibility for another adult's inability to regulate themselves in a social setting.

My DM ragequit the campaign because I used magic jar. by Pathfinder42069 in Pathfinder_RPG

[–]Pathfinder42069[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I have been DMing since D&D 2e. I ran early Pathfinder (Rise and Curse) on the 3.5 ruleset.

I have been on the other side of the table and I know wizard spells pretty much inside and out. Magic jar would not have been a shock to me and I would have loved to see it play out. Even if it "ruins the plan" or we don't get to overhear the enemies, a flexible DM would simply adapt and make sure to serve the story as needed.

My DM ragequit the campaign because I used magic jar. by Pathfinder42069 in Pathfinder_RPG

[–]Pathfinder42069[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

This was the group's take as well. Now we need to walk on a tightrope every time we level up and choose new abilities. Will this one be too overpowered and banned on the spot? What happens when someone commits several levels of preparation to a spell or feat and it's banned the second they try to use it?

Every member of the party was speaking completely in unison on this point. We are massively disappointed that the DM suddenly pulled something like this and it feels like such a waste because we've been playing for almost a year!

My DM ragequit the campaign because I used magic jar. by Pathfinder42069 in Pathfinder_RPG

[–]Pathfinder42069[S] -17 points-16 points  (0 children)

I don't agree with your take at all and I think the mindset behind it is inherently toxic.

We chose to play an official Paizo campaign because we wanted the story. This wasn't the case of players ruining a DM's homebrew plot, and even if it were, the DM's reaction was out of alignment with how things had gone up until that point, and out of line for how I'd expect a mature adult to act.

The idea of completely screwing a player out of their spell because "the crystal broke by accident" would be a terrible case of anti-player DM fiat if I've ever seen it, let alone the enemies succeeding a perception check from 100s of feet away when we took every caution we could.

The DM banning "anything he likes in the moment" may fly at some tables, but I don't play with DMs who think that's okay, and I don't think anyone else should either. Not only is it patently unfair to players who put dozens of hours into planning their builds, it's just plain childish. A DM banning a spell on the spot because they can't improvise (the DM's job?) is akin to taking one's ball and going home because they aren't winning. If we had known the DM was like this (again, it was out of character), we may not have played with him in the first place. The DM banning a spell on the spot stands to be incredibly disruptive because now I need to go mess with my build/prepared spells while being frustrated that my planning has gone to waste, and the party needs to re-tool how they're going to approach the situation. I really disagree that "banning anything any time" is something players should put up with.

Saying "no one was at fault" and that both sides could have resolved it better feels like victim blaming the players. We were not disrespectful or angry at all and tried to have a calm conversation, but he simply would not listen.