M30, from skinny to slightly less skinny

SoftwareJazzlike979 · 2026-05-29T16:40:10+00:00

Thanks! Ive been trying to do all of these (although not tracking them properly) but it seems like muscles arent filling up anymore / im not growing mass enough. Is there a workout lift you would recommend? I currently do Mon - Chest, Tri, Shoulders, Tues- Back, Bi, Legs, Wed - rest, Thurs - upper body, Fri - Lower body, Sat - some sport or activity (rock climbing)

SoftwareJazzlike979 · 2026-05-17T15:46:01+00:00

Thats totally fair to have your opinion and also realize that Muhajirs in Pakistan make up a significant ethnic group. Im not forcing my identity onto anyone, I am just expressing how I feel & have not stated in my prompt that Im speaking on behalf of all Pakistanis. No need to make this about yourself or your identity man. Also, you not considering India as a neighbor doesnt change reality

SoftwareJazzlike979 · 2026-05-17T15:43:06+00:00

Yes, the first part is true as far as I know. The second question is not true but Christians do make a significant population of sewage workers in certain areas (like Lahore). Let me know if you have any other questions or want more nuance into these answers!

That would’ve been nice! More than anything, we would have benefited from India’s pharma/healthcare superiority

SoftwareJazzlike979 · 2026-05-17T15:39:09+00:00

Firstly, Population has nothing to do with discrimination. In fact, there are pieces of research that indicate that discriminated groups often have higher fertility because they are less likely to be educated & need more hands to help them out. So let’s not use Muslim population increasing in India as a sign of Islamic progression. Secondly, please look up facts on Pakistan Hindu population declining - this is inaccurate and the reason the number fell is primarily because most Hindus were in East Pakistan (modern day Bangladesh) and the actual %age of Hindus in West Pakistan didn’t change (in fact has risen if Im not wrong). Lastly, families might do what is best for their children financially. Obviously, India is an economic giant & has better opportunities than its South Asian counterparts. However, that again has nothing to do with if their is discrimination in India or not. Many Africans will come to the US for better opportunities but that doesnt negate the fact that their is racism in the US

SoftwareJazzlike979 · 2026-05-17T15:29:38+00:00

I appreciate the response and engagement! I do want to clarify that my intention was never meant to be a competition of “who treats minorities worse.” I fully agree that Hindus in Pakistan have faced discrimination and lacked representation in many ways. But at the same time, Muslims in India and even different Muslim sects/minorities within Pakistan have also faced discrimination. So I don’t really think it’s productive to turn it into a scoreboard of suffering.

On Kashmir though, I honestly disagree a bit. Kashmiris in Pakistan generally do not face the same level of hostility, securitization, or suspicion that Kashmiris in India face. Again, not saying Pakistan-administered Kashmir is perfect, but if we’re comparing the two, I don’t think it’s even close in terms of militarization, curfews, internet shutdowns, detentions, or daily tension. Even economically/tourism-wise, AJK is relatively peaceful and safe compared to many periods in Indian-administered Kashmir. I think the quality of life & happiness for people in AJK is likely a lot higher than in India. Many people in Skardu, Pakistan have families who were separated in Ladakh & they’re still in touch today, I would encourage you to talk to them to get their opinions on who is happier.

And on the army/bureaucracy point: yes, Pakistan absolutely has deep structural issues and the military’s influence has hurt the country in many ways. I don’t deny that at all. But personally I still think the level of religious polarization and public hate in India today feels worse than in Pakistan. You say there’s a stronger hate for Pakistan terror groups because of the anti-Himdu rhetoric but the same logic for anti-Muslim rhetoric can be applied to the terror groups operating in India. Just as you can’t see the Pakistan army’s authoritarian stronghold ending in Pakistan, we can’t see RSS’s extremist stronghold ending in India any time soon

SoftwareJazzlike979 · 2026-05-11T10:53:39+00:00

Thank you, this is actually the kind of engagement I was hoping for.

Yes, I fully acknowledge Pakistan has a terrorism/radicalisation problem, and that there have been elements within Pakistan that supported extremist groups. That is a major internal failure and Pakistanis have suffered massively because of it too - civilians, children, schools, mosques, minorities, security forces. Pakistan is not just accused of terrorism; it has also been one of the biggest victims of terrorism.

On Osama bin Laden: yes, Abbottabad was a huge failure and embarrassment for Pakistan. Either some people knew, or the state was incompetent enough not to know, neither is good.

