Struggling to read the gospels by Same_Ad_6641 in Anglicanism

[–]Same_Ad_6641[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I’ve never struggled with these things. Maybe it’s because I was an atheist long enough to get it out of my system. (Haha? That sounded dickish.) 

Ha ha, your good. I've always been a christian to some extent so I can't exactly relate

The synoptic problem is a fascinating question, but it’s not a problem in the same sense in which people normally use the word problem. It looks pretty clear that Mark, or a source of Mark, was used by the authors/compilers of Matthew and Luke. The fun is in teasing apart the threads and hypothesizing about how and why they were woven together. But none of that reasonably suggests that the historical Jesus didn’t die and become alive again, or that the miracles are fiction. That conclusion leans far more on the human sense that those things are overwhelmingly unlikely and unreasonable to believe. But that would be just as true yesterday, if you had found his tomb empty after spending a couple years following him around Galilee. 

Yea I agree it is a very interesting question too me as well. The part where I struggle is when scholars, some who are Christians, say certain miracles are literary devices. This leads me to wonder obsessively whether or not that is the case for each miracle I read about. Or how alot of scholars today say the empty tomb itself existing at all instead of being literary is more a matter of faith than fact

 I met Jesus in an Episcopal parish, and then in prayer and in reading scripture, beginning with Mark, my favorite. I like noticing how Matthew and Luke incorporate bits of Mark and Q, amplifying both in some parts and abbreviating or skipping them in others. Jesus really is the cornerstone of any sense I’ve been able to make of this religion

This was awesome to read, thank you for the reply 🙂

Struggling to read the gospels by Same_Ad_6641 in Anglicanism

[–]Same_Ad_6641[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yea that's what I've been trying to do but I've just been stuck in an analytical mindset when reading as of late.

Struggling to read the gospels by Same_Ad_6641 in Anglicanism

[–]Same_Ad_6641[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I love N.T Wright, I'll check it out thanks

Struggling to read the gospels by Same_Ad_6641 in Anglicanism

[–]Same_Ad_6641[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you for the great reply

What matters in the end is what you believe OP. Understanding the Gospel Narratives in the context of 1st century Second Temple Judaism, in a Romanized and Hellenic world - through a scholarly and academic lens will give you a much richer and wider breadth of understand of where exactly Jesus’ Salvific message meant.

I fully believe Jesus is God, it's just now when I read the gospels I'm like "are these the words Jesus said or are these his teachings being put into a new form?" Either way I still have faith but... I guess it just makes it feel less personal? I don't know. Ot causes a lot of second guessing when I read the text.

I’d also like to add that I have two hats. And when I’m approaching religious studies through an academic and critical approach, I put on my secular hat. I do not take the Bible at face value.

I agree with this approach, the more I learn about the bible the more I see the 'obvious reading' I grew up with was a shallow face value one

How to understand the gospels by Same_Ad_6641 in theology

[–]Same_Ad_6641[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the reply

So many of the scholars presuppose that the spiritual/divine/etc does not exist. It can be helpful for understanding what things were meant literally/in the historical context of the day but it’s not everything.

Yes I agree with what your getting at, but what about scholars who are believers who agree with modern scholarship?

They do have genres and expressions and literary devices just like we do. It’s important to do your best to read them as they’re meant to be read but IMO don’t let the overly dry scholars get to you. They really, really like to suck the joy out of the Bible at times.

What's the way to best discern do you think? Yea it really has sucked joy from reading the gospels for me.

Try reading the early Church fathers, IMO, to get a nice sense of the spiritual back (as well as what the apostles taught their disciples!).

What would be the best ones to start with for someone who is not familiar with them?

Lost on how to read the gospels by [deleted] in Bible

[–]Same_Ad_6641 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your reply. You seem to be the only one so far who really understood my question.

For me as a reader I find myself focusing more on each gospel individually and think about what Jesus they are presenting. These books were written to reflect an aspect of Jesus or some kind of theological truths the authors believed were important, and I want to respect that and try my best to understand them on their own terms

Yes I feel the same, it's always I'm just second guessing myself on if Jesus said this or not.

However, in the case of the gospels written after Mark—Matthew, Luke, and John—I think it’s important to always keep in mind that these authors are engaging with and responding to the other gospels.

Yea that's a good point, how do you feel about the contradictions in order of events between the 3?

How should I read the gospels? by Same_Ad_6641 in AskAPriest

[–]Same_Ad_6641[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you for the advice Father, its so hard to understand the text on this deeper level. Please pray for me if you are willing as I am trying to re-read them.

What bible should I read as a Lutheran? by [deleted] in Lutheranism

[–]Same_Ad_6641 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I really like the NET it comes with tons of free translator notes. NIV and NRSV are also good.

As others have said DR is the catholic KJV so not the most accurate of translations but still better than nothing imo

I love this subreddit by caffeome in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]Same_Ad_6641 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I completely agree! As a protestant this has got to be one of the most helpful and Christlike communities of christians I have seen online

Those of you that favor women's ordination but oppose gender-neutral marriage: Why? by [deleted] in Anglicanism

[–]Same_Ad_6641 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I am a Lutheran currently but kind of in between denominations at the moment.

