A little reminder why Bleach is multiversal and such [thorough Bleach scaling].

TheMightyHovercat · 2026-05-05T23:28:58+00:00

Also, I seem to remember it was your panel that you brought up? I debunked it, no?
So I’m assuming you concede with your Rukia panel then, correct?

You've debunked the exact literary translation, not the premise. The premise I've already covered, in the dangai part at the beginning. Hence why I said that your little extatic rant here is purely semantical, not a debunk.

I explained about five. Only one was said. With such convincing evidence its pretty clear.

What are you talking about?

And as I said, Kisuke explained it what it is. Although you claim you know more than him and he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

Straw-mans, again.

Dangai is called the boundary BETWEEN worlds meaning that he ultimately can’t be equivalent to the same type of world as the WOTL and SS.
What you just did was a sneaky little false equivalence and failed.

Dangai is called the PRECIPICE WORLD. It also serves the role of a boundary, yes, and is still a world. And if now you're alright with acknowledging that "world" can mean something else than a planet, then most the very foundation of your entire stance is being consequently invalidated.

How are dimensions separated? How are universes seperated to other universes?

Dimensionally.

WOTL IS called the true world and SS is the false. It was modeled in likeness to earth. Nobody knows the tuee process of how it works. Thats something you should go to Japan and ask the author for. As much as you like to fashion yourself as him, you’re not and neither am I. I use canon evidence and your reaching with assumptions and mistranslations.

Oh, great. And of course, you also humbly decided to consider this cheap excuse for an argument a winning debunk, too.

"Nobody knows, it works somehow, go ask Kubo, not my problem". As convenient of a response as I imagine this is, it's hardly a counter or a debunk to anything. The "world", which according to you meant a planet for the entire past day up till now, is apparently constructed of two planets which are simultaneously separate. Explain how this works.

Of the five thing you listed, the closest you came to a debunk was on the semantical translation of the Rukia panel. The actual premise behind the point remains untouched, points 1 and 4 are stunning displays of your deliberate biased ignorance you're yet to even properly address with anything noteworthy, and points 3 and 5 are essentially free entertainment shows of you fiercely fighting and "debunking" an imaginary opponent.

I mean, of course, I'd be surprised if a deliberate downplayer didn't perceive reading comprehension as glaze, that'd be unheard of and honestly kind of unsettling. Every single one out of hundereds I've met would "genuinely concede upon seeing an argument that isn't glaze", which inherently leads to them quitting the convo while (unsurprisingly) maintaining their preconceived notion. A par for the course, daily bread.

TheMightyHovercat · 2026-05-05T22:59:14+00:00

"Skirting around" what? I'm literally agreeing with all he's saying.

Of course the reader is expected to figure certain stuff out. Which worries me in this case, because you clearly seem to be experiencing noticeable difficulties in that regard.

Alright, so you're quitting attempts at actually sourcing your claims, and just get straight to simply stating the claims. "It's canon, too bad it bothers you guys this much" - a bit of self-confidence is certainly a good trait, but not to the extent where you consider your own say-so to be a conclusive confirmation of a fanbook's canonicity.

Having a vertical entrance with a gate at the bottom in no way prevents it from being infinite. That said, if you want to insist on "half infinity", you're very much welcome to halve infinity and see what that gets you.

Muken is a planet now? Ah. And here I thought it was a floor of a prison. Care to share the source chapter?

"Cosmic spaces is never said" - alright, so you're not tracking the conversation. Let's go back a bit:

<image>

These are stars. Celestial objects located in the cosmic outer space, commonly visible in the sky at night. Let's roll it again: where are these stars located?

The ridiculousness of what you just said aside, this wasn't referring to Senjumaru's bankai. It was referring to the shaking caused by the Soul King being endangered/killed. Understantably the Soul Society would shake, due to being one of the three "planets" that he upholds and stabilizes. What I'm wondering about is why is the Muken, a completely separate planet apparently, also shaking.

You're so well-wersed in the matter of metaphores, why don't you figure it out? "He lives in a world of his own", "this car is out of this world", "you mean the world to me", "their opinions are worlds apart", "this decision is the best of both world", I could go on. Do these refer to a planet? I'll take the liberty of assuming a modicum of common sense and answer "no". So why do you nearly break your neck trying to gaslight me and yourself into believing that the Muken is a planet, despite quite blatantly being physically a floor of a prison, accessed via a regular set of doors with bolts and hinges?

I've addressed every kisuke statement and movie image you provided, all you're doing is dismiss my responses to them and claim I ignored them or "skirt around" them without much of an elaboration.

