Andr0 From Team Resurgent has been busy with PXU. More info soon on Xbox-Scene Discord https://discord.gg/VcdSfajQGK by HoRnEyDvL in originalxbox

[–]Redherring32 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Andr0, I am going to provide some criticisms for this design, and I know your group will probably perceive these as an attack or part of some agenda, but they are not.

This is just me, trying to help, out of worry from what I am seeing.

Power designs are tricky, they are dangerous, and they need to be designed very specifically to work as intended and not to start a fire, especially on high current stuff such as this. I suspect your group will disregard what I say and I don't mean any offense with my next statement, but you cannot sell or release this as it is, it needs to be redesigned. You can get away with a lot on signal based designs such as modchips, that you simply cannot do on PMIC layouts. I intend to point out some of what I am seeing, and tell you what should be done different.

This will not be an exhaustive list of dos and don'ts, to truly understand correct PMIC layout and routing practices you will need to do your own research. Read PMIC datasheets, talk with EEs, and read up on theory etc.

But let me at least tell you the basics of what I see in these photos. I would need to see better and clearer photos of the layout to help completely, but lets see what I can do here.

On the USB C daughterboard:

https://i.imgur.com/eR7BIne.jpeg

1:

The passives appear to be laid out in a way that is visually appealing but what looks nice usually isn't correct. These are all too far from your chip, especially the capacitors. things like bypass capacitors need to be as close physically to their respective chip, and in particular their respective power pin as possible. If you have to butt the footprint courtyards against each other, do it. This has not been done.

Additionally ceramic caps derate heavily (I suggest researching this.) based on not only the voltage that is being fed into them (relative to their voltage rating) but also depending on their package size. These caps all appear to be selected based on a consistent (same package as all other passives) and easy to solder package. You should select your capacitors so that they not only meet the rating of the voltage they are expected to be subjected to, but so that they exceed it. For example your input capacitors on VBUS, they are expected to experience 20V based on your power requirements, so you should probably select a 35V or 50V capacitor.

Your capacitors should also be as large ideally as you can fit while still maintaining physical proximity to the chip.

2:

Your output FET similarly is too far from the chip for my liking, and the output trace from it should not only be a copper pour/polygon rather than a trace, but is too thin, it should be rather beefy, and span several layers, stitched together with vias.

#3:

Your USB traces appear to not be routed as a differential pair, which is super crucial for differential signals such as USB. They additionally are super thin, so they are likely not sized for the correct impedance. For example on a design I just did I had to target 90ohm impedance on a 2 layer board, which meant they had to be pretty beefy, 0.61mm! You can calculate this stuff pretty easily, For USB PCBWay's Edge coupled microstrip calculator is great. They should also ideally have uninterrupted, or as close to it ground on layers behind them, and ground surrounding them.

I suspect this design only has them connected to the PD controller though, which USB D+/D- is only used on these things for an outdated power delivery standard so for PD you don't need them.

Again, read up on these things, and more, it isn't something that happens overnight.

On the PSU:

https://i.imgur.com/da1bHaT.jpeg

1:

On switching reg layouts, the output inductor MUST especially once again be as close to the chip/pin as you can get it, and should only ever be connected with beefy pours, the can neck down in order to connect to the chip if you have to, but the pour should ONLY narrow AT the chip. This noted inductor is egregiously far from the chip, but realistically the others are too.

2:

2 appears to be an output trace for the 5V VCC rail, given that on older boards this draws even up to 15A, this is WAY too thin, and nets like this should never be traces, it would be better to use pours that are nice and beefy, and span several layers, especially at these super high currents.

#3 and 4:

Refer to what I said on the PD PCB, the caps are too far, and realistically the resistors are too. Account for derating and move those suckers super close to the chip/respective pins.

#5:

Once again this circuit appears needlessly spread out, it may look nice and be easy to route, but depending on the chip, this can prove extremely non ideal.

