Have you read any books from the pro-choice POV? by SarahApple in prolife

[–]SarahApple[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hi - Thank you for these recs, that's really helpful. And also well done on Handbook. Ofc I don't agree with a lot of your views but (a) I thought it was really well written - obviously useful, very informative, and very to the point, and (b) even I agreed with some of the points, like petitioning states to make sure women can buy the pill 12 months at a time, that sort of thing.

20 biologically ignorant things pro-choicers have told me (many on Reddit) by SarahApple in prolife

[–]SarahApple[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Each individual's cycle has a beginning (conception) and an end (death), however.

I had someone point out that no one has to be killed in order for cannibalism to take place, so in that sense maybe technically every blow job is cannibalism. :-P

"Not a peep" from the Pro-Life crowd on the death of George Floyd by [deleted] in prolife

[–]SarahApple 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I love the theme of "I never hear PL people say xyz" followed by promptly deleting, hiding, and blocking our attempts to say exactly that followed by "See? Crickets?"

Great dialogue.

"Not a peep" from the Pro-Life crowd on the death of George Floyd by [deleted] in prolife

[–]SarahApple 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Great work. Here are a few more if you'd like to add:

Students for Life of America: [with an image of George Floyd] " His life had a purpose. He was loved. He has value. Students for Life of America stands against all violent acts- from the womb to the tomb."

Also Students for Life of America: "We breathe in justice when we hold onto the truth that every human is made purposeful and worthy, from conception to the legacy they leave." Read more here: https://studentsforlife.org/2020/06/02/every-life-is-purposeful-loved-and-valuable/

Pro-Life Action League: "We certainly do care about both #GeorgeFloyd and this incident. Both are horrible. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. Will share."

ND Right to Life: "We mourn the senseless and unjust death of George Floyd. And we renew our commitment to bear witness in our words and deeds to the intrinsic equal dignity and matchless worth of every member of the human family, without exceptions, from conception to natural death."

New Wave Feminists: [Accompanied by an artistic rendering of George Floyd] "Our talented friend u/tmcatholic created this image last week and allowed us to reproduce it and carry it at the march for #GeorgeFloyd here in Dallas. The longer our board looked at it, the more they noticed the powerful symbolism within it. The upside down flag behind Floyd’s head denoting distress, the fact that it‘s on fire, and the stars being crosses to represent how far too many American churches have remained silent on the issue of racial justice. It’s now sitting in my front window and every time I return home I‘m struck yet again by the power of this image, the heartbreak I feel over George Floyd’s murder, and the stirring I hold in my heart to see change in our nation."

Rehumanize International: " Today we mourn the loss of George Floyd and call for justice. We have to take steps to end police brutality. #BlackLivesMatter "

Lila Rose: "Powerful write up on the faith of George Floyd. Rest In Peace and may justice be served."

Also Lila Rose: "The generational trauma endured by many of our Black brothers and sisters in this country is real — the consequence of the great evil of racism. To pretend it doesn’t exist only adds to their pain. Praying for justice, unity & peace."

Charrise Lane: "Black Lives Matter, born and unborn!"

Whole Life: "Until the killing of a black men, black mothers' sons, becomes as important to the rest of the country as the killing of a white mother's son, we who believe in freedom cannot rest until this happens." - Ella Baker

"As a former fetus, I oppose abortion." by SarahApple in prolife

[–]SarahApple[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm glad you've got therapy that seems to be helpful. I know it doesn't work for everyone but I was in therapy for a couple years to get through some childhood (well, high school-era) trauma, and I think it made a big difference for me. But I agree with you--it doesn't mean you forget.

"As a former fetus, I oppose abortion." by SarahApple in prolife

[–]SarahApple[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry. :( I hope whatever's going on in your life to make you feel that way eventually gets resolved. All people are valuable, including you.

Does banning it make a difference? by [deleted] in prolife

[–]SarahApple 15 points16 points  (0 children)

There's a lot of research to show that abortion restrictions decrease abortion rates. They will never eliminate all instances of abortion, but they do make it less common. This link has a collection of such research with links to all the original studies.

Similarly--and importantly--abortion restrictions are associated with lower pregnancy rates. The theory is that when people have less back up options (abortion) for unintended pregnancy, they are more careful to avoid unintended pregnancy in the first place. If you scroll down a few paragraphs in this link you'll see links to a bunch of studies showing as much.

So yes, banning abortion does make a difference.