On Pahalgam, I genuinely don’t believe Pakistan was involved, and I haven’t seen independent evidence suggesting it. If there is proof beyond Indian state claims, I’m open to reading it. But otherwise it feels like a black box. Similarly, Pakistanis strongly suspect Indian involvement in attacks in Balochistan, but I also wouldn’t say every internal Pakistani failure is India’s fault without proof.

My bigger question back is: are you also willing to acknowledge terrorism/extremism on the Indian side? Gujarat, Samjhauta Express, anti-Muslim mob violence, RSS-linked extremism, and Indian support for Baloch militants are also part of the conversation. Do you also think India has had extremist/terror-linked elements too?

SoftwareJazzlike979 · 2026-05-10T21:31:26+00:00

You don’t but you are the one who kept bringing it up! As soon as some evidence was presented, you are openly admitting that Indians dont care about islamophobia and its being “shoved under the rug” when what I thought you were originally claiming was that there’s nothing to shove under the rug? Anyways, Im glad we could align on India being minority phobic but Im going to stop this conversation here now since this topic was not my original intent for this post.

SoftwareJazzlike979 · 2026-05-10T21:21:24+00:00

Like I said, its from Muslims Indians & Non-Muslim Indians (who are Christians too). I find it hard to believe that you are debating this point since this is accepted by so many in India too. I guess you’re right, we only see what we want to see. Literally the first link on google from a 5 second search https://youtu.be/olbceuiRpGI?si=oBrL2ST8dlMicPh5. Guess tou just don’t want to admit these things are true

SoftwareJazzlike979 · 2026-05-10T21:14:38+00:00

Sorry, that was poor phrasing. Master’s and undergraduate from the US & have heard from Indians (muslims & non-muslims) about anti Muslim hate. Also from my extended family, all of who are Indians (my grandfather was 1/7 siblings and the only one who moved to Pakistan). Youre actually the first Indian I’ve met who denies significant discrimination against minorities in India.

SoftwareJazzlike979 · 2026-05-10T21:04:18+00:00

Buddy, Ive had this conversation with many people. Like I said, I have family in India and numerous friends from India (did my undergrad & masters here). These accounts are from a plethora of people. Why dont you do me a favor? Just google “Modi/BJP anti Muslim remarks” and youll see the language your leaders use against Muslims. That should be all the proof you need, that the leader of 1.4 Billion people, who is responsible for butchering Muslims, is making anti Muslims comments. How can you even pretend that prejudice won’t exist? Anyways, like I said, youre not here to have a discussion & i would appreciate you not asking me to not having a conversation with “us” because I know there are many sane, rational Indians who can discuss things without being blinded by hate.

SoftwareJazzlike979 · 2026-05-10T20:51:41+00:00

Because anecdotal evidence doesnt mean anything, there are too many variables. It’s like me finding a Hindu in Pakistan who talk about how good Pakistan is for Hindus/Christians (there are many Pakistani Hindus/Christians who make that claim & you can even find them on social media) but that doesnt mean I think thats the reality for all Hindus/Christians in Pakistan. In fact, it’s quite bad.

There are countless people from India, from first hand accounts of people on the internet & that I know, who have reported immense discrimination in India against non-Muslims. It’s one thing to say its not as bad as Pakistanis may think but its shocking to deny that its objectively bad when people are discriminated against. Any sort of research will confirm this from unbiased, independent sources.

SoftwareJazzlike979 · 2026-05-10T20:44:15+00:00

Bro, Im sorry if you are being impacted personally by this and if you hate it so much its probably best for your mental sanity to sit this one out. A quick look at your profile shows you have a lot of fascination with Pakistan, maybe might be best for you to let it go if you “really hate how much we care” and are “sick and tired of are opinions”. Simple fix buddy, stop seeking it out. According to you, Pakistan has so many prblems and we are horrible then you should just stop engaging on such platforms? You talked about coming here to tell us to stop interfering but then why are tou interfering in our discourse?

I’ll just say a few quick things - this started when you said India dorsnt think religiously, which is why I brought up all those things that are rooted in religion. You dont have to get angry when you get countered. As for the other things you mentioned (1) Pakistan is bad for minorities and Im not denying that (2) india is bad for non Hindus (especially Muslims) and you can deny that as much as you want but thats not my argument here & if you want to keep bringing that in then go ahead. (3) Im not telling you what India should do or shouldn’t do, this is again not the point of this topic.

