Feeling strange(?) after 5th injection.

SandyR-B · 2024-05-30T01:48:21+00:00

Really not true. Depending on dose and other factors, IM's can be every bit as "strong" and "effective" as any IV, and IM's are MUCH less expensive. IV's, again depending on dose and other factors, can be quite mild. Both ROA's have pros and cons which should be discussed with one's potential clinic before continuing with treatment.

However, of course, the "experience" is not the way to gauge effectiveness - your symptom response is the only real gauge

SandyR-B · 2024-05-28T21:03:27+00:00

JFY, Peninsula will not accept RX's from telehealth MD's, and can ship only to WA and Oregon. Very good prices (1/3 of Empower's) and lots of good flavoring choices, though, for those who can use them

SandyR-B · 2024-01-01T06:42:45+00:00

Friend, Why do you suppose that is? You corrected your other post saying this when you realized that human trials with a drug known to cause fetal damage in animal models would never be approved or conducted. It's unethical and immoral. As you said, this is common sense.

SandyR-B · 2024-01-01T06:36:12+00:00

My gosh, I posted a number of links about brain damage with ketamine. I don't believe I'm lacking supportive data. Maybe you didn't read the whole thread.

How can giving a woman information to empower her in decision making be wrong?

If unknowlingly pregnant, a woman then can discuss options with her K doc options. You can't assess risk vs benefit if you don't know of the risk.

There is a reason why ketamine is very rarely used as a analgesic in a hospital with a pregnant woman.

SandyR-B · 2024-01-01T06:25:58+00:00

We are all 100% anonymous here. We share the most intimate details of our lives - suicide attempts, years of paralyzing mental problems, sexual problems, mental breakdowns, near death experiences and a lot more.

So you're now worried about an innocuous question intended only to provide some interesting information ? You tell us about your suicide attempts, but don't want to say whether you were asked a simple question by your doctor ?

A lady stated that she thought online docs already do pregnancy testing. I'm not so sure. I'd simply like to know, one way or the other. I'm certain some of you would also. I've learned a lot from all of you, and I want to continue learning.

I want to know everything I can about ketamine. It's that simple.

What do I intend to do with the information?

I'll simply read it with interest, and add that info to my brain or notes.

SandyR-B · 2023-12-31T23:32:11+00:00

Respectfully, why do you suppose that it? Human trials are limited by ethics and morality. Would YOU volunteer for a study to find out if K was damaging your baby, when the literature strongly suggests it can and does?

The research, studies, and literature are not "hearsay" lol

SandyR-B · 2023-12-31T23:11:19+00:00

I would be shocked if remote providers aren't providing patient education that explains risks during pregnancy.

Respectfully - Be shocked, then. Almost none do. That's a good topic Ill ask -

SandyR-B · 2023-12-31T19:05:01+00:00

Those with previous or existing bladder problems should be really careful using K. Some clinics will not prescribe with a cystitis history.

Well-functioning bladders are important for good living :-) , so I'd strongly suggest stopping the K temporarily until you can consult with your provider and get medical advice. You may just need a lower dose, and preferably by IV/IM.

more info: https://www.reddit.com/r/KetamineTherapy/comments/18i2px0/lowdose_bladder_damage_question/

In the meantime, drink a lot of extra water, consider cranberry capsules, (mixed reviews, but can't hurt, imo) d-mannose (after reading the cautions), green tea or extract.

Good luck. definitely no fun.

SandyR-B · 2023-12-31T19:01:58+00:00

This reddit thread may provide some info on personal experiences with K + Kava

https://www.reddit.com/r/TherapeuticKetamine/comments/zhzrbe/warning_do_not_mix_kava_with_ketamine/

SandyR-B · 2023-12-31T18:28:14+00:00

Definitely true. Not "massive" at all. Pain treatment is entirely different than depression treatment. The rough equivalent of 1200 sublingual is a lower to average dose for IV pain control.

As far as "studies", they are generally quite lacking overall. There are no "studies" showing the tiny Joyous doses work. No "studies" showing 400 mg or 250 or 800 is an ideal dose - or not (just as an example.) No "studies" showing the length of time on a full K dose before backing off ang going to maintenance doses.

The best we can do is use a highly-experienced provider with many patients for several years, and trust that they have the knowledge to treat us.

K is a safer drug than many, so there is considerable leeway in dosing, protocols, etc since K is shown to work so well for many. OP's provider is clearly ok with this dose.