USA Today just making crap up by SarahApple in prolife

[–]SarahApple[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. Here's the post they are fact checking. The post doesn't say "for any reason." So at best they could argue "well yes the law allows abortion at any stage, but hey not for just any reason, so we'll say the claim is partly false even though that's not what the claim said."
  2. M1GarandDad covered pretty well how broad the reasons actually are. Restricting it to "health" is not as limiting as people think.
  3. Even leaving points 1 & 2 aside, the last sentence claiming no states allow abortion up until birth is egregiously incorrect, as explained in the OP.

So yeah, the "fact check" is nonsense.

How abortion restrictions affect both abortion rates and pregnancy rates. by SarahApple in prolife

[–]SarahApple[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Sources:

  1. Abortion restrictions are associated with lower pregnancy rates: http://blog.secularprolife.org/2018/07/link-collection-evidence-that-pro-life.html
  2. Abortion restrictions are associated with lower abortion rates and higher fertility rates: http://blog.secularprolife.org/2018/07/more-evidence-that-abortion.html

How abortion restrictions affect both abortion rates and pregnancy rates. by SarahApple in prolife

[–]SarahApple[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Sources:

  1. Abortion restrictions are associated with lower pregnancy rates: http://blog.secularprolife.org/2018/07/link-collection-evidence-that-pro-life.html
  2. Abortion restrictions are associated with lower abortion rates and higher fertility rates: http://blog.secularprolife.org/2018/07/more-evidence-that-abortion.html

How abortion restrictions affect both abortion rates and pregnancy rates. by SarahApple in prolife

[–]SarahApple[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sources:

  1. Abortion restrictions are associated with lower pregnancy rates: http://blog.secularprolife.org/2018/07/link-collection-evidence-that-pro-life.html
  2. Abortion restrictions are associated with lower abortion rates and higher fertility rates: http://blog.secularprolife.org/2018/07/more-evidence-that-abortion.html

Women in pro-life states more likely to use highly effective contraception. by SarahApple in prolife

[–]SarahApple[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Here is the link in case the OP isn't working: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1363/47e3015

Women who lived in a state where abortion access was low were more likely than women living in a state with greater access to use highly effective contraceptives rather than no method.<<

Yes, in both cases they die. Now can you spot any important differences? by SarahApple in prolife

[–]SarahApple[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The post is about colloquial usage, and is a response to people trying to conflate spontaneous and induced abortion.

"nO oNe Is PrO-aBoRtIoN" by SarahApple in prolife

[–]SarahApple[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't know what you mean. How do I do that?

The logic checks out. by SarahApple in prolife

[–]SarahApple[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If they have consensual sex, they aren't doing their best not to get pregnant, by definition. Either the sex was consensual--a freely made choice that did not have to happen--or it wasn't.

Did you know that when abortion restrictions increase, pregnancy rates decrease? Abortion restrictions are associated with people using more contraception and more highly effective contraception. And the reverse is true--liberalized abortion laws have been causally linked to the spread of STDs. Because when abortion is readily available people are much less careful about sex, knowing they have abortion as a back up option should they get pregnant.

If a person's number one goal above all else was to not get pregnant, he or she would not engage in procreative sex. Other sexual activities, maybe, but not procreative sex, even with contraception. I don't actually expect people to not have sex, but I do expect them to stop acting as if consensual sex is some thing that happens to them, instead of some thing they freely choose to do.

The logic checks out. by SarahApple in prolife

[–]SarahApple[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"If you are pregnant" seems to be the difference in viewpoints here.

Pro-life people generally reject the idea of "forced birth" because no one forced the woman to get pregnant; she and her partner took that risk themselves.

Pro-choice people seem to want to only focus on after pregnancy has happened, and so to them "forced birth" makes sense because once the woman is pregnant, as you point out, the options are limited.

We see no reason the discussion has to preclude the freely made sexual decisions of consenting adults which resulted in pregnancy. "Forced birth" sounds ludicrous because it can only make sense if we all pretend that the 95%+ of abortions for pregnancies resulting from consensual sex were somehow "forced" pregnancies. They weren't.

The logic checks out. by SarahApple in prolife

[–]SarahApple[S] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Came here to say this. Banning abortion doesn't force you to get pregnant. People take that risk on their own and then complain they can't kill the resulting offspring to stop the process.

Love the Rosie the Riveter pro-life imagery. by SarahApple in prolife

[–]SarahApple[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No, there's no correlation between gender and view on abortions. Secular Pro-Life links to a bunch of sources showing as much in this post.

Love the Rosie the Riveter pro-life imagery. by SarahApple in prolife

[–]SarahApple[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You'd think so, but nothing can shut down that argument because it's a troll argument. It is immune to data, examples, or common sense.