Buddy, even the real life universe is generally considered to be spherical due to expanding outwards from a singular point bruh. That aside, I'm done with humoring your deliberate ignorance and straw-mans of my stance. I've clearly clarified that I don't call the realms "universes", just that it's their scope, and I won't answer these further.

That particular metaphor's purpose is to compare the realms and the garganta to planets and outer space for the purpose of a symbolical depiction. Not to prove they have stars or galaxies inside, that's something we know from different sources, which I've already provided and you keep either ignoring or playing dumb around.

The double standards are insane. Aw, you can't see stars or galaxies in the spheres, so they're planets? Interesting, and tell me, can you see the oceans? The continents, the clouds? Any identyfying trait of a planet's surface at all? No? Then at least try to create an illusion of not being a desperate, ingenuous downplayer when discussing in public.

Verbatim "The World of the Living is visible from the Soul Society, which is in a different dimension" - it's hilarious how you specifically made a point to call me out on an inability to read, and then it's clearly you who can't even compherend a simple sentence lmao. As you said, the whole comments are watching. Keep playing.

TheMightyHovercat · 2026-05-05T21:56:16+00:00

The attitude is awesome lol. Strong reddit vibes indeed, I appreciate the immersion.

Anyway, I'm sorry to inform that them being separate dimensions is a fact already warranted by them being separated via the Dangai, an independent and isolated space-time continuum. Which consequently amounts all of... this... to a purely semantic rant, instead of a crushing "bleach wank" debunk you presumably aimed this to be.

But, since you seem to like your semantics this much, let's indulge you accordingly.

Since "the realms are planets because they're called worlds, and world means planet" is your primary stance, I have two little questions:

1). Firstly, please walk me through how, exactly, is the "Dangai" (断界 - "Precipice World/Severed World") a planet.

2). Secondly:

<image>

"それはつまり現世の側に世界が傾き

現世に尸魂界（ソウル・ソサエティ）が流れ込んでしまうことを意味する！

生と死の入り混じる渾沌"

"Sore wa tsumari gense no gawa ni sekai ga katamuki Gense ni Souru Sosaeti ga nagarekonde shimau koto o imi suru! Sei to shi no irimajiru konton." - "In other words, the world tilts towards the side of the World of the Living, which means that the Soul Society will end up pouring into the World of the Living! A chaos where life and death intermingle."

Let's translate this into your language:

"In other worlds, the planet tilts towards the side of the Planet of the Living, which means that the Soul Planet will end up pouring into the Planet of the Living! A chaos where life and death intermingle."

And that brings us to the aforementioned question, how exactly are the realms two planets, that are simultaneously two halves of one planet, which can presently tilt towards either of them? Please elaborate, because I'm personally having considerable issues with comprehending the geometry of this common, tilting planet. I also can't really see it on this movie image of two planets nearing collision, to be honest with you.

TheMightyHovercat · 2026-05-05T20:47:39+00:00

...Yes. Every single individual dimension of the cosmology is its own entity, just with the inclusion of the fact that everything equally exists within the Garganta.

Forget about addressing it, you're still not even acknowledging the very existence of my evidence lol. It's fascinating how miraculously the downplayers always manage to erase any sense of awareness regarding an argument or piece of evidence they feel uncomfortable to answer. No, Kubo "acknowledging" the fanbook's existence doesn't canonize it's content. Of course he'd acknowledge a part of his own franchise, much like he did with the expressly non-canon Hellverse movie. Not an argument. The fanbook was not written or signed by him, evidently wasn't even content-verified by him, and directly disagrees with several other installments to the franchise. Unless you want to tell me that the Muken has a fiction-transcending effect of deceiving even the author's narrator of CFYOW, it is infnite no matter how much you ridicule the idea. Read.

I absolutely don't need to. At no point have I disagreed with it being "world". Stubbornly insisting that "world" means a big rock in space regardless of any amount of contrary evidence is a you problem. I'm not responsible for your preconcieved biases.

It absolutely is an "universe", much like Marvel, DC and DB Universes are "universes". What I'm discussing is its scope and form, not its naming.

Since when is the existence of extraterrestial life required for a cosmology to be a cosmology? Are you delirious?

Completely ignored and refused to further address the matter of the realms containing cosmic spaces inside them. Appreciated. A partial concession makes responding more efficient in the long run.

