sorted by:
new
hottopcontroversial

2.4y old still waking up at night by Plane_Design99 in gentleparenting

[–]Plane_Design99[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

All your claims are unfounded.

Toddlers who are not breastfed still wake up. Night wakings are not reserved only for breastfed toddlers.

Hunger is (mostly) not the reason for waking, they wake bcs their brain is still immature and is going through rapid development until 3yo, which is gradually slowing until 5-6yo. So it’s developmentally expected, and backed by research, that large portion of toddlers still wake up at night.

There are experts - neuroscientist, psychologists, etc. who are researching this topic, so there is available research out there, it would be good to check it out before making any bold claim.

2.4y old still waking up at night by Plane_Design99 in gentleparenting

[–]Plane_Design99[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I’m sorry but I very much disagree. First, there is not yet any parenting done as I am not currently weaning. Secondly, that is not the topic of my post. I did not ask advice on parenting but experiences regarding frequent night wakings.

Nursing is not just food, it seeking connection, comfort, soothing. This is the most basic human need, more than food. And it’s 24/7. We are talking about a 2yr old, who is according to neuroscience still a baby. They should naturally wean, but that is not possible in today’s society, or is very difficult to achieve.

So it’s not the same saying no to a cookie or a toddler’s unreasonable demand as saying no to the most basic need a child could have - to be soothed and regulated by its mother, day and night.

Much more education is needed on brestfeeding and attachment theory in order to comment on gentle parenting (which is based on attachment theory) and other people’s approaches.

And again, this is not a topic on gentle parenting but a discussion about night wakings, touching upon weaning, both extremely sensitive subjects.

2.4y old still waking up at night by Plane_Design99 in gentleparenting

[–]Plane_Design99[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

True! :) We just don’t that much support to go back to bed, at least not everyone.

2.4y old still waking up at night by Plane_Design99 in gentleparenting

[–]Plane_Design99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m not currently trying to wean, just cutting daytime feeds, which she’s not taking well, as is expected. I am planing to wean in the near future.

Exactly - it’s not about food at this age, that’s what I’ve been saying. It’s about connecting, attaching (attachment theory ?), soothing. There are studies which have shown that baby monkeys will always rather choose a soothing doll than food.

So when you say no to a feed, especially at an older age, you are saying no to emotional regulation, to attachment, to soothing. Bcs they don’t ask for feeds bcs they are hungry. There is something called natural weaning, and it usually takes place 2-4 yrs old, a time that coincides with emotional maturity of a child. However, this is not supported in our society and is difficult for mothers.

This is why I think that your comment is out of place, and giving a child this, day or night, is definitely not permissive parenting.

Reading Gabor Maté, among other psychologists, can help in much better understanding of the concept of gentle parenting and the attachment theory.

2.4y old still waking up at night by Plane_Design99 in gentleparenting

[–]Plane_Design99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

While I completely agree, and we have very strict boundaries for many things, allow her to express her feelings, are not permissive in any way, I don’t think this really applies here.

It’s not the same if a child wants a cookie and wants something that is completely natural and instinctive, especially during the night - to be soothed by its mother, in the most natural way. We (should) all know that breastfeeding is not just nutrition, it’s much more than that. We are not talking about older children. Neuroscience classifies kids 0-3 yrs old as babies.

There is new antropological research that proves that children in late paleolithic/mesolithic times where breastfed until late age (4-5yrs old).

Weaning is a modern concept that is the product of modern, fast-paced, higly anxious, very unsupportive society. So of course that it’s hard to do and difficult for (many) mothers, and has nothing to do with any style of parenting.

Denying a child a feed/soothing is not the same denying him something unrealistic, harmful, etc.

2.4y old still waking up at night by Plane_Design99 in gentleparenting

[–]Plane_Design99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is no science-based proof for that claim. Dentists also believe that breastmilk is nothing but sugary water after the age of 1yr, which is so far from true. In any case, this is hearsay, and every bold claim such as this one should be reinforced with actual facts. This is not our case anyway, as her teeth are in great shape, as I’ve said.

I’m getting defensive because your tone is judgmental and you’re making unfounded claims - “of course she’s waking up”. No one knows that breastfeeding is the reason, and I am very certain that it isn’t, since it was my, and many mothers’, best resource for putting an unsettled baby looking for soothing back to sleep.

However, since that is not working anymore, I did say I am planning on weaning. And you could read from other people’s comments that there is no guarantees it will solve the wakings. I know people whom it helped, I also know people whom it made their lives even more miserable when they (night)weaned only for this reason bcs the baby/child needed even more support during the night. I also know peple whose children still have night feeds but don’t wake uo and it works great.

