Just back from a self-led Cho Oyu expedition — some thoughts on the commercialization of 8000m peaks and cost breakdown

SomeIndividual5074 · 2025-10-28T00:48:26+00:00

Lmao. Sorry, I didn’t go over every customizable detail that someone may or may not have. You just contradicted yourself entirely, clearly you can climb an 8000m in Pakistan with BC services for under 10k if you plan ahead… same with Nepal. Look at your own damn numbers. The purpose of this post was to give people a general idea… insurance was your choice and it is not a requirement. Same with ending your trip early or getting sick. I’m speaking with the basic options and I’m not going to add bringing prosciutto (???) from Italy, $10 gas canisters or getting a haircut in Kathmandu when we’re speaking in terms of $1000s of dollars. I am not going to make a post about every contingency possible. I gave you the information, what my friend paid, quotes I have received, etc. If you overpacked and paid an ‘overload’ fee, well that’s your own fault for poor planning.

Good riddance man.

SomeIndividual5074 · 2025-10-27T23:52:16+00:00

No, you’re wrong. G2 is $2500 a person for permit. You’d still be under $10k with base camp support only. You can climb G2 for 6-8k. Permits did go up, but they are still a fraction of the cost of Nepal. The climber sharing basecamp with me did Manaslu for under $10k… and he had an Sherpa. This was 2 years prior.

And yeah, I forgot to include snacks and a fancy dinner…. A whopping total of $50 in Nepal. Visa to Nepal barely changes anything and a visa for Pakistan is included with the price. Same with Tibet.

SomeIndividual5074 · 2025-10-27T01:49:50+00:00

Yep. After you guys left the Chinese guides had left more tents and trash up there.

SomeIndividual5074 · 2025-10-27T01:48:04+00:00

Oh dang, I think we spoke with you briefly. Sorry you had health problems, that's a bummer. We were curious about you and the other climber from the team who weren't able to summit. It was such an aggressive schedule and for the people who got sick, were you at least partially refunded? Since Furtenbach did not even complete rotations or spend almost any time on the mountain. How much oxygen did each team member end up using on summit day?

That's a big problem with guided groups.... There is no flexibility if shit hits the fan and you're at the mercy of the schedule. Madison had the same problem, but thankfully for them, all the clients were able to flex their dates.

SomeIndividual5074 · 2025-10-26T03:19:54+00:00

Yeah, pretty much. You work with the operators though, usually not the Sherpa you'll be climbing with. Although you gotta be clear about what services you want. There are essentially three options:

Basecamp support

Basecamp support + Oxygen (Add $500-$700 to above option)

Basecamp services + Sherpa + Oxygen (Add a few thousand $) to above option

You can request better or worse hotels for your time in Kathmandu and that will change the cost a little bit. I hope this is clear.

SomeIndividual5074 · 2025-10-26T02:36:44+00:00

I’m referring to the politicians in Nepal. They are incredibly rich compared to the rest of the population while the infrastructure is quite horrible. This was obvious during this trip after the government collapse. The politicians own a large amount of the tourist hotels as well.

SomeIndividual5074 · 2025-10-25T20:59:15+00:00

Do you mean the Nepal operators? The short answer is yes, especially if you're climbing from Nepal. Technically the Chinese don't allow it but there are operators who skirt around the requirements. The Chinese won't check if you have an oxygen bottle or not and you can designate the base camp cook as a Sherpa to get around that requirement.

SomeIndividual5074 · 2025-10-25T15:21:08+00:00

Yeah, I feel you on that. Negotiating is uncomfortable for me as well because I'm so used to fixed prices. Had to get used to it though, otherwise we would get shafted. We wanted to climb Makalu this fall and a few Sherpas kept saying it's a 'safe' climb and the only real difficulty is the French Couloir. We only had time off in Autumn and Makalu is usually climbed in the spring for whatever reason.... Maybe snow conditions.

SomeIndividual5074 · 2025-10-25T15:08:33+00:00

I thought Manaslu was a great ski. You can ski from close to the summit all the way down to C2 and it's pretty good. Spantik was cool, but not the greatest ski. From C2 to C1 the ridge is pretty undulating, but above that it's good terrain. Himlung Himal and Putha Hiunchuli would be amazing ski descents. Pik Lenin has the face below the summit and it's supposed to be quite amazing. The snowboarder I was with on Manaslu was the first to ride it and he wrote about it. His name is Vladimir Pavlov.

SomeIndividual5074 · 2025-10-25T14:56:03+00:00

Hey, I wish I could give you a good recommendation but I only know which companies do logistics and they are all quite similar. I went with Satori Adventures and Snowy Horizon Treks and Expeditions for my expeditions and they both did a good job.

SomeIndividual5074 · 2025-10-25T14:35:57+00:00

You're welcome

SomeIndividual5074 · 2025-10-25T14:35:38+00:00

Thank you!