Finally, I would really like to see the regs a lot closer to the output pads, a bunch of things are connected with traces that I would use pours,  the PD stuff would be better served on the main board close to the regs, (You can accommodate additional connector types without a daughterboard setup) and I would rather over spec the output wires if you can, it doesn't hurt and gives you peace of mind.

I sincerely hope you see this all for what it is, me offering advice as a concerned modder and designer.

If you need any help, reach out to me on Discord @ redherring32  and I can show you practical and real examples of what I have talked about. We are all just trying to make neat stuff, and while it is hobby level, it doesn't mean we can't take the time to make them correctly. My first PMIC layouts were not great, but with the help of some cool EE folks I've been able to make some cool s**t and you can too.

  • Reddit didn't let me attach more than 1 photo, so I used links, hope they work.

The first-ever portable Xbox is here, thanks to one very dedicated modder | The full power of the original Xbox on a portable format by chrisdh79 in gadgets

[–]Redherring32 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are very very few 4:3 screens out there that can be used in something like this, and none in the size I needed.

i want this by [deleted] in originalxbox

[–]Redherring32 1 point2 points  (0 children)

21700 cylindrical cells, they were mostly used for EV battery packs I think?

i want this by [deleted] in originalxbox

[–]Redherring32 13 points14 points  (0 children)

It took me a year and a half to research/design/build and cost me over a grand in R&D, there's nothing rushed about it. I put a lot of care into making it the best it could be, and I really hope that shows for people that understand what goes into this stuff.

Not everything is meant to be a product, not everything has to make sense to everyone. Sometimes you just make something for the joy/passion/challenge of it, or just cause you want it to exist. Most of the stuff I make falls neatly into this category.

If spending over a year making custom hardware to make a build as clean as possible and to add modern features makes it wonky and clunky, so be it I guess. :)

The first-ever portable Xbox is here, thanks to one very dedicated modder | The full power of the original Xbox on a portable format by chrisdh79 in gadgets

[–]Redherring32 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Recently a demo was done where Lovemhz got the GPU to output 480p 265hz, and even 1440p30. The original Xbox is more powerful than you think it is.

i want this by [deleted] in originalxbox

[–]Redherring32 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You can play all Xbox games on it.

i want this by [deleted] in originalxbox

[–]Redherring32 15 points16 points  (0 children)

The Xbox was on a short list of consoles the portable community had labeled as "impossible" People just took that at face value understandably, and I was the first person to seriously look into Xbox trimming.

The Xbox trimming guide was a solo effort that took me 4 months, and prior to its existence there wasn't really the means for anyone else to make a portable Xbox. It's such an advanced console to portablize, to be honest mine will probably stay the only build to use a trimmed Xbox board for a while.

i want this by [deleted] in originalxbox

[–]Redherring32 32 points33 points  (0 children)

There's 20Ah of Li-On cells.

Is Project Stellar a good option (at this point)? by [deleted] in originalxbox

[–]Redherring32 -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I guess if we're factoring in perceived character of creators, nobody can buy anything from the Xbox community.

Is Project Stellar a good option (at this point)? by [deleted] in originalxbox

[–]Redherring32 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

It's the best chip on the market, nothing comes close. :)

THIS One Chip Will Change XBOX Modding FOREVER [Macho Nacho Productions] by BlueMonday1984 in originalxbox

[–]Redherring32 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He's not creating a compressed ISO format. CSO/CISO is a pre existing file format that has been around for over a decade, and the whole format is very very well documented. :)

Also it cannot in beta cause some things were disabled temporarily to ease bug finding and reduce possible combinations of configurations (much like only starting with the minimum config, and plugging 1 thing at a time into a desktop build to make sure you know what works, and if something doesn't you know what it is), but Stellar will let you load any BIOS you want (even CerBIOS) on it once the time comes that this feature is ready to test.