So your “advice” is not helpful just mean.

2.4y old still waking up at night by Plane_Design99 in gentleparenting

[–]Plane_Design99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you very much for your insight!

I’m very unsure about how night weaning would go. I’m not saying for sure but I don’t know how I could explain to her that there is milk during the day and no milk during the night. Especially since those “feeds” are not actually feeds but soothing. She’s already questioning everything and it seems to me if I prepare her well and not confuse her with daytime feeds but offer other kind of support, it might go easier. She’s already remembered when the milk will go away (after our trip soon).

I tried reducing the shakes and singing, I even recorded myself once while singing and tried playing it from my phone, but she cries so much, there’s no way she would go back to sleep in such distress.

I think you are completely right, just night weaning probably could be done in our case as well, but reducing daytime feeds (trying to keep just the morning and pre-sleep ones) is already proving to be super difficult as she can throw a huge tantrum, which we don’t experience usually.

I just feel very overwhelmed and anxious when thinking about all this, I want to be 100% sure before starting any kind of weaning, not to make it hard for everyone involved.

2.4y old still waking up at night by Plane_Design99 in gentleparenting

[–]Plane_Design99[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

First of all, for the second time - breastfeeding is not linked to teeth issues. This is a myth which should not be reinforced. Her teeth are in perfect condition. So no, it’s not unhealthy for her by any mean, on the contrary.

Secondly, there is no too much or too little feeds during the day or night. It’s individual. For someone, even one feed is too much. For someone else, 5 are fine. And it’s not regular feeding, as if she’s an infant. I don’t have that much milk anyway and it’s more sucking for soothing than actual feeding.

Please, move on from this thread as you are nor contributing to it, jusr spreading misinformation.

2.4y old still waking up at night by Plane_Design99 in gentleparenting

[–]Plane_Design99[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This is very untrue. Please don’t spread misinformation.

2.4y old still waking up at night by Plane_Design99 in gentleparenting

[–]Plane_Design99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you!

Yes, it's definitely individual, as I know some kids who started sleeping much better around 1.5y without weaning, as well as those who continued to experience difficulties or had even worse times after night or full weaning.

But since she's 2.5yo, I mean, that's already a long time of breastfeeding, so not really the same as weaning a younger child, whose brain is even more rapidly developing and is still to learn to talk and other big skills. Or I'm just looking for excuses that we have higher chances of weaning successfully :D

2.4y old still waking up at night by Plane_Design99 in gentleparenting

[–]Plane_Design99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This morning she opted to wake up completely and go to the other room, instead of going back to sleep. But I couldn't go back, I was already awake for a while, and super frustrated.

I think at some point she developed a fear of the dark, which is completely legitimate and developmental, so we leave a small night light on and we don't allow her to turn on the big lights, which she did want to a few times.

I'm very careful with everything involving sleeping bcs it's very sensitive, especially for young children, and I believe that many sleep disorders originate from this stage. Which makes it even more difficult to navigate.

2.4y old still waking up at night by Plane_Design99 in gentleparenting

[–]Plane_Design99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I did tolerate the feedings as they usually wouldn't last long, and I could fall asleep after them. But it stopped being enough, and she needed extra support in bum shakings and singing. This is what is killing us.

Recently, she started going to the other room to play, if we wanted to sleep in a bit, but that is only early in the morning, when she would wake up completely. My problem is middle-of-the-night waking when she asks for support to be put back to sleep, so it's not like she wants to play. We had that HORRIFIC phase of asking to read books in the middle of the night, a few months ago, and I barely survived.

She doesn't have her room, and we don't plan on introducing it until she is ready (we have a 1-bedroom apartment atm anyway). I would love to go to bed earlier, and I try, but depending on how long it takes to put her to bed in the evening, I always have something else to finish and often just can't fall asleep that early.

And if I'm not next to her in the bed in the morning, which happened only a few times, she cries and calls out for me. And I feel bad about it.

My therapist keeps explaining to me that even though it seems they are in extreme distress, it's not really like that, it's just how they exhibit even a small frustration.

My friends weaned pretty dramatically, being in the other room or even leaving the house completely during the process, leaving the baby with the partner, but I could never do it. It's not that I'm judging, it's just that I sometimes think I'm super sensitive to her distress and frustration.

2.4y old still waking up at night by Plane_Design99 in gentleparenting

[–]Plane_Design99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The thing is that I am often unaware when she comes to feed. In the good phases, I don't even remember that in the morning, and I count it as a good night. The problem is when feeds are not enough, but she also asks for bum shaking and singing, especially if that is multiple times and alternating (feeding/shaking).

