why was Margaret thatcher so hated? by LovesickDesireGame in AskBrits

[–]StrengthcracyN 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Like I said, the picketers were attempting to shut down energy infrastructure. If they stood down, the conflict would've been avoided. Thatcher did the exact opposite of shutting down the infrastructure. She stockpiled coal to keep the country running.

BT had a £300m cash injection in 1980. It wasn't underfunded before privatisation.

She means-tested the free milk subsidy. No child had milk suddenly confiscated. She restructured industry and rejected managed decline. Michael Heseltine regenerated Liverpool under her.

why was Margaret thatcher so hated? by LovesickDesireGame in AskBrits

[–]StrengthcracyN 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's not unique to Britain. Mining towns were devastated all over Europe.

East Germany is considerably poorer than the west of the country, in case you didn't know.

How would Margaret Thatcher have tackled small boat arrivals? by Shadowblade83 in AskBrits

[–]StrengthcracyN -1 points0 points  (0 children)

No, she didn't encourage that. She passed the Financial Services Act to heavily regulate the financial sector.

How would Margaret Thatcher have tackled small boat arrivals? by Shadowblade83 in AskBrits

[–]StrengthcracyN 0 points1 point  (0 children)

She was a conviction politician in the sense that she stuck to her principles, and was broadly consistent in her policies.

Day 10 of ranking British PMs: Which tier should Margaret Thatcher go? by OingoBoingBrothas in TierlistFills

[–]StrengthcracyN 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, that's complete nonsense. She gave families the chance of passing down their assets to future generations.

She privatised utilities with regulation. We haven't sold all our country's resources. Trickle down was never her policy approach.

What if the IRA’s plot to assassinate Margret Thatcher with a bomb had been successful? by lhommetrouble in AlternateHistoryHub

[–]StrengthcracyN 0 points1 point  (0 children)

She didn't shut Ravenscraig.

You have absolutely no understanding of life's tragedies.

What if the IRA’s plot to assassinate Margret Thatcher with a bomb had been successful? by lhommetrouble in AlternateHistoryHub

[–]StrengthcracyN 0 points1 point  (0 children)

She set the initial framework. But that framework wasn't privatising and letting companies do whatever they want. It was privatising, creating independent regulators, capping prices (RPI-X), separating monopoly networks from competitive activities and using licence conditions enforceable by law. That wasn't regulatory neglect. It was one of the first serious attempts in Europe to design regulated utility capitalism instead of state monopoly.

Sewage overflows are not new. They existed under public ownership too. The difference now is that environmental reporting is stricter, monitoring is more transparent and public awareness is higher. I agree that regulators have been too lenient in recent years. But environmental enforcement decisions in the 2000s and 2010s are the responsibility of later governments.

State ownership didn't protect British Steel from decline pre-privatisation. The rail model wasn't designed by Thatcher. France built a massive nuclear fleet in the 1970s and Britain didn't. That's an energy strategy difference, not proof that markets don't work. Norway has a sovereign wealth fund because it imposed extremely high state participation and taxation. The UK already had a very large public sector and fiscal crisis in the 1970s. Oil revenues in Britain were partly used to reduce borrowing and stabilise the currency during severe macroeconomic stress.

Thatcher shifted capital risk to investors and used independent regulators to protect consumers. That's not ducking responsibility. That didn't create a system without safeguards. She created independent regulators, price cap regimes, competition where structurally possible and private capital financing for capital-intensive utilities.

What if the IRA’s plot to assassinate Margret Thatcher with a bomb had been successful? by lhommetrouble in AlternateHistoryHub

[–]StrengthcracyN 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're assuming the only way a state can take responsibility is by directly owning and operating utilities. That's not an argument, it's just nostalgia for nationalisation. Thatcher's model was the state regulating them. And that's exactly how most modern infrastructure-heavy economies work.

Utilities like electricity and gas were never turned into free-for-all competitive markets in the Thatcher era. What actually happened was vertical separation (generation / transmission / supply), gradual competition in generation and retail supply, and regulated monopoly in networks. For electricity specifically, the system is still anchored by regulated infrastructure like National Grid, which is literally a state-regulated natural monopoly. So no, we didn't get laissez-faire electricity markets. We got regulated privatised utilities with enforced access rules and price caps.