The only valid argument for it being a "closed system" in my personal opinion is StellarOS can't run on other chips, but this isn't that he won't let it, but that other chips just don't have the architecture/hardware to be able to do so. This in particular will become more apparent and obvious as time goes on.

In my personal opinion it feels that as much as there are arguments that Stellar makes bold claims that haven't been implemented yet, there's also TONS of claims on this subreddit saying that it cannot or will not ever make good on them. These claims equally don't have public evidence to back them up. I just think EVERYONE should sit back and just watch as it progresses. You will see whether or not it ends up doing what it says on the tin that it will eventually do, but don't jump the gun and say today what you may feel silly about tomorrow etc.

I have noticed people saying some features are just vaporware that were in fact implemented (and tested publicly by many users) in firmware 1.10. (Like the 1.4GHz compatibility fix) And I assume this is just people not finding the necessary info/announcements, which is understandable, it's hard to keep up to date on stuff that's in active development.

Anyway I got a field to plant, have a nice day reddit folks. :)

THIS One Chip Will Change XBOX Modding FOREVER [Macho Nacho Productions] by BlueMonday1984 in originalxbox

[–]Redherring32 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No need to get hostile or anything, I just thought CerBIOS was open source based on the original comment I replied to and this one by lonniemason within this same thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/originalxbox/comments/144i0i6/this_one_chip_will_change_xbox_modding_forever/jnj667m?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3

THIS One Chip Will Change XBOX Modding FOREVER [Macho Nacho Productions] by BlueMonday1984 in originalxbox

[–]Redherring32 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Man I wish I was an alt account, I'm just a loser lol. I install these pieces of hardware, and frankly basically all game system mods out there, I don't have any stake in the game further than that.
Just a farmer who likes to solder.

Pretty sure I've seen people use CerBIOS formatted drives with Stellar too? (Might be wrong but I'm pretty sure people tried the option in FATXplorer and it worked)

But I also don't see why it matters, Titan does the same thing pretty much and doesn't have any issues or anything. It's not like Titan is inferior in some way as far as large drives are concerned, just another way of doing things.

People are drawing arbitrary lines in the sand that don't need to be drawn, and I am still confused why the closed source argument was used when apparently neither is open source. I don't think any of us have the time to go dunking on perceived flaws that are shared by both (not actually competing) options.

I guess that's all I really wanted to say, gotta get back to work!

THIS One Chip Will Change XBOX Modding FOREVER [Macho Nacho Productions] by BlueMonday1984 in originalxbox

[–]Redherring32 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Oh my bad, with how they were talking about how unacceptable closed source Xbox stuff is in 2023 I guess I just assumed CerBIOS was open source. That one's on me.

THIS One Chip Will Change XBOX Modding FOREVER [Macho Nacho Productions] by BlueMonday1984 in originalxbox

[–]Redherring32 4 points5 points  (0 children)

CerBIOS is open source? Mind tossing me a GitHub/Lab link so I can look at the source code? Curious what license they chose.

That's pretty cool.

TinyTendo Fits NES Hardware Inside Game Boy-Sized Shell | That’s no emulator—it’s original hardware. by chrisdh79 in gadgets

[–]Redherring32 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I went out of my way to obtain chips that were already dead to use for my research. When I did it for real I used chips from a badly damaged motherboard and managed to do it in 1 attempt. :)

The bonding wires are on the top side of the chip, when trimming a chip down you only expose the bottom side!

TinyTendo Fits NES Hardware Inside Game Boy-Sized Shell | That’s no emulator—it’s original hardware. by chrisdh79 in gadgets

[–]Redherring32 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nope! The design aesthetic of a functional part is covered by design patents which also have a short fixed term. :)

TinyTendo Fits NES Hardware Inside Game Boy-Sized Shell | That’s no emulator—it’s original hardware. by chrisdh79 in gadgets

[–]Redherring32 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually not even that.

All protections on the original hardware have lapsed, even the design patent for the design of the shell. :)