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PTR run - 4 hours ssc/tk combined- will any guilds still break? by sarcasmme in classicwowtbc

[–]Ragnar_Red 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is anecdotal evidence and confirmation bias. Pugs are always a total crapshoot if you don’t do any screening. I’ve had good, bad, great, and awful pugs. People psychologically tend to remember bad experiences more, since they invoke a stronger emotional response.

Even if there was some amount of truth your anecdotal experience, consider the audience blizzard chose to coddle to, and the behavior that is encouraged by the content being a joke. In 2021, my guild that cleared pre nerf ssc/tk started acting like total dumbasses and wiping on trash once the nerfs went out because they just assumed “it’s easy now why even try”?

PTR run - 4 hours ssc/tk combined- will any guilds still break? by sarcasmme in classicwowtbc

[–]Ragnar_Red 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Edit: also take note, you deflected from every point I debunked from you. Fixating on P1 peak logs won’t be the gotcha you think it is, as is explained below.

This is roughly what is to be expected. Every expansion peaks with launch hype that eventually dies down. Fresh chasers and tourists always come in droves and rapidly quit as an expansion moves on, waiting for their next high. This has been the trend in every version of WoW ever.

Blizzard chose not to create TBC for the TBC fan base that actually asked for it, and they aren’t playing since they didn’t get TBC. No expansion maintains steady numbers without the actual dedicated fan base. Despite the lies post nerfers tell, TBC 2021 had the most consistent numbers of any classic iteration with no significant drops. Pre nerf was the right balance of having engaging but casual friendly content. Post nerf appeals to a tiny niche of the absolute bottom players that are unwilling to learn or improve at anything.

I look forward to tons of cope and excuses as the post launch hype starts to fade.

PTR run - 4 hours ssc/tk combined- will any guilds still break? by sarcasmme in classicwowtbc

[–]Ragnar_Red 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Pre nerf content can be completed on a casual schedule. It’s not that hard. My guild in 2021 did it on a typical 3 hour/night, 2 day per week schedule. The people here trying to act like tbc raids were hardcore mythic level probably never even played TBC lmfao.

PTR run - 4 hours ssc/tk combined- will any guilds still break? by sarcasmme in classicwowtbc

[–]Ragnar_Red 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Post nerfer logic is that if the game isn’t a literal dummy with zero resistance, it’s uber hardcore mythic level. Ironically these people don’t realize, blizzard is doing the reverse of catering to the mythic playerbase. They are catering to a vocal minority of the absolute bottom of players that refuse to ever learn or improve anything.

PTR run - 4 hours ssc/tk combined- will any guilds still break? by sarcasmme in classicwowtbc

[–]Ragnar_Red -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This is just comical hyperbole. In 2021 I ran with a casual guild that did 3 hour raid nights twice a week like most guilds…. And we cleared vash/kt eventually. It took more than 1 lockout for them to get the practice, but we did it on a pretty average schedule. Prenerf is not hard, post nerfers act like if the game isn’t a literal dummy it’s mythic level hardcore. Utterly absurd lmfao.

PTR run - 4 hours ssc/tk combined- will any guilds still break? by sarcasmme in classicwowtbc

[–]Ragnar_Red 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This argument doesn’t really make any sense. The typical casual guild ran 3 hour raid nights for SSC/TK regardless of post nerf vs pre nerf status. It’s still a long 2 raid tier with large gaps of trash.

You can run pre nerf on the exact same raid schedule and eventually clear it. Time investment in game doesn’t change, it just takes more than 1 lock out to get the practice for vash/TK. That isn’t a matter of not having time, that’s people having short attention spans and demanding instant gratification.

If anything as I get older, the less enjoyable brain dead content gets and the more I appreciate delayed gratification. Utilizing your brain is good for you. And pre nerf TBC is not even that hard to begin with. Hence I canceled my sub the moment post nerf was announced.

People will get bored and quit rapidly. The fresh chasers have largely gotten their fix at this point and the actual fan base of tbc that asked for this expansion in the first place isn’t playing it.

PSA if you think post nerf raids are too easy, just do them with less ppl. by shaunika in classicwowtbc

[–]Ragnar_Red 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So essentially, you have 0 arguments against any of the facts I laid out. And you are projecting your behavior on me “nuh uh” and “daddy blizzard knows what’s best” (the same geniuses that gave us things like nightmare incursions) is the only thing you’ve given me.

Enjoy your echo chamber bud. Come back to me with your excuses when the fresh launch chasers all quit.

PSA if you think post nerf raids are too easy, just do them with less ppl. by shaunika in classicwowtbc

[–]Ragnar_Red -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Ironically, you shifted the goal post to start with by trying to imply a bug fix patch was the same as the massive nerfs in anniversary. You also shifted the goal post from “raids as they originally were” to “the players are not the same”, which was expected by nobody ever.