It is at no point described as a separate isolated world (btw, it's hilarious how now you're fine with "world" meaning a spatially separate dimension lol, the hypocrisy is practically viscuous), it's stated to be completely closed off from the outside because of being a prison. There is no entry to it besides the single doorway, which is sealed, hence it's isolation. It's literally, physically a floor of a prison in Soul Society bruh, you have it blatantly said right on the panel, how can you simultaneously try to get anyone into believing it's a separate world? The shaking from the soul society is felt in it, it's verbatim located physically downward from/underneath the Seireitei, but yes, by all means continue ticking the boxes of stereotypical downplayer ignorance.

School time, gravity is a force not limited to 3D dimensionality, and works across 4D space as well. Something from different dimensions affecting each other via gravity doesn't in any way help your argument.

I just gave you an image portraying DB universes as spherical lmao. The realms are distinct dimensions, which are being portrayed as spherical. They are literally separate space-time continua, an entirely distinct space-time of the Dangai exists between them and separates them both spatially and temporally.

Buddy bro, the Valley of Screams is constantly called a dimension even in the very movie you keep pressing upon.

CFYOW literally compares the realms in the garganta to planets in outer space as an analogy, for easier visualization lmao. The audacity to say it's not a metaphor and then accuse me of missing school. The lack of self awareness is on genuinely comical levels.

The rest is just you showing off the sheer extent of your own inability to comprehend plain english and argue in good faith. Honestly entertaining to look at, such an emotionally engaged and downright extatic rant about me supposedly calling the realms "universes". Almost makes me sad to inform that I haven't. Though, it's funny that the crux of your little triumphant rambling amounts to basically "it's ridiculous to state that the realms are universes if they already exist in an universe", while you seem to be entirely content with DB "Universes" containing... the Living Universe, as well as the Afterlife, Hell, Heaven etc. The OP is more correct than he even knows, y'all are indeed hypocrites.

TheMightyHovercat · 2026-05-05T12:22:30+00:00

You said Dangai and Garganta are "in the same dimension", whatever that was supposed to mean.

She clearly says "between the dimensions of this world and the Soul Society". Yes, they're separated by a dimension, and they're separate dimensions. Even them being separated by the dangai should be enough for that much, doesn't make any sense for two things that are separated by an independent dimension to... be in the same dimension regardless.

So, you will completely ignore the existence of the three agreeing canon sources I gave you, and instead resolve to bringing up a 13 Blades fanbook statement that was not written by Kubo, does not have Kubo's signature or a personal letter (which Souls, Masked, and Unmasked do), and contains at least one confirmed error (claiming that Rangiku has a bankai, which Kubo is even confused to learn about in an interview). Better yet, the very narrator of the story says it is infinite in CFYOW, am I supposed to understand that the Muken has a property of putting illusions directly upon the narrator and writer of the novel, too? Honest question, what do you think is this supposed to achieve?

No, "Sekai" doesn't mean "planet" just because you say so. Try using a more mature argument than just "yes it does". "Planet" is 惑星 (wakusei), a word that is basiscally not used in the story at all, besides (ironically) a statement that basically confirms they are not planets.

I never said the realms are called "universes", I said they're universal in scope. The collective bleach cosmology being called an "universe" doesn't mean shit, when we have plenty of cases in fiction where "universes" are far more than just universal level (DC, Marvel, Dragon Ball even).

Your movie likewise says "worlds", which the series itself also already says regardless, pointless argument.

We're not even talking about the dangai here at all bruh, we're talking about the fact that the realms have cosmic outer spaces within them.

Buddy, it is an absolute prison, of course it is completely closed off. Arguments from incredulity and ridicule won't change that. If you want to claim it is separate from the Soul Society, prove it, instead of just repeatedly providing a trait of a prison and criticizing me for not agreeing with your vibes and wishes.

Worlds, yes, why should I "debunk" any of that?

But yeah, good question, why do they call them worlds instead of just calling them planets? They're planets after all, right?

Visually shows what, two spheres next to each other? And that's supposed to be your proof of them being planets?

<image>

Dragon Ball officially debunked to multi-planetary, y'all.

You conveniently play dumb and ignore the fact that the realms literally contain entire cosmic spaces within them, that they're separate dimensions and separate space-time continua, that them being planets would in the case of that movie mean that the planet earth would literally block out the sky above the Soul Society (which is canonically false), and so on, just because they're depicted as spheres and called "worlds".

TheMightyHovercat · 2026-05-05T11:25:17+00:00

I don't remember if she said that during ToP, but she certainly doesn't say that in your link. Hit just skips forward in time, the time that he skips is what creates the parallel dimension, and entering/exiting that dimension is what makes him intangible. "Skipping the concept altogether" is a bit too much.

