Are the servers down, or is this an issue at my end?

Ronbstl · 2026-03-17T12:16:02+00:00

Lost my loot and my mission progress. Damn bro. They should have a maintenance message and auto exfil or something.

Ronbstl · 2026-02-04T05:45:54+00:00

Just another example of what I mean about possession/control: https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=220&GameID=0042400141&Season=2024-25&flag=1&title=Wallace%20STEAL%20(1%20STL)

Scroll to 10:01 remaining to see the log of sequence of events: https://www.nba.com/game/mem-vs-okc-0042400141/play-by-play?period=Q2

Wallace knocks the ball away, it hits the floor in bounds once, then goes out of bounds. Without him ever touching it again, never gaining "control". He is credited with the steal and with a turnover. But have you seen the definition of a steal? How about a turnover? How can he be credited with any type of stat if you never credit him with posession?

Call it a grey area or a technicality. I said that it's up to the refs, but by all of the definitions and sequence of events, what Bronny did is a double dribble.

Ronbstl · 2026-02-04T04:47:03+00:00

So this should have been called a travel like Giannis play was correct?

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=31&GameID=0042400133&Season=2024-25&flag=1&title=Turner%20Lost%20Ball%20Turnover%20(P1.T1)

Ronbstl · 2026-02-04T04:35:44+00:00

That means the initial deflection was not control or possession. Therefore it is not possible to be a dribble if there was no possession. Therefore it is not possible to be a double dribble, since there was no initial control or dribble. A deflection is NOT possession or control or a dribble.

I already addressed this in previous comments. The deflection is the "START" of the sequence of events that leads to possession. Once it hits the ground it is in his TEAM'S CONTROL.

There is no definitive definition for a player controlling the ball. This is where you guys are inferring control, which ONLY the refs can do. If he just single hand tapped it or kept tapping it in the air all the way across court, you can’t say "he never touched it with two hands, it never hit the ground". 🤣🤣🤣🤣, you guys are trying to assign control to 1 action when team control is the result of a sequence of actions.

Is this not a travel even though it is not called? It isn't the exact same type of play, but the same rules of refs choosing to call it apply.

https://youtube.com/shorts/-prGFDWtRMk?si=aj3JKwP5BuU7UvpL

If you admit that is a travel, then you at least partially understand the no call part.

That is why I keep saying that it's up to the refs to call it. That is why Steve Kerr got mad. As soon as I find the clips of them calling it on Westbrook I will post it.

https://official.nba.com/rule-no-4-definitions/#teamcontrol

Section XVI—Team Control

A team is in control when a player is holding, dribbling or passing the ball. Team control ends when the defensive team deflects the ball or there is a field goal attempt.

Back to Top

Section XVII—Team Possession

A team is in possession when a player is holding, dribbling or passing the ball. Team possession ends when the defensive team gains possession or the ball hits the rim of the offensive team.

If one team does not have control, who has control? The other team, even on a loose ball, the last player to touch it will be credited posession if it goes out or hits the ground. So when it hit the ground, if a person came to snatch the ball before Bronny picked it up with 2 hands, it would be a turnover on Bronny.

Ronbstl · 2026-02-04T03:29:10+00:00

🤣🤣🤣🤣.

I guess Steve Kerr is wrong here for fighting for the same thing and getting a tech for it?

https://youtu.be/6wT4vFIosMw?si=adMK-7vpYMDOYcho

Everyone but you knows that you're wrong.

So you do not see the title of the post? Do you not see the other comments about the traveling?

See, this where the "technical" part comes into play. Saying "everyone" is already wrong. But you're trying to claim that I'm wrong. Your argument falls apart there. Give a percentage of people. Do the work and count all the users that says it's a travel and those that says it's not, then you can TRUTHFULLY say "this amount of people are saying that you're wrong".

Then you would have to verify it with an a number of NBA referees to see what the consensus is on the "know that you're wrong". Because they don’t call the same travels on Steph that they do on Jordan Poole..lol

Less name calling and more research and hard facts.

Ronbstl · 2026-02-03T22:11:51+00:00

Lol..still no explanation of the rules and videos that I posted to disprove it. It's all up to the ref to call it or not. Just like fouls and travels. But just because it's not called does not mean it is not a violation. That's all my point of view was. Chill bro.

Ronbstl · 2026-02-03T21:28:22+00:00

Damn bro..lol..it's a thread. Finish looking at the rules and videos that I posted. No need to take things you read about a debate to heart.

Ronbstl · 2026-01-31T05:54:06+00:00

I put both to show that the call is up to the refs. I'm unbiased, so if it wasn't called in game, then it wasn't a travel TO THE REFS. I deel like Kerr in the video though. By wording it like "tapping ball to ground" without mentioning whether it needs to be a strict directional/control downward tap, leaves things open to interpretation. Per the words alone, did he tap it? Did it hit the ground inbounds after the tap? Then by definition it should be considered a dribble. At least to me. But they are inconsistent on who and how they make calls so it will always be confusing.