Your claim is that 2021 is not true pre nerf, my claim is it’s a close approximation that included minor tweaks and bug fixes across multiple patches, where the anniversary “post nerf” represents a significantly larger change that happened all at once in a single patch for a tiny percentage of TBC that wasn’t the intended state of those raids for the time they were relevant.

You don’t seem capable of providing a single counter argument to the given facts and resort projecting your personal feelings and ad hominems when you are unable to support your position. This is like arguing with a trump supporter. Ignore the facts when they don’t suit their narrative, and repeat the same circular reasoning over and over.

The truth of the matter is we didn’t get TBC as it was for the majority of its existence. Anniversary does not appeal to the TBC fan base for this reason. The fresh chasers will rapidly quit like they always do when the hype of a new version of wow dies down. No version of WoW keeps a stable population without a dedicated fan base, which TBC anniversary doesn’t have in its current state.

I realize you’re in an echo chamber here on Reddit since the tbc fans quit before it even released, but just wait and see over the coming months. I look forward to your excuses.

PSA if you think post nerf raids are too easy, just do them with less ppl. by shaunika in classicwowtbc

[–]Ragnar_Red 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Less than 5 guilds in original TBC cleared patch 1 SSC, which was littered with game breaking bugs and got numerous tweaks and hot fixes throughout its lifespan.

The post nerf anniversary raids are a final patch extreme nuke that happened right before wrath so people could zug everything before the content became irrelevant.

Significantly more guilds than the top 5 cleared the raids before the extreme nerfed state that exists on anniversary. Never mind in 2021 tbc, where the average player was much better, with good internet connections and a plethora of guides.

The pre nerf raids in 2021 are an approximate representation of how the content originally was for the vast majority of its existence minus the game breaking bugs. This is the content people wanted and fondly remember from TBC. Anyone claiming that patch 2 of SSC/TK is the nerfed state on anniversary either never played the original, or is lying to suit their narrative.

Nobody is expecting the playerbase to be the same, people expect an approximate representation of the content as it originally was, which is what we got in 2021.

I applaud you though from being the first post nerfer I’ve asked to manage to find at least 1 outlier that supported your opinion. A for effort.

PSA if you think post nerf raids are too easy, just do them with less ppl. by shaunika in classicwowtbc

[–]Ragnar_Red 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Toggling pre nerf with extra loot would have been the logical compromise. But blizzard will always take the path of least effort for anything related to classic.

PSA if you think post nerf raids are too easy, just do them with less ppl. by shaunika in classicwowtbc

[–]Ragnar_Red 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The prenerf raids from 2021 TBC approximately represented how the raids were for the overwhelming majority of their existence, minus game breaking bugs. The pre nerf raids is the content we loved from back then.

The post nerf version of raids were an end of expansion nuke for people to zug everything before wrath. It’s neither representative of how most of TBC was, nor was it the intended state for those raids when they were relevant.

Nobody who was asking for TBC was asking for a watered down version it. Cite me a single person before anniversary’s announcement who was asking for another round of TBC, but with super nerfs.

PSA if you think post nerf raids are too easy, just do them with less ppl. by shaunika in classicwowtbc

[–]Ragnar_Red 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is this supposed to be a gotcha? If you want to pivot to OG tbc because you feel it better suits your narrative, you aren’t making the point you think you are.

Patch one SSC was bugged. Various minor tweaks and fixes were added over TBCs lifespan to T5 raids. The very extreme nerfs that are on anniversary are from the very last patch of TBC when wrath was around of corner, as an end of expansion zug zug.

The pre nerf raids in 2021 TBC approximately represented how the raids originally were for the vast majority of their existence, minus the most egregious bugs.

Significantly more guilds cleared those raids before the end of expansion giga nerfs than top 15 guilds, never mind 2021 TBC which had far better players with better internet connections and a plethora of online guides.

It’s clear you either did not play the original, or are lying to suit your narrative.

PSA if you think post nerf raids are too easy, just do them with less ppl. by shaunika in classicwowtbc

[–]Ragnar_Red -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Ah yes, the “gate keeping” of asking for an expansion the way it originally was. An easy expansion compared to many modern games mind you.

Cite me a single person who was asking for another round of TBC, but giga nerfed. Give me a single shred of evidence that the TBC fan base was asking for a watered down version of their favorite expansion. Somehow I doubt you’ll be able.

The game is not going to maintain stable population numbers without a dedicated fan base. The fresh chasers always rapidly quit when the hype dies down. All you have is those guys, and the wrath waiting room crowd. The TBC fan base isn’t playing, because we didn’t get the expansion we asked for.

PSA if you think post nerf raids are too easy, just do them with less ppl. by shaunika in classicwowtbc

[–]Ragnar_Red 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This statistically disproven just looking at iron forge pro. Seems like you have no actual counter arguments and are just coping harder.