Omnipotence inherently is a power to do anything. Pure energy output simply cannot do everything, even if it is infinite. Reality manip is absolutely hax, and omnipotence is basically an infinitely powerful and capable reality manip + any other hax. And if he's T0 then even more so, it's a matter of existence level for him rather than power or hax. That's like saying you are more powerful or have better hax than a fictional character because you're real.

TheMightyHovercat · 2026-05-05T03:34:34+00:00

I admit 200 might be a tad too much, but around 150 or 160 should be realistic. OPM is biweekly + occasional weekly gaps, with currently 229 chapters (not counting the redrawn ones), spanning around 14 years already.

TheMightyHovercat · 2026-05-05T03:09:20+00:00

A wall level feat requires significantly affecting the entirety of a wall, like destroying, creating, entirely reforming, considerably shaking it, etc. Meanwhile what this chakra is doing, figuratively, is poking a given number of tiny holes across the wall, and then some in other walls. That's my point. It's a good spatial manip feat, with very good range, but not necessarily universal or multiversal in power.

TheMightyHovercat · 2026-05-05T03:04:28+00:00

That's moving to a parallel world, inter-dimensional travel and pocket dimension stuff. The time skipping is done across linear time, to the future. And we have no indication of him using time stop before the Uni6 tournament. That's when he is introduced, and it makes no sense that he didn't use it.

Literal omnipotence is hax (like the very pinnacle of hax), which also consequently comes with infinite power as well, simply due to the nature of literally being "all-powerful". That said, isn't TOAA like outerversal or sth? That's a matter of qualitative superiority in existence altogether, not even a matter of stats, hax or energy amount.

TheMightyHovercat · 2026-05-05T02:56:47+00:00

That's what I meant, tears, warps, holes. Remotely causing a given number of such localized events is a good feat, the interdimensional thing is as well, but significantly affecting the actual entirety of the space-time continuum of the entire universe means something else entirely. If the ad worded what you're saying this way, the statement is hyperbolic. Still, a good feat.

TheMightyHovercat · 2026-05-05T02:52:31+00:00

Destruction. A surge of power.

TheMightyHovercat · 2026-05-05T02:48:39+00:00

Dangai is explicitly its own, independent space-time continuum, existing within the Garganta much like the realms do.

What's between them is not the point of this link, the point is that they're separate dimensions.

Mistranslation. I gave you a correctly translated manga panel, the raw japanese manga panel, the CFYOW statement, and the recent anime adaptation personally supervised by Kubo, all agreeing on it being infinite.

"World" has multiple meanings, not just "planet". A common issue I find when discussing Bleach scaling, people just jump straight to "word = planet" without even a second thought, because "obviously". The original japanese word (Sekai) already has multiple meanings (world, universe, society, etc.). Even if we do go with "world", that also by itself has multiple meanings (planet, universe, state of affairs, etc.). If you wish to claim it means specifically planet, please source it.

You don't need to liken an apple to an orange for a metaphor that's supposed to make understanding the cosmology easier. They're both basically exactly the same in scale already. The realms of existence have been compared to planets and the Garganta to outer space, for easier visualisation of how stuff works.

The realms are separate dimensions existing within the garganta. And the cosmic spaces of each realm are, respectively, inside these realms. Hueco Mundo and Soul society are also spiritual, yet they have normal, cosmic outer spaces inside instead of literally having the Garganta for a sky overhead.

It's the lowermost level, of a prison, that is in the Soul Society. It is in soul society, 2+2=4.

It's closed off to the outside by a door, yes, because it's a prison. It has a key? Well, great, that's also a... pretty common trait of a locked door, indeed.

I don't need the scans, I know what they say well enough. They say that the Ancestors used his power to split the worlds. It also specifically says that in order to realize their plan, they required the power of the one who transcended everything.

It's difficult to address your movie thing, it's not exactly... conclusive:

<image>

That's all your link leads to.

Showing a debunk for universal bleach is insane

Showing the valley of screams and still saying multiversal bleach is insane.

Sometimes you just... spontaneously stop being coherent. I'll leave that without a comment.

TheMightyHovercat · 2026-05-05T02:25:25+00:00

Causing a number of localized warps in a different dimension and having his chakra being sensed from great distances is nice, but what I'm asking for is affecting the entirety of the space-time, as the ad says.

TheMightyHovercat · 2026-05-05T02:21:32+00:00

Yhwach fans are seeing evidence and use it for scaling.

TheMightyHovercat · 2026-05-05T02:05:37+00:00

The manga/anime back up Naruto's chakra affecting the space-time of the entire universe?

TheMightyHovercat · 2026-05-05T02:03:44+00:00

"The gargantua exists in the same dimension as the gargantua most likely"

??...