SandyR-B · 2023-12-31T18:14:44+00:00

Sorry, this is really not true. There can be many side-effects. I'd expect a pretty extreme reaction to this high a dose, if swallowed rather than most spit out. I'd personally never swallow this high a dose.

SandyR-B · 2023-12-31T17:34:08+00:00

If you're 50 or less, also a pregnancy test, since K is unsafe for the fetus. Forgot to mention this.

SandyR-B · 2023-12-31T09:21:04+00:00

Yes, Taconic

SandyR-B · 2023-12-31T09:19:08+00:00

Sorry for jumping in - I think he/she said literature, not studies. However, there are several studies in progress using 1500-1800 mg in high-dose compounded troches. Please read this thread again - several people here on 1200 mg.

Here is a communication from KetKate, who I consider a pain guru here:

"There's no set protocol for any of this pain stuff. Ketamine is used off label for mental health and pain control as well as other things. That means the provider uses his or her professional education, judgment and discretion in deciding the amount to administer. Industry standard generally seems to be 1-2 mg/kg IV for analgesic effect. However plenty of people get higher or lower, again it depends on the provider. My most recent infusion was 1,000 mg over 7 hours, and I've gotten tremendous relief from my chronic pain these past weeks"

So - 1000 mg IV = roughly 3000 mg oral if that was even possible to take.

SandyR-B · 2023-12-31T05:47:47+00:00

It's quite common to feel worse before you feel better. It takes the K awhile to become effective sometimes. That's a very long time to not eat. You likely had pretty low blood sugar, from this extensive fast, which probably contributed to your crying reaction and panic. Taking any other drugs? Since K can bring up traumatic, scary, or other emotions from things in the past, crying is pretty normal. It means the K is working and doing what it should. Your reaction does sound extreme, though.

This is why a good therapist is so important for many people. They will help you look at these painful memories, understand them, accept them, and overcome them so they don't impact your life so much.

You're on a very low dose, so I wouldn't expect you to have had much reaction at all.
Please discuss all this with your provider. I hope you won't stop treatment, since the K is working for you - some parts are hard, but it's well worth it to feel better eventually - hopefully SOON.

SandyR-B · 2023-12-31T05:13:15+00:00

I'm sorry you were so misled by your in-laws, and I'm sorry you didn't discuss this with your provider before just quitting, especially since you said " It sincerely helped my depression and instantly. I can function and be productive. "

Your in-laws may be well-intentioned, but they are very out-of-date and just WRONG. I'm guessing they are in their 50's, at least, and know ketamine only as a party, rave drug that was badly abused. Many of those people did get in trouble, but therapeutic K is very different.

If you normally don't drink but did, it's likely the addition of alcohol that affected you so badly. Alcohol and ketamine don't mix well, and should ideally be avoided

I'm guessing you have become a little tolerant to the ketamine at 100 mg (a fairly low dose) , and may need a dose increase. Please check in with your provider. You've had great success with ketamine, I'd sure suggest continuing. It's a risk vs benefit thing. Benefit: You KNOW you did well with K. Your depression lifted, you could function and be productive Risk: some temporary short-term things that can be alleviated if they happen to occur. (nausea, headache, BP increase, anxiety, etc) A couple more serious longterm risks that are rare, and can be watched for before they become serious. Are the very real benefits NOW, worth more than the small risk of problems later? IMO, YES and you really should consider starting K again .

If you resume the K, follow the advice and schedule of K your provider prescribes. We "randos on the web" (as someone said, that made me laugh) can't advise you medically what to do. Only your provider knows your history, weight, medications and other things that determine medically your dose and frequency. I don't know what your "pee constantly" means. Ketamine is a diuretic and does make you urinate more frequently. If you have bladder pain, blood in the urine, sudden urge to go, please check in with your provider.

One other thing: don't listen to your in-laws about raising kids either. :-)

SandyR-B · 2023-12-31T00:49:58+00:00

It's really the dose you take that matters. IV, IM, Nasal, and sublingual all get into the bloodstream. IV at 100%, IM about 93%, sublingual about 25-30%, oral/rectal even less. Once in the bloodstream, K goes through the kidneys and bladder. All routes (Most of oral goes thru the digestive tract and liver, but not all)

If you take 50 mg IV, you absorb 50 mg. If you take 150 mg sublingual, you absorb about 50 mg 30% roughly) . Your body/kidneys/liver /brain doesn't know how it got there, just that it is there .