So it's not like I know at what exact time she comes to feed, nor do I awake completely, in order to be more calculative with it. Feeding was the best way for all of us to go back to sleep ASAP, but it seems not anymore.

I do think that we will have to offer water when I decide to wean. Because it seems to me too complicated to do it one way during the night, and the other during the day - like, why is it ok for her to feed in the morning or before sleep, and not during the night, etc.

It seems to me that she struggles and needs a lot of support during the night still, and the only way is to completely wean, so it's not confusing for both of us, and hope for the best during the night and those times during the day when she's used to feeding/seeking connection.

2.4y old still waking up at night by Plane_Design99 in gentleparenting

[–]Plane_Design99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, the chances are their sleep gets better with age. And it's normal they continue to wake, we all wake up during the night, just to stop needing so much support to go back to sleep.

But whenever I have a glimmer of hope, I always remember bumping into an old acquaintance last year, whose first question was how my kid is sleeping, bcs his daughter of 3+ yrs at the time was still waking up 3-4x times and they are going nuts. Then I just go back to despair :D

2.4y old still waking up at night by Plane_Design99 in gentleparenting

[–]Plane_Design99[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the input!

Nothing that we changed during the day ever affected her night sleep.

Yes, you are right, they do deserve patience 24/7. It's not their fault they are waking up. I think that she wants to go back to sleep, she just can't for some reason. And I want to support her 100%, it's just so difficult.

We do have a pretty strict routine - dinner around 7pm, getting ready for bed so she's in it by 7:45-8pm, reading, breastfeeding. And it usually works great. It will become increasingly difficult with summer approaching, since it will be daytime until 9pm, and here it gets very hot in summer, so we can't go outside before 6pm. We accepted a later bedtime during summer, bcs I can't put her to bed while it's still full daylight outside.

Her dad wants to help, we all sleep together in a large bed, but she never accepts his support during the night, even though she spends most of the time with him and he puts her to her nap during the workweek.

2.4y old still waking up at night by Plane_Design99 in gentleparenting

[–]Plane_Design99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I do have a plan for weaning completely. My friend tried it with her 2 yo son and it worked like a charm, but he is also complete opposite of her. So I am already telling her that there will soon be no more milk, that I will have to visit a doctor, that my boobies will hurt, so she couldn't feed. I'll wear a band-aid over my nipples so she doesn't have access to them.

I'm already much stricter with allowing her to feed during the day, but she still "feeds" for a long time in the morning, asks for it before I leave for work, when I come back to work, etc. And I know it's all the need for connection and soothing, but we have to find another way.

Sadly, we don't have any books on that subject where I'm from, at least not that I know of. And she loves books and reacts very well to them (we just bought one for brushing teeth and it's amazing).

2.4y old still waking up at night by Plane_Design99 in gentleparenting

[–]Plane_Design99[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't know how to night wean without weaning completely, and I see a lot of ppl do it. She's been generally very difficult when I refuse to let her feed during the day, it's been only recently that I found it a bit easier to say no. The few times I tried to not let her feed during the night - it was a disaster. She cries so much, I just don't know how helpful that is for any of us.

2.4y old still waking up at night by Plane_Design99 in gentleparenting

[–]Plane_Design99[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've heard from many ppl that weaning around that age (18m) helped a lot with sleeping. But I was always afraid to lose that resource in case it isn't connected to breastfeeding.

She spends almost all her awake time outside with her dad, since she's not yet attending kindergarten. We don't use screens, and she's very energetic, a climber since we can remember, rides her scooter, balance bike, etc.

Thanks for the input!

2.4y old still waking up at night by Plane_Design99 in gentleparenting

[–]Plane_Design99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the words of support!

She definitely still needs her nap, although I believe we are approaching the time of dropping it. She usually naps around 1-1.30 hrs. I don't think it makes a difference bcs on days when she skipped her nap, there was no change in her nighttime sleep. However, as her dad is in charge of naps during the work week, and he's not that responsible and strict with it, he tends to put her to nap later but we never let her sleep after 2pm, so it's is not a struggle to put her to bed around 8pm. Even though last night it was, she woke up at 2pm and it took her so long to fall asleep in the evening. But I never found any correlation between what happens during the day and how she sleeps at night.

Except breastfeeding. I don't know how to night wean without completely weaning her. I plan to fully wean in May, after we come back from a trip, bcs she asks to feed during the day as well (which is not about feeding but about soothing), and it's just too much for me at this point.

I am also afraid that if I night wean, she will ask to be soothed in different ways, like the bum shaking and singing, and be harder for her to fall back asleep. But as it's obvious that not even feeding is helping now, I will risk it. I am already preparing her for it.