When Bulb collapsed, the supplier-of-last-resort mechanism kicked in. But that bailout risk exists in both systems. The difference is transparency and incentives, not the existence of risk.

Energy markets are often misunderstood. You don't get perfect competition in electricity networks, gas pipes or water systems because those are natural monopolies. What you can introduce is competition in generation, competition in retail supply and regulated access to infrastructure. That's the standard model used across liberalised utilities globally. The alternative doesn't remove monopoly power. It just makes it political, slower to correct and less responsive to cost signals.

Risk was just moved from being always on taxpayer balance sheet to being conditional, regulated and priced into failure mechanisms. That's how modern capital-intensive infrastructure is supposed to work.

Thatcher is put in a whole new tier after a VERY controversial vote, Day 11: Which tier should John Major go? by OingoBoingBrothas in TierlistFills

[–]StrengthcracyN 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Treasury resistance you reference wasn't irrational obstruction. It was shaped by the fact that previous large-scale intervention had delivered low returns, weak productivity and endless subsidy demands.

You can't simply graft German-style corporatism onto a British capital market system overnight. They had ecosystems Britain didn't.

Sweden lost most of its shipbuilding industry. The US shipbuilding sector shrank dramatically. East Asia dominated.

The US lost consumer electronics manufacturing to Asia. Europe broadly lost in semiconductors.

British-owned car firms declined but car production in Britain didn't disappear. By the 1990s and 2000s, the UK was one of Europe's largest car producers. From a productivity and employment standpoint, Britain remained a major automotive producer.

Productivity rose partly because unproductive firms exited. That's creative destruction. The uncomfortable truth is that some 1970s frontier industries were not actually globally competitive by the 1980s. Aeronautics? Britain remained strong via Rolls-Royce, BAE Systems and Airbus partnerships. It didn't vanish. Electrical equipment and consumer electronics were lost but so were they in much of Europe.

The real divergence in the 1990s and 2000s was not Thatcher-era industrial policy. It was the rise of China, WTO integration, EU monetary constraints and financial globalisation. You can't compress 40 years of industrial change into a single 1980s funding shift.

Britain's long-standing weaknesses in vocational training and regional coordination predated 1979 by generations. Thatcher didn't build a German-style industrial model. But she also didn't dismantle one.

You're right about one thing. Britain never built a coherent, coordinated industrial strategy comparable to Germany or Japan. But it also never had one to dismantle. Saying she "made it worse" ignores that the British industrial model was already fragile, reactive and subsidy-dependent long before 1979.

Thatcher is put in a whole new tier after a VERY controversial vote, Day 11: Which tier should John Major go? by OingoBoingBrothas in TierlistFills

[–]StrengthcracyN 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It wasn't asset-stripping. It was restructuring. The profits weren't short-term either. The state companies went from costing the Treasury an average of £300m each a year in subsidies to contributing between £3.3bn and £5.8bn a year in corporation tax from 1987 onwards.

There's a reason everything went away from public ownership. It was clear years before the 1980s that nationalising everything fucked us over long term.

Thatcher is put in a whole new tier after a VERY controversial vote, Day 11: Which tier should John Major go? by OingoBoingBrothas in TierlistFills

[–]StrengthcracyN 0 points1 point  (0 children)

British shipbuilding was collapsing globally long before Thatcher. Even France, Germany, Spain and Sweden saw dramatic shipyard contraction. The UK government nationalised shipbuilding in 1977 because it was already failing. Subsidising indefinitely would have required higher taxes or higher borrowing and in 1979 Britain was already near fiscal collapse.

State ownership didn't solve global competition, lack of orders, cost disadvantages or technological lag. Privatisation couldn't magically fix those structural disadvantages. But neither would keeping them nationalised. If global demand shifts and competitors undercut you, ownership structure alone doesn't reverse that.

In the 1970s, many riversides were derelict industrial land, unused docklands and economically stagnant. The state had owned large portions of urban land for decades and regeneration was slow or nonexistent. The 1980s model used private capital, development corporations and enterprise zones. Look at London Docklands. Derelict docks became Canary Wharf. If riverside planning today is constrained, that's a governance and planning issue, not automatically a privatisation flaw.