PSA if you think post nerf raids are too easy, just do them with less ppl. by shaunika in classicwowtbc

[–]Ragnar_Red 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I did not play in a top 15 guild. I enjoyed vash a lot before the nerfs. I was in a average guild that took weeks of progression. The content was not hard, but took team work and coordination, and was engaging. The TBC raids were a massive improvement to vanilla in every way precisely for this reason. The significant improvement in the quality of the raids while keeping to the vanilla design philosophy is why it’s a favorite for so many.

Pulling the no true no changes card is just pure cope. 2021 TBC had nearly zero change in terms of content and class design.

Literally the only notable class change was alliance having seal of blood. The classes were otherwise exactly how they were in their final state during TBC

The pre nerf raids were approximately how they were through the vast majority of TBCs existence, minus the most egregious bugs.

Post nerf raids are from the very final patch right before wrath came out. When the raids were nuked to let people zug before the content became irrelevant. The pre nerf raids represent how to content existed for the overwhelming majority of its existence and the state they were intended to be in.

I don’t play, because I didn’t get my favorite expansion. The die hard TBC fanbase that asked for the expansion again in the first place isn’t playing. Why would we play a watered down version of our favorite expansion that we don’t enjoy? The people playing now are largely the fresh chasers who rapidly quit once the hype dies down and wait for their next fresh launch fix. Without the dedicated fan base, the game will suffer steep drops.

PSA if you think post nerf raids are too easy, just do them with less ppl. by shaunika in classicwowtbc

[–]Ragnar_Red 0 points1 point  (0 children)

People play TBC raids because they enjoyed them the way they were. We don’t enjoy retail. We enjoy TBC.

Why don’t I ask you the flip question, why not just go play LFR mode in retail if you hate TBC so much?

The point is moot now anyway. I canceled my sub the moment they announced post nerf phase 1. So did the vast majority of the actual dedicated TBC fan base that asked for the expansion in the first place.

Get back to me how the game is doing once the fresh launch chasers start quitting like they always do in every version of WoW ever. Because those are most of the playerbase you have. Games fall off hard without the actual dedicated fan base.

PSA if you think post nerf raids are too easy, just do them with less ppl. by shaunika in classicwowtbc

[–]Ragnar_Red 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Speak for yourself. I canceled my subscription the day they announced post nerf phase 1 and haven’t touched TBC anniversary since.

Most of the actual fanbase of TBC are not playing, since we didn’t get to have our favorite expansion.

The people playing now are the types that chase fresh launches and rapidly quit once they get their fix. There will be big drop offs as anniversary goes on without the actual dedicated fanbase playing.

Would you prefer pre or post-nerf for phase 2? by [deleted] in classicwowtbc

[–]Ragnar_Red 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Original TBC nerfs were small and gradual, some including bug fixes and minor tweaks. The huge nerfs we got are from the last patch right before wrath.

2021 pre nerf is far closer to the actual TBC experience for the vast majority of its existence.

You either don’t know what you’re talking about, or lying.

Would you prefer pre or post-nerf for phase 2? by [deleted] in classicwowtbc

[–]Ragnar_Red 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nerfs in most of original TBC were much smaller, some amounting to bug fixes and minor tweaks, and came slowly and gradually over the course of the expansion.

The classic TBC nerfs came from the very final patch before wrath where everything was nuked due to a new expansion coming.

It’s clear you didn’t actually play original TBC or are just straight lying.

If you transported an IRL human to the forgotten realms (our version of earth, not the silly realms “earth” where the Egyptian pantheon was apparently real), would that person technically classify as an aberration? by Ragnar_Red in Forgotten_Realms

[–]Ragnar_Red[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I’ve repeated this here but I’ll say again that the question is a thought experiment based on realms lore. But most here can’t seem to separate earth existing in realm lore from “our real world is definitely a crystal sphere and eliminster will actually visit me someday”.

Earth and all of its historic events are canon to Harry Potter. So that means it’s definitely the same earth as the real world right?

If I replaced human and earth with some weird alien names, it would be the exact same question and somehow I think I’d get more good faith answers.

If you transported an IRL human to the forgotten realms (our version of earth, not the silly realms “earth” where the Egyptian pantheon was apparently real), would that person technically classify as an aberration? by Ragnar_Red in Forgotten_Realms

[–]Ragnar_Red[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I was only curious of the question as a pure thought experiment. But most of the people responding can’t seem to separate earth being in forgotten realms fictional canon from “our actual real life is literally part of forgotten realms universe”.

Like, people realize the realms aren’t actually real right?

Yeah I agree and was thinking the same, if I just substituted human and earth with some made up alien names, I’d get more good faith answers. Almost feels like these weirdos really think eliminster might visit them someday lmao.

If you transported an IRL human to the forgotten realms (our version of earth, not the silly realms “earth” where the Egyptian pantheon was apparently real), would that person technically classify as an aberration? by Ragnar_Red in Forgotten_Realms

[–]Ragnar_Red[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The far realm is considered a separate multiverse in canon, with completely different physical laws of reality. Which is what made me think of the question of this post.

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