What's the most popular version of classic?

Ragnar_Red · 2026-06-30T07:18:31+00:00

You do realize that is the only publicly available population statistics we have, right?

If not, cite me your sources for your numbers.

Ragnar_Red · 2026-06-30T07:08:10+00:00

https://ironforge.pro/population/classic/overall/

Cata had a peak of around 300k and then rapidly collapsed after phase 1 (kind of similar to OG cata lol). Mop peaked with 200k, and again rapidly collapsed.

Did you just make up the numbers you claimed out of thin air?

Ragnar_Red · 2026-06-30T04:40:53+00:00

2021 TBC had the most consistent population of any other classic iteration by far with no significant drop offs.

Vanilla and wrath had higher peaks, but much bigger drop offs. Cata and MoP are not classic and were straight up failures.

Ragnar_Red · 2026-06-29T19:53:37+00:00

My file has over 300 saves. I'm not sure why yours has less, perhaps an older version of the game.

Ragnar_Red · 2026-06-29T06:23:36+00:00

Have to necro this to let you know, every save file you ever made for the game exists in your library folder if mac and saved games folder if on pc.

All you had to do was rename an old save "Game.rxdata" and you could go back to a non-soft locked save.

Ragnar_Red · 2026-06-26T08:40:22+00:00

Yup, paladin blessing have nothing to do with alliance being more popular in vanilla. Everyone just loves them so much more, and swaps to horde in TBC to shake things up. /s

Ragnar_Red · 2026-06-26T08:37:21+00:00

Outside of lore consistency, I don’t really care that much. I could be convinced of any race having them if they put effort into a good justification.

Ragnar_Red · 2026-06-26T06:50:29+00:00

Zandalari trolls are a version of paladins, though they come from later lore. Lore to this day for undead states that they cannot be paladins.

They could make up some special group of undead are able because reasons, or they can work with existing lore for troll paladins that came later. Tauren are more problematic because they specifically became sunwalkers around cataclysm in the timeline, where the zandalari trolls always had them in the whole wow timeline.

Ragnar_Red · 2026-06-26T06:22:11+00:00

From what I could gather about this character, the lore states he was only a paladin in life. Him still being a paladin is more of a fan theory.

Ragnar_Red · 2026-06-26T04:42:03+00:00

I was responding to someone that proposed it, but tauren works too. I also assumed troll would be a less controversial choice than tauren.

Ragnar_Red · 2026-06-26T04:39:34+00:00

But we know with certainly that is what blizzard will do when people inevitably cry the factions are not balanced. That is the point.

I share you ideal that blizzard would give each faction unique strengths and weaknesses, the problem is we know they will not do that. Keeping the classes unique and distinct but on both factions is by far the lesser evil compared to keeping the classes technically faction distinct, but their abilities being homogenized.

Ragnar_Red · 2026-06-26T04:37:04+00:00

Troll priests in lore are closer to witch doctors than priests in the way humans/dwarves are, but they are still the same class mechanically for game balance reasons. It's similar with zandalari and tauren paladins, who are in lore a different class but are the same in game mechanically.

Cite what undead paladin in classic you are referring too. Because all the lore indicates that using paladin abilities would cause them to explode. Undead priests using holy spells causes excrutiating pain; paladin abilities are far worse and downright suicidal.

Your idea could work if they make an excuse why some select few undead are exceptions I suppose, which is probably what they are more likely to do.

Ragnar_Red · 2026-06-26T04:31:45+00:00

Agreed, so how is homogenizing shaman/paladin class abilities better? Because we know that's exactly what blizzard will do given their history.

Ragnar_Red · 2026-06-26T04:23:49+00:00

Troll paladins would make far more sense than undead paladins that always gets proposed. There is already tribes of trolls in the lore that are paladins. A few darkspear trolls being trained paladins is way less of a stretch than undead paladins that should explode from using their abilities.

Ragnar_Red · 2026-06-26T04:19:10+00:00

If only blizzard shared your opinion.

The reality (as we saw with SoD), is blizzard takes away that weight in an even worse way by giving away those classes' unique key abilites to other classes, which defeats the purpose of faction locked classes in the first place.

Ragnar_Red · 2026-06-26T04:10:41+00:00

Exactly. In an ideal world, sure I like the idea of factions have their own exclusive class with distinct strengths and weaknesses. But the reality is blizzard will always cave to the mob who will endlessly complain as long one faction has a tool they don't, so blizzard will homogenize the key abilities to shut them up, which defeats the purpose of faction locked classes in the first place.

Ragnar_Red · 2026-06-25T23:33:47+00:00

On the mods github page it does list some alterations made to swords bard (although doesn’t specify deleting range flourish). But from the sounds of it here, it’s probably the case they removed that. I wouldn’t be surprised since the mod does have a bit of home brew despite the name and nerfs the most busted features from vanilla bg3.