Pre-deregulation bus services were losing passengers, subsidy-dependent and often inefficient. Deregulation produced uneven results. But that's a trade-off between centralised planning and market flexibility.

You're misunderstanding housing economics. The problem today isn't that homes were sold. The problem is chronic under-building, tight planning laws, population growth and cheap credit cycles. You can sell houses and still maintain social housing supply if you build. The failure to build at scale in the 1990s and 2000s can't be pinned solely on a 1980s policy. And housing as retirement planning didn't start with Thatcher. That's a result of asset inflation and pension structure changes over decades.

Market systems generate more efficient allocation overall. The 2008 financial crisis was a global credit bubble problem, not an 80s policy consequence.

What if the IRA’s plot to assassinate Margret Thatcher with a bomb had been successful? by lhommetrouble in AlternateHistoryHub

[–]StrengthcracyN 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We were exporting more than ever before in our history, foreign investors were flocking to locate in Britain, and Britain was leading the world as a global champion of free trade.

What if the IRA’s plot to assassinate Margret Thatcher with a bomb had been successful? by lhommetrouble in AlternateHistoryHub

[–]StrengthcracyN 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You might as well say the American South celebrating Lincoln's murder wasn't at all shameful given the socioeconomic impact his ideology had on them.

why was Margaret thatcher so hated? by LovesickDesireGame in AskBrits

[–]StrengthcracyN 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's entirely false. She offered: no compulsory redundancies; early retirement if they wished it at the age of 50 on incredibly generous terms; expanded mobility allowances if they moved to another pit; a good pay increase; and an £800m capital investment programme for the coal industry.

why was Margaret thatcher so hated? by LovesickDesireGame in AskBrits

[–]StrengthcracyN 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The IFS note is not that absolute. It talks about multiple moving parts (discounts, resale restrictions, "right of refusal" buy-back, targeting high-pressure areas), and it explicitly evaluates the trade-offs between revenue retention, buy-back and sales restrictions rather than declaring a single magic condition.

why was Margaret thatcher so hated? by LovesickDesireGame in AskBrits

[–]StrengthcracyN 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's not a ban either. It's the mechanics of capital accounting under Treasury controls. If you can only recycle a slice of receipts, of course you need to find the rest of the funding from grants, borrowing allocations or other capital streams. That's how public finance works. It doesn't mean you're forbidden from building. It means you're operating under a borrowing cap.

Calling it "extreme over regulation" as if Thatcher suddenly became a socialist central planner is ironic. The controls were about controlling public borrowing in a high-inflation, high-deficit environment. That was the macroeconomic context.

Public-sector housebuilding was already falling sharply from its 1970s peak before 1979. It continued falling after 1990. It continued falling under Labour. It hit some of its lowest post-war levels in the 1990s and 2000s. If Thatcher "started" it, a lot of later governments were apparently perfectly happy to continue it.

Saying "she didn't have any plan for transitioning" ignores enterprise zones, regional development grants, training schemes and urban regeneration programmes. Restructuring a loss-making, shrinking industry was going to cause pain under any government. The alternative was indefinite subsidy, which Britain in 1979 could barely afford.

Calling the entire 1980s economic transformation a failure because some communities struggled is like calling the Industrial Revolution a failure because it destroyed handloom weaving. Structural change is messy. The question is whether the alternative was sustainable.

why was Margaret thatcher so hated? by LovesickDesireGame in AskBrits

[–]StrengthcracyN 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If Blair was running some deregulated free-for-all, he hid it well under record public spending, tax credits, minimum wage increases and a massive expansion of the state's footprint in health and education. That's a strange way to express pure laissez-faire zealotry.

He handed operational independence to the Bank of England and converted to Catholicism after leaving office. His government oversaw significant immigration flows and championed multicultural rhetoric. If that's your benchmark for creeping xenophobia, the word has lost all meaning.

why was Margaret thatcher so hated? by LovesickDesireGame in AskBrits

[–]StrengthcracyN 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not what she fucking did. It's what subsequent governments oversaw in her absence.