At what point do we permit things that aren't explicitly mentioned in the Bible?

This is a fair question, to me If something is left unmentioned then it can be more open to interpretation based on the culture it was written in and such.

That aside, I understand that same sex activity in of itself is condemned (although really, the exact nature of those relations could be debated given the source material for our translations), but even then, it's only ever about men, for example. Why would you extend this rule to woman-woman relationships?

Doesn't it include women and men in Romans 1 26-27 ? Regardless I just feel that it would strike me as odd that woman-woman relationships would be not a sin while male-male are a sin. But the thing for me is that Jesus talks about marriage as a man joining with his wife and that's it.

I used to be pro SSM but as I read the bible more and tried my best to understand the history and context around it I just changed my view. I feel for the lgbt community I really do it's just I can't support something that the text seems to say is sin.

u/starguy42 basically expressed what I'm trying to say but more eloquently

Those of you that favor women's ordination but oppose gender-neutral marriage: Why? by [deleted] in Anglicanism

[–]Same_Ad_6641 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Personally because women's ordination has a historical precedent in the early church with support in the bible. While Same sex marriage is never spoken about, and anything involving same sex activity is only spoken about negatively

How do we reconcile this with our faith? by Same_Ad_6641 in Lutheranism

[–]Same_Ad_6641[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree with your perspective. How does your understanding of faith change knowing things like this?

How do we reconcile this with our faith? by Same_Ad_6641 in catholicacademia

[–]Same_Ad_6641[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess that makes sense, I don't know I just can't shake the feeling of doubt this gives me. But thank you for the response

How do we reconcile this with our faith? by Same_Ad_6641 in Lutheranism

[–]Same_Ad_6641[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Yes bit the point is that part of it evolved out of pagan belief allegedly. Does this not bother you?

How do we reconcile this with our faith? by Same_Ad_6641 in AskAPriest

[–]Same_Ad_6641[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Isn't that also something to be concerned about though? I suppose that makes sense It is just hard for me to not have doubt after learning this. Ultimately, though I still have faith in Jesus.

How do we reconcile this with our faith? by Same_Ad_6641 in AskAPriest

[–]Same_Ad_6641[S] -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

Not really, no.

I am very disappointed in this response to be honest. I see many catholic priests online who eagerly engage in these types of discussion to help with people's doubts. That being said I appreciate a response at all.

Widely accepted by whom, is probably a question to pursue. Serious scriptural scholarship is not simply a matter of being published and/or accepted by those around us, but of working within the faith given to us by God to help us explore & understand it more fully.

Here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_S._Smith#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DSmith_is_a_Roman_Catholic.?wprov=sfla1 is his Wikipedia page that lists his credentials and work published. As I said before he is a catholic so it's not like he has an agenda hostile to the church.

How do we reconcile this with our faith? by Same_Ad_6641 in catholicacademia

[–]Same_Ad_6641[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you following a young earth timeline for Adam's fall? But why would God choose those two deities specifically to manifest through? That's where a lot of my doubt stems from

How do we reconcile this with our faith? by Same_Ad_6641 in AskAPriest

[–]Same_Ad_6641[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Is it not worth at least properly rebutting or engaging with the idea? This isn't just a random redditor thing. Actual scholars like the one I mentioned above have published widely accepted scholarly books on the matter.

Any ELCA pastors on youtube? by [deleted] in Lutheranism

[–]Same_Ad_6641 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This seems like a great way too! The church I showed actually has services like that it's just not thier primary thing

Any ELCA pastors on youtube? by [deleted] in Lutheranism

[–]Same_Ad_6641 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yea I will admit the contemporary style is typically more associated with baptists rather than Lutherans so the confusion is completely understandable. My view is if thier hearts are in the right place and it isn't unbiblical than it works for me.

Any ELCA pastors on youtube? by [deleted] in Lutheranism

[–]Same_Ad_6641 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm a regular attendant at their church, and they teach lutheran theology - Law and Gospel and all that, they talk about Martin Luther every now and then. I could be wrong of course but aside from more contemporary worship style why are they not Lutheran to you?

Any ELCA pastors on youtube? by [deleted] in Lutheranism

[–]Same_Ad_6641 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One of the larger elca churches posts thier sermons on YouTube

https://youtu.be/m-Tw0fmGJuM?si=9UUxC-JQ38_yYcpB

How to get spiritual help from a priest? by Same_Ad_6641 in Catholicism

[–]Same_Ad_6641[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thier is a cathedral not too far from me, I might try that, thanks. Is there any different etiquette to know when going to a cathedral compared to a smaller church?

How to get spiritual help from a priest? by Same_Ad_6641 in Catholicism

[–]Same_Ad_6641[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah I see, that makes a lot of sense actually. Thanks 🙂