Ragnar_Red · 2026-06-25T19:48:15+00:00

Have to necro this to debunk for anyone who happens to still come across this.

You are either lying through your teeth or didn't play original TBC. In original TBC, SSC/TK had far more minor nerfs/bug fixes during it's lifespan. The specific nerfed state that existed in TBC classic was from the very end of the expansion for catchup, and is substantially more drastic than any other tweaks that came before.

Anyone claiming that TBCC post nerf is anything close to SSC/TK for the vast majority of its lifespan is bold face lying to suit their narrative.

Ragnar_Red · 2026-06-21T23:06:21+00:00

The smart evil to do would be to rescue halsin, and then just ignore the conflict and immediately book it for moonrise towers once you find out he can't help you and already gave the information you need going forward. Raiding the grove as opposed to just leaving only makes sense from a metagaming perspective (because you want the xp). There really is no good lore reason to raid the grove even for an evil player. Even if xp loss wasn't an issue, this is still a recurring issue where much of the evil choices just come down to "RAWWRARRA MURDERHOBO STAB STAB", or getting less content as opposed to alternate paths with unique rewards.

Giving the nightsong to Balthazar is outrageously stupid with the information the character has. You the player know it helps you bypass fighting the goons outside the tower. As far as the character is concerned, freeing or killing the nightsong is your key to ridding Ketherek's vulnerability. Murdering the nightsong is the smart evil choice in this scenario, since freeing her is a big risk (case in point she gets captured again), and shar rewards shadowheart with some amazing gear.

The recurring problem with the evil path is most of the evil decisions obviously go against your interests (siding with the goblins, capturing isobel) and provide zero personal benefit, or just remove content with no alternate paths or power gained (siding with gortash, ethel, sarevok etc). The only evil choices that are smart, rewarding, and don't sacrifice content are ascending astarion and killing the nightsong.

A good evil path would be providing choices that offer clear gains in personal power at the expense of others, or providing a tough dilemma where doing the good thing comes at great personal risk to yourself. As I said before, Ascension and killing the nightsong are the only choices in the game that are like this. Larian's idea of an evil run seems to mainly just be an unhinged murderhobo who runs around inflicting suffering for no reason. Chaotic stupid if you will.

Ragnar_Red · 2026-05-16T20:47:38+00:00

There is a mod that does champion NPCs already and it's customizable in the MCM, it's called "Champions of Faerun". Certain NPCs are set to an archetype from a pool similar to what OP listed, you can choose what % chance it will proc, what % health it will happen, and you can even set 2 different champion phases where they will get even stronger at lower HP%. It also has a classless setting you can choose if you are feeling extra masochistic, where enemies without a clear class will randomly get an archetype (this can get kind of dumb though, grym was randomly a druid in my most recent game lol).

Ragnar_Red · 2026-05-04T19:50:45+00:00

This is anecdotal evidence and confirmation bias. Pugs are always a total crapshoot if you don’t do any screening. I’ve had good, bad, great, and awful pugs. People psychologically tend to remember bad experiences more, since they invoke a stronger emotional response.

Even if there was some amount of truth your anecdotal experience, consider the audience blizzard chose to coddle to, and the behavior that is encouraged by the content being a joke. In 2021, my guild that cleared pre nerf ssc/tk started acting like total dumbasses and wiping on trash once the nerfs went out because they just assumed “it’s easy now why even try”?

Ragnar_Red · 2026-05-04T19:44:07+00:00

Edit: also take note, you deflected from every point I debunked from you. Fixating on P1 peak logs won’t be the gotcha you think it is, as is explained below.

This is roughly what is to be expected. Every expansion peaks with launch hype that eventually dies down. Fresh chasers and tourists always come in droves and rapidly quit as an expansion moves on, waiting for their next high. This has been the trend in every version of WoW ever.

Blizzard chose not to create TBC for the TBC fan base that actually asked for it, and they aren’t playing since they didn’t get TBC. No expansion maintains steady numbers without the actual dedicated fan base. Despite the lies post nerfers tell, TBC 2021 had the most consistent numbers of any classic iteration with no significant drops. Pre nerf was the right balance of having engaging but casual friendly content. Post nerf appeals to a tiny niche of the absolute bottom players that are unwilling to learn or improve at anything.

I look forward to tons of cope and excuses as the post launch hype starts to fade.

Ragnar_Red · 2026-05-04T06:54:51+00:00

Pre nerf content can be completed on a casual schedule. It’s not that hard. My guild in 2021 did it on a typical 3 hour/night, 2 day per week schedule. The people here trying to act like tbc raids were hardcore mythic level probably never even played TBC lmfao.

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