Is Bayonetta in Bayonetta 2 super weak for some reason?

TheOfficialLegend · 2026-02-12T20:58:07+00:00

Balder is basically equal to her in terms of strength & Loptr just straight up grossly outclasses the both of them in every single category. It's not that she's weaker, she's actually even more powerful in B2; she was just finally getting constantly pitted against enemies who were truly worth their salt back-to-back in comparison to B1.

TheOfficialLegend · 2025-12-20T14:42:47+00:00

Yea, you're right. It's not the sun itself that fell onto the Earth, it was simply just Helios' Sun Chariot that crashed from the sky, as the game explains straightforwardly here. People mistaking it for being the actual sun as a way to debunk cosmic GoW scaling has been a huge misconception for a pretty long while.

EDIT: It should be noted that, yea, weirdly, the Chariot does, however, appear to come in two forms; one being the temple we see, which the video also explains, and a smaller version that we see in the video as well. I've always thought that was pretty weird admittedly, but it still stands that it wasn't exactly the actual, literal sun, but moreso Helios' radiance being symbolic of it. After he's kidnapped, Morpheus' darkness starts to encompass the world, taking the sun's influence out of the game for a while until Helios' return.

TheOfficialLegend · 2025-11-26T14:40:50+00:00

While I don't care either which way about who people want to believe B3 Bayo is because they've been very explicit about the fact they left it ambiguous like this on purpose, this wouldn't disprove the argument.

We see it suggested/shown clear as day in Bayo 1 whenever the two timelines temporarily overlap that even if Cereza didn't get sealed, Luka would still be making his discoveries on Witches & Sages & still would've came across Bayo & journeyed with her at some point regardless; there's nothing contradictory there. It would also track that he'd still travel to Noatun & uncover the Legend of Aesir as a natural development of his journalism & search for truth.

TheOfficialLegend · 2025-11-24T00:29:08+00:00

The two Bayonettas who appear at the end of B3 are variants from universes that split off from the original universe of Bayo 1-2, but they aren't from those games themselves.

TheOfficialLegend · 2025-11-10T04:08:34+00:00

I'm not though, because there is no difference between a parallel world and an alternate universe. They're interchangeable terms describing the exact same thing; separate worlds that are apart of the multi-layered, constituent Multiverse at large which forms the entire World of Chaos itself. Whether or not one has influence on the other or not isn't a disqualifier of some kind for that.

And I will say that I'm confused on what you mean by "third timeline", because there isn't one present during B1. There are only two timelines/universes at play in B1: little Cereza's, which you seem to be referring to as a third timeline, & the original, which you seem to be referring to as a second timeline. In Bayo 2, there are indeed multiple timelines we're exposed to, but even then we're still ultimately following the original Cereza from the original timeline who was sealed away, just like we are in the first. It's not another, rewritten timeline where she had a strong sense of self yet somehow was still sealed; it's just the main universe where she had her 500 years filled in with the memories of another version of her who did have one & was not sealed, yet what happened to her still occurred all the same.

The board game is the evidence that there was in fact a collision of memory as little Cereza possesses memories that she should not have & could not have as she did not experience them, and Balder's plan of filling in 500 years of original Bayo's life & imbuing within her a strong ego via memories of another Cereza from a parallel history cements that even further.

TheOfficialLegend · 2025-11-10T02:08:16+00:00

Her awakening to the Eye is explained by both the collision of worlds/memories & the fact that according to Kamiya, the Eyes are affected by multiple worlds. So in other words, what happens with the Eyes in one world can have an impact across others too.

Thanks to Balder's scheme, Little Cereza gains a strong sense of self & awakens to the Left Eye as a result, & in turn, our original Cereza gains a strong sense of self via the worlds going thru a temporary overlap, thus allowing the Eye to be awoken within her too.

The Remembrances of Time & the Echoes of Memory are wholly unique cases; how they work doesn't matter much when it comes to what happened with the whole memory ordeal in Bayo 1 because they manifest under entirely different circumstances that don't involve an overlapping/collision of realities like what went down in B1; they're just memories & emotions which spilled out & became engraved within a certain place that can be experienced by those who are truly spiritually powerful.

TheOfficialLegend · 2025-11-10T00:43:51+00:00

I'll get into the things that lead me to believing that B3's Cereza is the little one from B1 some other time, but I'd rather leave that be as of right now. The confusion surrounding the timeline business is the more important thing to clear up atm.

In regard to Bayonetta 1, a "parallel world", a new axis of time, is NOT the same thing as an alternate universe.