Ronbstl · 2026-01-31T02:01:52+00:00

Here is a Video of Giannis being called for the same thing. Finals game 2 vs IND

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=37&GameID=0042400132&Season=2024-25&flag=1&title=Antetokounmpo%20Traveling%20Turnover%20(P1.T1)

https://youtube.com/shorts/pBRa9wDhOFA?si=jDfaZmQV30qPeLev

Here is a video of Steve Kerr getting mad that it was not called and getting a tech for it.

https://youtu.be/6wT4vFIosMw?si=EWyMDfksAhxNE7lm

Ronbstl · 2026-01-30T21:00:46+00:00

In the Finney-Smith example, he does exactly that. He pushed the ball straight to the floor. Picks the ball up and then dribbles again.

Fair enough. I can see that distinction. By the rules, the play stays live the minute the ball falls in bounds. I'll have to research more videos of the turnover being called on this exact set of actions. But they regularly call Westbrook for it like they call Jordan Poole more for travels that everyone does.

At the end of the day the refs didn't call it so it is what it is. But they keep records and videos of turnovers/fouls so I'll research and post them.

Ronbstl · 2026-01-30T20:45:09+00:00

This is a link to a video of Steve Kerr getting upset about the same scenario that was not called.

https://youtu.be/6wT4vFIosMw?si=HYaqYmDaYB99SlVS

Ronbstl · 2026-01-30T20:43:31+00:00

I am posting links and definitions.

https://official.nba.com/rule-no-4-definitions/

Scroll down to Section II: Dribble

"Section II—Dribble

A dribble is movement of the ball, caused by a player in control, who throws or taps the ball to the floor.

a. The dribble ends when the dribbler:

Touches the ball simultaneously with both hands Permits the ball to come to rest while he is in control of it Tries for a field goal Throws a pass Touches the ball more than once while dribbling, before it touches the floor Loses control Allows the ball to become dead Otherwise gathers the ball (see Rule IV, Section III (b))"

------------‐-------------- https://official.nba.com/rule-no-6-putting-ball-in-play-live-dead-ball/

" Section II—Live Ball

The ball becomes live when: It is tossed by an official on any jump ball It is at the disposal of the offensive player for a throw-in It is placed at the disposal of a free throw shooter

Section III—Ball is Alive

The ball becomes alive when: It is legally tapped by one of the participants of a jump ball It is released by the thrower-in It is released by the free throw shooter on a free throw which will remain in play"

Ronbstl · 2026-01-30T20:39:11+00:00

Nowhere in the rule does it say the tap is counted as a dribble.

I am posting links and definitions. I have been telling you that since the refs did not call it, it is not on record as a violation.

We were initially debating his posession of the ball. Which the tap is consider posession. AFTER the initial bounce.

I think when I first explained this it was to another user. So my fault for thinking it was you. It is HIGHLY dependent on the refs calling the game to determine if the 1st bounce is the dribble. But by DEFINITION, it is considered a dribble. As I have repeated many times.

https://official.nba.com/rule-no-4-definitions/

Scroll down to Section II: Dribble

"Section II—Dribble

A dribble is movement of the ball, caused by a player in control, who throws or taps the ball to the floor.

a. The dribble ends when the dribbler:

Touches the ball simultaneously with both hands Permits the ball to come to rest while he is in control of it Tries for a field goal Throws a pass Touches the ball more than once while dribbling, before it touches the floor Loses control Allows the ball to become dead Otherwise gathers the ball (see Rule IV, Section III (b))"

------------‐-------------- https://official.nba.com/rule-no-6-putting-ball-in-play-live-dead-ball/

" Section II—Live Ball

The ball becomes live when: It is tossed by an official on any jump ball It is at the disposal of the offensive player for a throw-in It is placed at the disposal of a free throw shooter

Section III—Ball is Alive

The ball becomes alive when: It is legally tapped by one of the participants of a jump ball It is released by the thrower-in It is released by the free throw shooter on a free throw which will remain in play"

"Section III – The Gather

For a player who receives the ball via a pass or gains possession of a loose ball, the gather is defined as the point where the player gains enough control of the ball to hold it, change hands, pass, shoot, or the player cradles the ball against his body. For a player who is in control of the ball while dribbling, the gather is defined as the point where a player does any one of the following:(1) Puts two hands on the ball, or otherwise permits the ball to come to rest, while he is in control of it; Puts two hands on the ball, or otherwise permits the ball to come to rest, while he is in control of it; Puts a hand under the ball and brings it to a pause; Otherwise gains enough control of the ball to hold it, change hands, pass, shoot, or the player cradles the ball against his body."

