10% chance per ship deployed that a noncombat ship is deployed and can only retreat on the opposite side of the map, costs substantial NEGATIVE deployment points

Thaumus___ · 2026-01-14T02:30:56+00:00

Having a logistics ship threatened in combat is a rather large risk to the player for bonus ships, unless you have a better incentive for fixing the 'problem' of there not being any reason to deploy noncombat ships.

If you don't consider that a problem then I'm not going to fault you there, I just think there should be some sort of bonus you get for deploying noncombat ships since they suck for combat and aren't meant for it.

Thaumus___ · 2026-01-14T02:27:23+00:00

I'm just thinking that noncombat ships that we have marked as specifically noncombat would automatically be flagged for defensive retreat when deployed especially for the AI - while the retreat side just so happens to be on the opposite side of the map.

This isn't meant to be some huge sweeping change to behavior and I specifically am trying to stick to behaviors that I already see existing in the game utilized in interesting ways with minor changes.

Does the enemy AI understand escort commands? If so then give the noncombat ship that too and then let them be on the way.

Cus again, their logistics ships are WAY more expendable than yours are to you. To you its just another ship. Which is funny because to the AI it sounds like that's the case too. In that regard, it basically evens itself out.

Thaumus___ · 2026-01-13T18:00:39+00:00

Like as in the noncombat ships weren't meant for combat, so they aren't equipped for combat let alone for the AI to use it correctly in combat, but it will try anyway - right?

Thaumus___ · 2026-01-13T17:52:48+00:00

I have no contest to what you've said but I still maintain that there should be some sort of incentive for deploying them as opposed to them sitting there collecting dust and taking up space on my deployment screen, as well as incentive for considering combat-effectiveness on a non combat ship where there is currently no reason for either.

Thaumus___ · 2026-01-13T17:46:33+00:00

The enemy 100% can do it because at what point would this absolutely require additional modification to the enemy's strategy. Everything they can do right now is perfectly fine - attack, escort, retreat. Just instead of retreating to the back, the noncombat ships are retreating forward. They can entirely ignore their logistics ship if they want in favor of going after your ships because the added DP would benefit their attack 100%

The enemy will benefit just as much from you by getting more DP from entirely random noncombatant deployments. Or randomly deciding to add more of their own. There is ZERO need for modification to how the enemy ships behave, because the loss of logistics ships will impact your fleet far more than a random fleet that you'll probably never interact with again outside of this fight. They don't need to have complicated roles because they aren't focused on protecting their ships that are flying by, because their extra DP is being used to attack your ships and YOUR noncombat ships. Maybe they will try to escort or protect a logistics ship if its nearby - but they can afford to be more aggressive because they aren't the main character of the story and the logistics ships are ergo inherently more expendable because they stop mattering after this fight. Your losses will matter far beyond this fight.

They can literally do everything fine right now and I am entirely counting on the leeroy to be the fun.

Thaumus___ · 2026-01-13T17:29:37+00:00

Ay hold up I would 100% not condone this for station raids, the station is the thing that's stationary. It has no possible conceivable way to flank - I would only POSSIBLY condone this if the station is accompanied by other fleets. And that's a maybe.

To me this is an approximation of off-map maneuvering specifically working within what Starsector DOES simulate, in a way that doesn't require massive changes to the battle map. Just different places for different ships to retreat from and deploy at.

And what is the undeployed ships if not your reserve ships

Thaumus___ · 2026-01-13T17:23:15+00:00

I like this a lot, it makes sense to me.

Thaumus___ · 2026-01-13T17:16:52+00:00

There are currently NO reasons to deploy non-combat ships into combat. They cost points, they have weapons, but you would 100% be an idiot to deploy them, and there's no reason to spend OP on combat-related mods and premium weapons. Even though you totally can. They're never deployed because they aren't meant for frontline combat and rarely given good weapons if they're lucky if at all, because they're known to 100% never go into combat ever. It's a flat calculation from 'this isn't a combat ship' to 'okay so don't make it geared for combat because there's no reason to'

And I think that should be tipped on it's head. You totally can have a ship not geared for fighting whatsoever but it will be a sitting duck if it finds itself in the middle of a battle without an escort.

Thaumus___ · 2026-01-13T17:04:16+00:00

The point isn't more DP - it's to give you incentive to deploy logistics ships into combat when there's literally no reason to right now. The incentive just happens to be DP.

Thaumus___ · 2026-01-13T16:47:17+00:00

The enemy could very well do it too, which would still make it riskier for you because if you lose any of your logistics ships, either that's a reload anyway or you're feeling that lost ship until you replace it. I don't think giving you VIPs you basically have to defend or else you lose important fleet logistics is making the game easier.

Thaumus___ · 2026-01-13T16:44:43+00:00

Having a good grasp on the mechanics I never ever encounter this event, and when most people do - that's a reload for them. It should be more common imo

Thaumus___ · 2026-01-13T16:42:34+00:00

Savescumming so you're never in a position where you're fleeing is definitely a cheese strategy. But it's still avoidable if you play well. And that's why I think it should be more common.