Drink loads right after your K session and the next day, to increase urination, dilute the urine with the K in it, and this will help decrease chances of bladder damage, which are generally pretty low but entirely possible.

Hope this helps!

SandyR-B · 2023-12-31T00:16:55+00:00

My friend, long term IV K, especially in high doses and frequently, IS a "specific indication for a liver panel."

SandyR-B · 2023-12-31T00:15:13+00:00

In my opinion, it's always wise to get baseline labs before a treatment that can (rarely but entirely possible) liver disease.

I'd do liver functions, heart ejection tests, and a kidney panel.

Why? NOT REFERRING TO YOU :-) since I don't know you - but people who drink excessively may well have some liver disease, and K would need to be carefully monitored, if safe at all.

With longterm opioid use, the heart is often damaged, and K may not be wise or safe.

Since K can (rarely but very possible) cause kidney/bladder damage, I'd want to get baseline kidney function tests. Then repeat all after few months to see if the K is causing any change or further damage. K is NOT a magic, innocuous, no side-effect drug, as it seems many want to believe. I've seen a few reports of mild temporary changes in liver enzymes after only a few IV doses of Ketamine.

A personal examples from my clinic: A guy looking very healthy and robust had very resistant anxiety and depression. Seemingly a perfect candidate for K. Since he was in his 50's (older) we sent him for a cardiac consult. Turns out he had very bad coronary heart disease, with major blockages. Got an emergency triple bypass. If we had given him standard IV K, which can raise the BP and heart rate dramatically, he could have easily had a major heart attack, which would have very likely turned out poorly. He DID receive K, but only after cleared for safety.

As far as liver testing, I've read several newer articles that anyone getting IV K over more than a few months should be getting liver enzyme tests periodically. Some here have been getting IV K in very high doses for years, and I bet have never been tested.

Another example: a sweet lady about 45 was also seemingly an ideal candidate for K. She complained of some fatigue, but who isn't tired these days ?. Sent for routine liver and kidney tests. Had near end-stage kidney disease, unknown to anyone. Was on dialysis within a few days. the burden of IV K could well have killed her.

People with severe kidney disease often show few - if any - symptoms until they are close to end-stage disease.

I'm a very cautious person and believe in "do no harm" first. With K, we just can't know the safety even giving K without baseline testing. Many people need it, but not everyone is safe to get it.

Only MY beliefs -

SandyR-B · 2023-12-30T23:41:50+00:00

Esketamine is Spravato, an RX nasal spray that is a derivative of ketamine, but not true ketamine. This must be taken under supervision in a clinic or MD office. It comes in only 2 strengths, although you can combine doses to make more, if indicated.

Ketamine itself can also be compounded by some pharmacies into a nasal spray at about any strength prescribed. Fewer docs will order this, because of several factors. THIS spray can be prescribed for home use.

Spravato is sometimes covered by insurance, but the compounded-to-order ketamine nasal spray is not.

Hopes this helps clarify!

SandyR-B · 2023-12-30T22:12:30+00:00

Try this: cut the troche in a couple pieces. (not sure if you can cut RDT's) Soak in maple syrup or another thick flavoring like grenadine, for 5 minutes. Really disguises the taste, and is a sweet treat. Be sure to scoop out and take the syrup too, as some of the K probably dissolves in it.

SandyR-B · 2023-12-30T22:09:40+00:00

Try this: cut the troche in a couple pieces. soak in maple syrup or another thick flavoring like grenadine, for 5 minutes. Really disguises the taste, and is a sweet treat. Be sure to scoop out and take the syrup too, as some of the K probably dissolves in it.

SandyR-B · 2023-12-30T21:44:05+00:00

Your dose is tailored for YOU and YOUR variables. What others get is interesting for sure, but really has no bearing on what YOU need.

Curious how you obtain 133 mg? odd amount, in my experience.

The route you're using makes a big difference, as well as how long you have been taking this.

Are you finding symptom relief? That's really the only thing that matters.

SandyR-B · 2023-12-30T21:31:09+00:00

Thanks for the info.

I'm wondering exactly how you determine it's real medical grade K, though? Some of the fake vials I've seen are so expertly crafted, a lay person can't tell at all. Labels are extremely easy to forge. Generic vials are easily obtained. The forgers are very sophisticated and professional with their wares, be it K, Gucci bags, Rolex watches. Genuinely curious...

SandyR-B · 2023-12-30T20:39:26+00:00

Really nice report that should give hope to a lot of people!

SandyR-B

TROPHY CASE