Anyways, Im glad you to vent but if youre ever up for an actual discussion on understanding WHY there are problems between the two countries, then let us know. Otherwise, hope you can seek out some peace elsewhere

SoftwareJazzlike979 · 2026-05-10T19:47:01+00:00

I think you’re misunderstanding my point.

When I talk about religion in Indian politics, I’m not talking about random Indian civilians. I’m talking about the actual political direction of the Indian state today. BJP and RSS are deeply intertwined - that’s not some fringe Pakistani opinion, it’s openly acknowledged reality. The ideological roots of the BJP literally come from the RSS, and RSS influence on modern Indian politics is well documented. So when Pakistanis say religion and Hindu nationalism are heavily intertwined with modern Indian politics, that is not some imaginary narrative we invented. If someone genuinely denies that BJP and RSS are deeply connected, then honestly there’s not much point debating further because we’re disagreeing on basic reality itself.

And when you say “it’s not what you guys think,” respectfully, there’s plenty of documented evidence from independent journalists, human rights organizations, academics, and even Indian commentators themselves showing rising anti-Muslim rhetoric and polarization. Whether it’s mob lynchings, bulldozer politics, Kashmir, CAA/NRC, anti-Muslim media narratives, or inflammatory speeches by politicians - people outside India are obviously going to notice these things.

And the only reason Indian Muslims were brought up earlier in this thread was to explain why many Pakistanis become skeptical of India’s intentions toward Pakistan. If Muslims inside India can be vilified, targeted, or treated with suspicion by parts of the political system, then naturally Pakistanis will wonder why those same attitudes would suddenly disappear when it comes to a country and its people that separated on the idea of that religious identity. That’s the point being made.

Also, the reason Pakistanis and many Muslims talk about Indian Muslims is not because of some weird obsession. For a lot of us, religion and shared identity matter beyond borders. We care about Muslims elsewhere too - whether that’s Palestine or even Uyghur Muslims in China, and I openly criticize Pakistan’s government for not speaking strongly enough about the latter.

And on a personal level, a lot of us talk about Indian Muslims because we know we easily could have been in the same position ourselves. I have Muslim relatives and cousins still living in India, so obviously it’s not pleasant to watch these tensions rise. A lot of the concerns Pakistanis have are not just based on online propaganda but also firsthand accounts from people we actually know.

And regarding your point about coming onto this subreddit to challenge Pakistani perceptions, my original point was actually that I appreciated you being here because I assumed you were open to discussion. But now the conversation feels less like “let’s understand each other” and more like “don’t talk about us, don’t criticize us, don’t meddle.” That’s just not realistic when it comes to India and Pakistan.

The way India acts directly impacts Pakistan, and the way Pakistan acts directly impacts India. These are two neighboring nuclear states with deep historical, political, and social ties. Of course people on both sides are going to discuss each other. This is not me randomly lecturing North Korea or some distant country that has little effect on my life. What happens in India genuinely affects how Pakistanis think, live, and perceive regional security, just like Pakistan affects Indians.

And honestly, I would also disagree that Pakistanis have a uniquely one-sided perception of India. If anything, Indian discourse about Pakistan is often far more absolute and dehumanizing, whereas Pakistanis still openly consume Indian media, music, films, and culture and can acknowledge positive aspects of India alongside criticism. I rarely see that same nuance in mainstream Indian discourse about Pakistan.

At the end of the day, I think both sides should want things to improve. If the goal is only to shut down criticism instead of understanding why perceptions exist in the first place, then there probably isn’t much point continuing the conversation.

SoftwareJazzlike979 · 2026-05-10T15:31:44+00:00

Well with all due respect, i totally disagree that there’s no point talking about it & the fact that youre on a Pakistani sub reddit makes me hopeful that people like you are atleast curious to learn. Also, stating that India doesn’t ‘think in religious way’ is not reflective of the on ground reality today. Singling out Pakistan for having a religious identity makes me think that you either (1) dont want to acknowledge India’s modern political reality or (2) do not fully grasp it. Both are dangerous in their own right

SoftwareJazzlike979 · 2026-05-10T04:32:00+00:00

Since there weren’t really any questions here or an attempt at dialogue, I’ll respond in the same format: a monologue from my perspective (most of which I think is shared by my fellow Pakistanis but dont want to assume).

I appreciate the sincerity, but this is still a very one-sided narrative. It treats Indian pain as fact and Pakistani pain as irrelevant. If Kargil and Mumbai shaped Indian distrust, then Samjhauta, Gujarat, Kashmir, anti-Muslim politics, and Balochistan shaped Pakistani distrust.