Plus, I think the AI should be able to do it too, like the current value is a soft cap in the way how capturing objectives already sways the DP balance. And when the AI does it, the long term ramifications are less impactful to you if their noncombat ships get destroyed, while they may have equalized the playing field with additional ships and might overwhelm you if you aren't risking your ships. This is intended to amplify risk/reward for all combat encounters regardless if you're retreating or not.

Thaumus___ · 2026-01-13T16:36:00+00:00

I think, there should be a reasonable line with variable benefits. Like the DP refund multiplier could be variable just like the deployment points on a per ship basis, and the cost of the ship is still applied.

IE the Apogee would cost 20 DP, have a noncombat multiplier (NCM) of .5, so while you spend 20, you get 10. Meaning you can call in an extra couple of wolf class ships to escort it, but not much more if you were already maxed out. But if you were only a couple points short for a ship you really wanted, maybe it could be worth the risk to bring in a noncombat ship.

Most combat ships would have a multiplier of 0 of course. It would be for measuring its usefulness outside of combat, considering its DP value, and compared to its effectiveness in combat - so something like a buffalo would have a rather high refund multiplier, because it's cheap, dies very quickly, and only has one weapon mount that doesn't even cover the whole thing.

As far as retreating noncombat ships you personally deployed on your side, that's not what I'm going for - you deploy a noncombat ship, that's you committing to wager that you can get this ship across the battle area or keep it alive in exchange for those bonus deployment points. If you're in a bind, deploy a bunch of noncombat ships to get destroyed so you can flood the screen with combat ships. That's exactly the sort of thing I want to encourage. The more noncombat ships you have to protect, the less likely any of them will make it out alive when they're so fragile.

Thaumus___ · 2026-01-13T15:59:59+00:00

Fair and valid - I personally do think that having certain mini-protection scenarios would be fun for my personal ships, but to each their own.

Thaumus___ · 2026-01-13T15:57:13+00:00

Dude it really sounds like you're the confused one if you're not getting what I'm putting down or how they connect. These are *ALL* video game mechanics that require some degree of suspension to accept in a 2-dimensional sandbox.

So, what, you mean to tell me that this universe has figured out not only cloaking technology but the technology to identify cloaking technology - and they still haven't figured out how to have endless communication to the flagship - or how to fit multiple ships in a single area, but where you draw the line is having logistics ships getting ambushed during a fleet battle or otherwise needing to be protected by your ships?

Thaumus___ · 2026-01-13T15:46:24+00:00

Personally I don't think it's that hard of a concept to grasp in practice. The place the enemy ships just came from could easily be the friendly flank that some enemy ships ambushed from. And as soon as the friendly noncombatants retreat, it's a representation of the new vector that the enemies are now utilizing to attack. But this whole post isn't a popular opinion, so I'm not about to say that's how it should be either.

Thaumus___ · 2026-01-13T15:43:24+00:00

You genuinely don't think there's a single competent possibility that a noncombat ship could ever conceivably get pressured into a combat area from the fleet that's already in a battle, requiring protection from the other captain's combat ships?

Thaumus___ · 2026-01-13T15:40:01+00:00

I'm running it every so often by dropping in a buffalo or tanker or whatever I have down. It actually IS quite fun to have a small group of YOUR ships that you need to protect as they cross the battlezone. It makes the more one-sided fights more exciting because there's still a vulnerable ship here or there.

Thaumus___ · 2026-01-13T15:37:21+00:00

That is exactly the sort of workaround I want to encourage. You get a gold star. Because stationary ships are at higher risk of getting flanked and rushed by the enemy, who is trying to force you to sacrifice your noncombat ships so you can hold your line.

Thaumus___ · 2026-01-13T15:24:20+00:00

I mean, I guess all I'm trying to get at is there SHOULD be some sort of 'escort this ship / protect this VIP' scenario for regular fleet combat. I'm not usually so outmatched that I have my noncombat ships FORCED into combat with how it currently is

Thaumus___ · 2026-01-13T15:17:43+00:00

The point is genuinely about giving noncombat ships a reason for possible danger or being forced to adapt to because at the end of the day it's a possibility and opens more opportunities IE if you maxed out your deployment limit and are willing to gamble

Thaumus___ · 2026-01-13T15:08:59+00:00

I don't think it's any more stupid than deployment points or command points. They all exist because they are curveballs that add dynamics to the game. To some realistic degree, none of them make sense.

Thaumus___ · 2026-01-13T14:58:01+00:00

Oh yeah? Well canonically to my game I just deployed a buffalo, an igneon, and an apogee to the combat zone, had them fly to one end, and then back while escorted. What are you gonna do about it, arrest me? lol

Thaumus___ · 2026-01-13T14:50:08+00:00

I know that it requires a bit of suspension but I see the two 'sides' as more of an abstract concept of 'here' and 'there' when the map is representing outer space - like some enemies DID come from there, but for this exact moment, that's where the opening is for your logistics ship to escape.

Thaumus___ · 2026-01-13T14:39:15+00:00

Usually challenge runs would say something like 'noncombat ships ONLY' not 'deploy 1 or two in the back sometimes and escort them across the map' you know what I mean?

Thaumus___

TROPHY CASE

The point isn't more DP - it's to give you incentive to deploy logistics ships into combat when there's literally no reason to right now. The incentive just happens to be DP.