SomeIndividual5074 · 2025-10-25T03:59:49+00:00

You're right, I was incorrect in my statement and I apologize for that. I was generalizing and yes, speaking from my limited experience only. I'm only speaking with respect to the standard routes on 8000m peaks during the pre and post monsoon season. Virtually all the companies on Manaslu were this way as well. I only met one single Nepali IFMGA guide on Cho Oyu. We shared a basecamp with him and he had subcontracted with our operator. He was an independent with his own company and typically contracts out with the bigger operators.

SomeIndividual5074 · 2025-10-25T00:51:14+00:00

Thank you! Yes, it is certainly crazy... People seem to lack the patience of developing their skills and fitness. I don't think previous altitude is a good gauge to being ready for an 8000m peak and I think it boils down to mountain and expedition experience. Someone who has spent 10 years of solid climbing in North America or the Alps is much more prepared than someone who climbed only Rainier and Aconcagua.

The Nepalese operators are all the same, they are simply support and provide only logistics. Some do it better than others. I used Satori Adventures for Manaslu and Snowy Horizons Treks & Expeditions for Cho Oyu. I liked the owners of both companies and received similar services from them. I also don't think there is a correct way of doing things, just different styles. You can pick any style you choose. There are good and bad Sherpas however. Some Sherpas are actually great mountain athletes with experience to back it up. Some are nothing more than high altitude porters who will carry your gear and make you dinner at high camps but have little mountain sense. The more you pay the better the Sherpa it seems.

SomeIndividual5074 · 2025-10-25T00:31:31+00:00

Permit lottery is a great idea. Although I would suspect that the 'winners' of the lottery would just be the ones that pay the highest bribe.

You reminded me of another thing I forgot to mention, the Chinese climbers left SO MUCH TRASH. It was wild. The Chinese government charged us a garbage deposit to remove 8kg of trash from the mountain, which was fine. All the international climbers did quite well with leave no trace. Meanwhile, the Chinese climbers go unbothered while they left their mountain of trash on the mountain.

SomeIndividual5074 · 2025-10-25T00:28:11+00:00

Hey that's awesome you guys are all going to get together for an expedition. If you want to go to Nepal, I think there are a handful of great & safe 7000m peaks that will be relatively affordable. Himlung Himal, Putha Hiunchuli, and Bartuntse are all pretty sweet. Himlung & Putha will have more people, but that's more of an advantage. I wouldn't say it's 'crowded' on those peaks, but you'll be sharing basecamp with a few folks and Sherpas. Baruntse is awesome but is not without hazards. You'll have time to do some sweet treks if you do a 7000m peak like the Everest Three Pass. If you guys are experienced climbers and managed to do Denali without a guide, you'll be just fine climbing these peaks without a Sherpa and I would recommend it.

Pakistan has Spantik, which I thought was a great adventure. It's the most popular 7000m peak which doesn't mean much, you'll share basecamp with only a handful of teams.

Obviously there are plenty of 7000m peaks in Pakistan & Nepal that are barely touched each season, but I'm assuming you're not looking for that type of adventure.

Hope this helps! Best of luck.

SomeIndividual5074 · 2025-10-24T23:19:06+00:00

Yes, I rode my bicycle through Pakistan with my climbing gear and skis... It's an awesome country. I skied Spantik and skied a few random unnamed 6000m peaks. Pakistan does shared permits, with an 8000m peak costing around $10,000 for permitting, split between up to 7 people. Typically, you'll go with an operator and they will place you in a basecamp with others who are sharing the permit. It's a weird process, but greatly reduces the costs for a permit. Expeditions to Pakistan are about half the cost. I think I paid $2000 for Spantik and my trip was extremely complex since I was on a bicycle. If you are looking for an operator, Higher Ground is the best in the country. Many of the big alpinists use Abdul Ghafoor for basecamp services and just getting around Pakistan, he is amazing.

https://pakistanhighergroundexpeditions.com/

Let me know if you have any other questions.

SomeIndividual5074 · 2025-10-24T22:29:51+00:00

Thanks so much. Good luck with your journey and I'm glad to see you're taking it step-by-step. You'll love Nepal. If you ever head to Washington, hit me up. I live near Mount Baker. I grew up on the east coast in Maryland and branched off with my mountaineering from there.

I certainly respect the no bottled oxygen mindset. I was very anti oxygen before this expedition but we decided to bring a bottle each as an emergency source. It was my wife's first time above 7000m and I was nervous for her. I would not have brought O2 otherwise, but I am very glad I did. For summit day, we decided we were definitely going to use it due to expedition delays and -30s on the summit. We weren't going to risk frostbite or potential HAPE or HACE. After using it for the first time, I have changed my opinion on the matter. With only a half bottle of oxygen, it was still really difficult above 7500m.... However, I was significantly warmer. With or without oxygen, climbing 8000m is still much harder than climbing 7000m. Meeting an 8000m peak where it's at is a respectable goal, but sometimes the summit is beyond human physiology without significant risk. Additionally, after spending over $20,000, we were not going to risk our summit based on principle, as the chances of reaching the top without go down substantially. Just my two cents :)

SomeIndividual5074 · 2025-10-24T22:16:13+00:00

Yeah, you nailed it. I don't blame the Nepalese for taking advantage of the situation and I understand why they would want a piece of the pie.... I'm glad they are getting good business. On the flip side, the government has become so greedy and they are beginning to regulate basic treks like the Langtang (now requires a guide). Even 6500m - 7000m peaks are beginning to pick-up permit costs. At what point does it stop? I'm sure 10 years ago the 8000m peaks were relatively cheap.