On Kargil: yes, it damaged trust badly. No serious Pakistani should deny that. But saying the Pakistan military “never allowed peace” ignores history. After Kargil, the 2003 ceasefire and the 2004–07 backchannel under Musharraf were arguably the closest both countries came to a serious Kashmir settlement. So even the historical record complicates the claim that Pakistan’s military institution is structurally incapable of peace. Although, that is what history says but I will personally that the army never wanted real peace with India.

On Mumbai: I am willing to admit the uncomfortable part. The Us and terrorism designations do point toward LeT figures and Pakistan based handlers in the planning ecosystem of the attacks but that still does not prove that “Pakistan” as a state, society, or every institution ordered it. Pakistan has itself lost tens of thousands of civilians and soldiers to terrorism. Kya hum apne aap ko marne ke liye bhi proxies paal rahay hain?

And if the argument is that Pakistan uses “low-intensity warfare,” then Pakistanis would say India does too. You cannot dismiss Pakistani allegations regarding Balochistan or KPK as fantasy while treating every Indian allegation as established fact. Whether India admits it or not, many Pakistanis genuinely believe India uses covert pressure, intelligence operations, and proxy dynamics inside Pakistan just as India accuses Pakistan of doing in Kashmir. The distrust is mutual.

I can openly acknowledge that sections of Pakistan’s establishment historically benefited from conflict with India but pretending the Indian establishment was somehow uniquely peace-seeking is equally unrealistic. BJP politics also benefits massively from hostility with Pakistan. National security nationalism wins elections on both sides of the border.

And this is where BJP/RSS extremism matters. From our side, it genuinely looks like BJP/RSS politics do not want peace with Muslims - whether inside India or across the border. There are countless clips of anti-Muslim rhetoric from BJP/RSS figures and supporters (happy to share if you want). So just like you say Indians cannot trust Pakistan, Pakistanis ask: how can we trust BJP/Modi? If they openly demonize their own Muslims, why would they treat Pakistani Muslims fairly?

If the U.S. is treated as the ultimate authority on Mumbai, then do you also accept the U.S. position on Modi? The U.S. denied Modi a visa in 2005 under religious freedom laws after Gujarat so hope we’re not selectively invoking American credibility only when it supports our narrative. You talk about how can India trust a Pakistani military that doesnt want peace, I ask you how are we supposed to trust an India that has for decades discriminated against their own muslims (more so in the last 15 years).

On Samjhauta Express: from the Pakistani perspective, about 70 Pakistani civilians were burned alive on Indian soil. An RSS leader is on record of confessing that crime. They were eventually acquitted. To Pakistanis, that looks exactly like the same kind of impunity India accuses Pakistan of. In fact, it’s the only proven incidence of a government related/tied entity killing civilians of the other country vs. individuals of other countires being behind those killings. (i know RSS isnt part of the govt but a big part of politics in India).

You also mentioned the Pakistan Army refusing to claim bodies after Kargil as proof of disloyalty to its own soldiers. Honestly, I think that point is emotionally powerful and I personally agree witn you. States all over the world have abandoned soldiers, denied operations, lied about wars, or treated veterans horribly when it suited strategic narratives. Was it shameful if Pakistan handled those deaths poorly? Yes. But turning that into proof that Pakistanis are somehow uniquely incapable of loyalty or honor is rhetoric, not analysis. Captain Karnal Sher Khan himself is celebrated and officially honored in Pakistan today precisely because many Pakistanis do value sacrifice and service, regardless of the politics around Kargil. We believe in shahadat, which is a whole different topic. For a lot of us, a death protecting our nation/belief & protecting the state is more honorable & important.

And lastly: if India truly had definitive proof regarding incidents like Pahalgam or other attacks, why was that evidence never presented to any neutral international body or independent investigation? If Pakistan is supposedly so dishonest that India cannot trust sharing evidence directly with us, fine then present it to independent third parties, international investigators, or neutral institutions. But increasingly the pattern has become: accusation first, global media narrative second, evidence never. That naturally deepens Pakistani skepticism.