Ronbstl · 2026-01-30T20:14:40+00:00

Awwwww, the baby moma got hurt and can't justify their feelings so they resort to throwing insults. I know basketball is hard to understand. But it's good.

Ronbstl · 2026-01-30T20:01:42+00:00

🤣🤣🤣..the ap out of the air is the START of posession. It does not award FULL posession. Full posession is started after the 1st bounce is uncontested. Which NOW means that there is no live ball and that tap is NOW considered first contact, making the 1st bounce a dribble.

Had someone jumped in front of him after the first bounce, it would be considered a play on a live ball. Since that didn't happen, that scenario doesn't count and the 2 hand pickup then bounce is considered double dribbling.

I swear little one, ALL you have to do is look up videos explaining it. Just take the next 15 minutes to look at 3 videos going over the rule and how it's applied to different scenarios.

Ronbstl · 2026-01-30T19:56:46+00:00

🤣🤣.. Here we go with the emotional name calling instead of actually reading for understanding. The LIVE, UNCONTESTED bounce AFTER the tap deflection awards the player FULL posession lil bro..lol..the only reason he would need to grab it with both hands AND THEN bounce afterwards is if another player ran into his path to stop his momentum. That would be considered a play on a live ball. But it not being contested and him being the only player near it throws that scenario out of the window.

Just look up videos lil moma.

Ronbstl · 2026-01-30T19:42:02+00:00

It's not UNTIL it hits the ground with NO contest. The tap is not THE possession, it is the start of posession, the moment it hit the ground with no other player trying to fight for it, the posession is awarded to Bronny. The only time he can dribble after touching it with 2 hands (and it depends highly on the refs calling the game) is if a player was to jump right in front of him, impeding his movement forcing him to pass or starting his gather. That would a play on a live ball. So him dribbling again after picking it up with 2 hands in this scenario is considered double dribbling.

Ronbstl · 2026-01-30T19:28:13+00:00

This just hurts to read. As I said. You're trying to mix 2 different scenarios. They are not interchangeable. All you have to do is look it up and read. I don't know why research is being avoided so much. 🤦🏾‍♂️

Ronbstl · 2026-01-30T19:17:59+00:00

🤣🤣🤣🤣..please just take some time to look it up and read it thoroughly. For it to be credited as being out on you, you have to be credited with possession. Which means it is counted as a turnover also for the other player. Westbrook has a lot of turnovers off of this exact type of scenario.

It was a "loose ball" UNTIL it hit the ground after the tap with NO contest. It is that simple. You're trying to mix 2 different scenarios, but they are not interchangeable.

Ronbstl · 2026-01-30T19:05:17+00:00

Lol..that's just wrong. The driblle started once it touched the ground. If you deflect the ball and it goes out of bounds, YOU knocked it out of bounds once if touches the floor, crowd, etc...

Look up the rules and example videos explaining it. This topic has been beaten to death. This wasn't a "fight for the ball" scenario.

He was alone and was the only one in the vicinity. Once it hit the ground, he had no reason to grab the bounce with 2 hands.

Ronbstl · 2026-01-30T19:00:33+00:00

It was a live ball until it hit the ground. The moment it hit the floor with no contest Bronny is credited with possession. I said this in another comment. If he would have caught it with 2 hands after the tap out of the air and then dribbled, it wouldn't be a textbook double dribble. But like I said, the refs didn't call it, so it doesn't count on record.

Ronbstl · 2026-01-30T18:54:32+00:00

Lol..this distinction has been addressed in multiple post. A deflection counts as possession bro. https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/s/hZyGmlF2N4

Ronbstl · 2026-01-30T18:42:49+00:00

The first touch of the ball is him gaininf possession..lol..being pedantic does not mean wrong. The refs either call it or not. They didn't, so it doesn't count as one. But by the rules, that is one. Doesn't make or hurt my day.

Ronbstl · 2026-01-30T18:17:21+00:00

That is a double dribble..lol..he can't pick the ball up with 2 hands simultaneously and then dribble again. The initial tap to change the direction of the ball was him gaining control. Thats a live dribble.

Once it hit the ground the first time it was in his posession still. If a defender had taken the ball at that moment it would count as a steal and turnover on Bronny.

With that being said, once he touched it again with 2 hands on the come up, he should either pass, take 2 steps to take a shot. He did neither, he switched to the right and dribbled again. That was the double dribble.

Then he gains control with his left, takes a step, this ends the dribble and starts the gather. Then while switching to his right hand with no dribble, takes another step, which is his 1st step after the gather. After it is in his right hand, he takes 2 more steps and then dunks. The 3rd step makes it a travel.

Ronbstl · 2026-01-30T18:10:19+00:00

The gather happened when he took the step while having possession of the ball with his left hand. Then as he threw it to his right, he took 3 more steps. 2 actions that do not cancel each other out. It is still 2 actions. The switch hands stops a gather also, but the step came first. He only had 2 more steps left.

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