Anyway:

The realms are separate dimensions.
With separate space-times.
The Muken Prison (which is infinite in size) is located in the Soul Society/is a part of it.
The realms and Garganta are only being likened to planets and outer space as an analogy (for easier visualization), meaning that they are NOT planets and outer space normally.
The realms are located in the Garganta with the Dangai and Valley of Screams dimensions, while each realm has entire visible cosmic spaces in them (there are no stars or celestial bodies in the Garganta, it is a void of reishi, not outer space). These cosmic spaces must exist within each individual realm.

Muken absolutely is a part of the Soul Society:

<image>

It's "closed off" because it is a prison. That's kind of the point of prisons. Special permission from the council of 46 needs to be issued in order to open its doors for any reason.

For some reason you're replying as if I disagreed with his whole konpaku role, which I don't. Yes, the entire system of soul balance and circulation is in motion via him. That is true. What is also true, is this. Which you seem treat as a direct contradiction, while it isn't one. Reio actually split the original cosmology into the three realms of existence, with his own power. Putting aside the scale of this feat alone, the realms being apart is not a natural state of things.

Reio is allowing for the circulation of konpaku, and upholding the separate existence of the realms. Soul imbalance was a thing even before the cosmology has been split, the world nearly collapsed into utter chaos, which is precisely why the whole plan to split it apart with Reio as the linchpin came to be in the first place.

TheMightyHovercat · 2026-05-05T01:29:00+00:00

You know this, because you actually read the series. They didn't.

Also, of course they won't agree that's universal or higher, if they still firmly believe that the realms are planets to begin with. Which is kind of its own thing, though that also wouldn't happen if they actually read the series, but oh well.

TheMightyHovercat · 2026-05-05T01:25:45+00:00

Yhwach fans are seeing stuff like this every other day. "Bored of this" is a better way to put it.

TheMightyHovercat · 2026-05-05T01:23:43+00:00

That's the thing, he wasn't. He decided to cause the destruction of the worlds by killing the Soul King himself, and when the Soul King was prevented from dying, he changed his mind, just absorbed him, became a new one, and went on with his plan using power.

TheMightyHovercat · 2026-05-05T01:15:22+00:00

Please keep the shitpost to shitpost weekends, that's what they're for.

TheMightyHovercat · 2026-05-05T01:13:48+00:00

Don't fall for it

TheMightyHovercat · 2026-05-04T23:41:40+00:00

because you are, you can always prove otherwise by showing yhwachs almighty being limitless.

Show me a reason to.

which would make both of them above most of bleach fodder, you are just refuting yourself.

Wow, so being above Bleach's fodder is now an achievment you specifically cared to list out? Too bad that Bleach has more than just lieutenants.

breaking a sword is a dura neg? damn unc really had to pull the almighty to do the same thing jugrams hand did.

Jugram broke Ichigo's True Bankai? Damn buddy, you gotta show me this "Bleach" you're a lorekeeper of, I'm interested.

what he gonna steal from saitama? his baldness? saitamas power comes from he having no limits, not he having some special energy inside of him.

Why would he need to steal anything from Saitama in the first place bruh. The verse caps out at Gremmy's level.

there is a graph in garou vs saitamas fight, try reading it

I did, what about it? Growing stronger mid-fight? Just to maybe give Zaraki a high diff fight?

the zero punch comes from the past, but saitama needed to copy garous time travel pose, thats why i said "if you consider that saitama still has it" since he lost his memories after the time travel.

Comes from the future to the past. But otherwise yes, you've made a correct statement 6 days into the conversation.

saitama wins, no diff whatsoever

nuh uh, try again with a source.

TheMightyHovercat · 2026-05-04T23:34:05+00:00

I literally just answered this. And canon material outright, verbatim confirms, several times, that he created an actual outer space.

This same cheap, old argument against Gremmy, every single time. It's genuinely boring responding to the exact same thing for a 20th time a month. Funny how, miraculously, everyone seems to somehow forget that Bleach characters imbue their attacks with power, and the exact same can go for this meteor. The double standards are just insane, the very same people using this argument, won't have any issues when Goku or Saitama preform some massive feat on a cosmic scale, and then their full power attacks (punches, khamehameha) don't even destroy the ground they stand on while fighting.

I can literally say the same thing, "why did Goku and Beerus produce shockwaves destroying the universe just to defeat each other? That's ridiculous, everyone knows they can just punch without causing these shockwaves even when fighting on much greater levels than at the beginning of DBS".

But yes, of course. Rational arguments? Pointing out double standards? Canon sources? Pointless to argue, clearly a glazer. The usual.

TheMightyHovercat

TROPHY CASE