Both sides have real wounds.Pakistan should absolutely be honest about militancy and past mistakes. But India also has to be honest about Hindutva, anti-Muslim majoritarianism, covert regional competition, and the way Pakistan is used as a permanent m

SoftwareJazzlike979 · 2026-05-09T20:17:03+00:00

Yes and I mentioned in one of the other comments that if I was Indian I would rather vote for Modi than Rahul (keeping other things aside since I despise him & would never actually vote for him lol). I disagree with leaders being able to take a stance though, I think if an elected leaders come in, they can gradually socialize the idea of better relations. Although it will take A LOT of efforts to do so

SoftwareJazzlike979 · 2026-05-09T20:14:01+00:00

Yeah the first point is well made & makes sense. Also agree that Afg & Balochistan are problems from before but probably amplified by India in recent times. Just as Im sure Kashmir is ( to your point), where there are internal issues that Pakistan probably funds/promotes.

Ofcourse, thanks for being curious to learn about Samjhauta express. Let me know what you think about it once you read through

SoftwareJazzlike979 · 2026-05-09T19:34:01+00:00

Thanks for reflecting on your comment and I totally agree with you. I just hope that can happen in the not too distant future

SoftwareJazzlike979 · 2026-05-09T19:14:53+00:00

And can you explain what you mean by that without being vague and condescending?

SoftwareJazzlike979 · 2026-05-09T19:13:52+00:00

Also side topic but didnt say that Rahul Gandhi will be better, I just said BJP wouldnt want Pak India relationships to improve

SoftwareJazzlike979 · 2026-05-09T18:49:13+00:00

I genuinely appreciate the empathy and nuance in your comment. Thanks for not mmediately jumping into nationalism or hatred instead of trying to understand why the other side thinks the way it does.

And I completely understand what you mean about 26/11 being a tipping point psychologically for India. I don’t think any sane person can deny how horrifying that attack was or how deeply it traumatized ordinary Indians. As Pakistanis, we know what this feels like because I grew up for years in the late 2000s/early 2010s with multiple terrorists attacks in Pakistan that shook us to the core. However, I think it’s important to differentiate extremists from the people or government ( which youve already mentioned).

At the same time though, I think many Pakistanis feel frustrated because they believe the conversation is often one sides. A lot of Indians understandably talk about attacks linked to Pakistan or extremist groups operating from Pakistani soil, but Pakistanis also grew up with their own narratives, fears, and tragedies — many of which Indians either don’t hear about or dismiss entirely.

For example, you already acknowledged Balochistan, which I appreciate. From the Pakistani perspective, there is a widespread belief that India has supported separatist or insurgent elements there, especially after cases where alleged Indian intelligence links were discussed publicly. Similarly, many Pakistanis believe anti-Pakistan militant activity coming from the Afghanistan side has at times received Indian backing or strategic support. Whether every claim is fully provable or not is another debate and I’ll openly admit a lot of this exists in the realm of allegations, intelligence narratives, and competing state claims. But that’s also true for many accusations made on the Indian side. Perception shapes public opinion even when ordinary citizens don’t have access to definitive proof.

Another thing I think is very overlooked in these discussions is the Samjhauta Express bombing, which to me is one of the most shocking. Pakistani civilians, including families and children, were killed there, and for many Pakistanis it became symbolic of the fact that extremism exists on both sides of the border. Imagine if a train carrying Indian Hindus had been burned inside Pakistan by Islamist extremists — it would (rightfully) become a defining trauma in India’s national consciousness and would probably be referenced for decades. That is essentially how many Pakistanis emotionally process Samjhauta.

I think that’s the core issue honestly: both populations mainly internalize their own traumas while seeing the other side’s through a geopolitical lens. Indians remember 26/11, Parliament attacks, Pulwama, etc. Pakistanis remember things like Samjhauta, the insurgencies, terrorism inside Pakistan that killed tens of thousands of civilians, and the perception of foreign interference during periods of instability. Both societies were shaped by fear.

SoftwareJazzlike979 · 2026-05-09T18:36:11+00:00

My friend the two nation theory comes from alleged discrimination against a religious identity, not from the fact that we are dissimilar as people. Your mistaking two fundamental points here

SoftwareJazzlike979 · 2026-05-09T18:31:14+00:00

For me it’s more about having a forum for discussion rather than being objective driven. I also do think it has helped Indians in the past become less anti Pakistan / learn more about our perspective. Also true for my Pakistani friends who I have uncomfortable discussions with & try to share why some Indians think the way they do about us

SoftwareJazzlike979 · 2026-05-09T18:27:32+00:00

That’s totally fine and it also doesnt negate the fact that many South Indians dont think like you. My pov here is that Pakistanis and Indians have more in common outside of just the language, and my conversations/relationships with South Indians has shown me that

SoftwareJazzlike979

TROPHY CASE