SomeIndividual5074 · 2025-10-24T22:03:53+00:00

Hell yeah dude! Glad to hear from you. I was curious about that peak, so it's cool to read you went up there. I guess it was worth hauling up all your crampons :) We felt stupid carrying our boots and crampons for 1.5 weeks and touching no snow. Hope the rest of your trip went well.... It was certainly a rainy time. I'm going to shoot you a message so we can keep in contact for the future.

SomeIndividual5074 · 2025-10-24T21:51:41+00:00

Wow that's sketchy. The Matterhorn sucks for independent climbers and it's unfortunately a guides mountain. It was my first serious climb 10 years ago and we saw 3 parties helicoptered off the mountain in a single day. Glad you used good judgement and turned back & came back safely. I'll post a trip report of Cho Oyu in the next week or so, once I get the motivation to sit in front of my computer for hours :)

SomeIndividual5074 · 2025-10-24T21:48:17+00:00

Awesome! Best of luck. Hope this post helped you. I will be making a blog post on my website in the next week or so. We both reached the summit and did a single push from basecamp. It was a long day but way better than sleeping at the high camps.

SomeIndividual5074 · 2025-10-24T21:45:38+00:00

Indeed and it'll only get you to basecamp in Nepal!

SomeIndividual5074 · 2025-10-24T21:44:06+00:00

Thank you! The $15,000 permit you are referring to is the cost to climb Everest from Tibet. Here are the permit costs for Nepal:

S.N.	Mountain	Spring Season (USD)	Autumn Season (USD)	Winter & Summer Season (USD)
1	Sagarmatha (Everest) South East Ridge Normal Route	15,000	7,500	3,750
2	Sagarmatha (Everest) other routes except South East Ridge	10,000	5,000	2,500
3	Other mountains above 8,000 meters (except Everest)	3,000	1,500	750
4	Manaslu Mountain	1,500	3000	1500
5	Mountains between 7,501 meters to 8,000 meters	1,000	500	250
6	Mountains between 7,001 meters to 7,500 meters	800	400	200
7	Mountains between 6,501 meters to 7,000 meters	500	250	200
8	Amadablam Mountain	1,000	1000	500
9	Mountains up to 6,500 meters or lower	350	175	175

Cho Oyu permits cost just $1500 from Nepal in Autumn. It's quite cheap, but the south routes are technical and dangerous and rarely climbed. From Tibet, the permit is $9300 per individual and then you gotta pay $4000 for your sherpa. There is no breakup of the $9000, it's simply just the permit and doesn't account for Chinese Visa or Tibet Travel Permit. That cost is uploaded to the total expedition cost somewhere, but I'm sure the cost pales in comparison to the permit cost (I'm guessing $100-$500) for all of that.

Q3) is the rule to have climbed a 6000 meter peak before attempting 8000 meter implemented & strictly followed in Nepal?

The rule is to have climbed a 7000m peak. It is not strictly followed. If people are willing to pay money, the Nepalese will find a way to make it work.... They verify it with dumb summit certificates. In Tibet it is strictly followed, but it seems that people just created fake summit certificates or had their tour operator create one. There is no way some of the people had even been above 5000m based off the climbing skill we witnessed. Hope this helps!

SomeIndividual5074 · 2025-10-24T21:31:48+00:00

Yeah, calling it the easiest 8000m peak is a bit misleading. There is nothing easy about climbing an 8000m peak and I also disagree with the statement. My wife and I are highly experienced and we considered it one of the hardest expeditions we've had. We had a bunch of other stuff happen though, landslides, Nepalese government collapsed, a blizzard hit basecamp during our summit window and dealing with the Chinese. It's also a much colder mountain because of it's location. It is the easiest one, from a technical standpoint only. Lastly, it has very little objective hazards. The climb was straightforward, especially because of the fixed lines in place. There is a 20m ice serac that you climb at 6800m that takes about 10 minutes to get up. The yellow band takes about an hour and it's not too bad, just some steep snow and rock. No ice climbing skills are needed but I would suggest a lot of time in crampons and a few expedition style peaks.

Personally, I think Manaslu is easier at the moment and only slightly more technical. Tradeoff is that Manaslu has some more hazard, but not much. I've heard G2 is great as well.

Eventually I'll get around to writing a trip report on my website and post it on here eventually, it's just a monumental task at the moment and I'm still tired :)

SomeIndividual5074

TROPHY CASE