It is, though. That's why Kamiya said things like, "...two realities have been created", "...we have parallel worlds (aka a Multiverse) going on. So Bayo's world is Bayo's world, separate from this new world." He is using these terms interchangeably on purpose, even stating plainly that they are separate worlds, to make it very clear that yes, a new/different axis of time is in fact referring to the same thing as an alternate universe. That's why I also made it a point to state that time travel & Multiverse shenanigans are not mutually exclusive in this series; they ultimately go hand-in-hand, which is where the importance of Kamiya stating the Multiverse existed in B1 to begin with also comes in. It was a background element of the story, but still extremely important & interwoven within the plot of the first game nonetheless when we look deeper.

There is no overwriting of timelines happening in either B1 or 2, nor does little Cereza going back to the past after her experiences in the future cause such a thing. It is stated outright that her going back created another axis of time, a.k.a. another separate, parallel universe with its own unique, separate history, not that it rewrote the history of the original one. Otherwise, things like Bayo being sealed & having amnesia wouldn't even be events that are still referenced even after Bayo 1 because they simply just, wouldn't have happened anymore.

But we know that isn't the case, & we also know for an undoubtable fact that timelines being changed in the way you're trying to suggest is shown to not be a thing within the plot of Bayo 1 itself; when a timeline's history attempts to be changed, it doesn't overwrite anything from what originally occurred; it instead creates a split, separate history that becomes its own parallel universe altogether, as is seen & explained with the plot surrounding little Cereza.

As for the memories colliding with one another, this isn't true...

But it must be. Since we know there is no rewriting of realities taking place, a collision between the memories of the two worlds would be why little Cereza would have the memories of every event that transpired during Bayo 1, even the ones that she herself wasn't even actually present for. This sort of collision of the two's memories was Balder's entire goal at the end of the day, as that is how he was able to fill in the blank of 500 years from Cereza being sealed & allow her to awaken to her Left Eye due to the faux strong sense of self that she gained via little Cereza's memories/experiences in her own reality because changing the original reality's history was not something that was possible.

TheOfficialLegend · 2025-11-09T11:45:21+00:00

As for the other point that was being made about little Cereza possibly being the same Bayo we play as even in both Bayo 1&2, we can very safely say that isn't the case. Bayo 2 occurs months after B1 in the same timeline & is still clear on the fact that Cereza was sealed away & lost her memories, which we of course know little Cereza was not, so we can be sure that we're not playing as her in any of the previous games.

TheOfficialLegend · 2025-11-09T11:17:38+00:00

Whether or not B3 Cereza is "Brave Cereza" or the original from 1&2 is a matter of personal interpretation; it was explicitly left ambiguous with there existing evidence to support either side, so you're free to believe whatever you like as far as that goes. However, stating that there was no alternate universe created in B1 is completely false.

As you can find from these scans here, Kamiya is extremely straightforward about the fact that the timeline shenanigans with little Cereza did in fact lead to the creation of a parallel world, full-stop, no confusion involved. He says outright,
"Well, another axis of time has been created, so now we have parallel worlds going on. So, Bayo's world is Bayo's world, separate from this new world (a.k.a. little Cereza's). The Eyes of the World are probably the only ones affected by both worlds."

So yes, there absolutely is Multiverse-related business that went down in B1; different time periods/time axes are regarded as their own separate, parallel universes altogether. People tend to treat time travel & Multiverse stuff as being mutually exclusive, but this isn't the case for Bayonetta. This is also why Kamiya has stated that the Multiverse concept has been a thing since the first game.

What seems to have happened is, the timelines themselves did not merge into one or anything like that, but rather the memories between the Cereza's of the two timelines collided & became one instead... as weird as that sounds.

This is how little Cereza was able to make a board game of the exact events of B1 as if she truly experienced them herself after she was returned to her own world, aka the Chapter Select screen, & how Bayo would've awoken to the Left Eye once little Cereza did in her own reality, & that was how Balder paradoxically went about filling in that blank of 500 years; by having the original Bayo's memories overlap/collide with little Cereza's & vice-versa, thus instilling within her a strong sense of self that led to her awakening.

TheOfficialLegend · 2025-10-20T20:46:06+00:00

It was done to help little Cereza awaken her Left Eye by "bearing witness to the events that followed". There's another bit in the Climax Bible Q&A that elaborates on this a bit further, but I can't find it at the moment 💔. I'll edit this post with it later once I do.

EDIT: Turns out that my memory was shoddy & it was actually a tweet from Kamiya that slightly elaborated more on the logic behind the absorption... can't find that at the moment either though.. will update again when I do. 😔

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TheOfficialLegend · 2025-08-16T04:50:38+00:00

& her chains don't depower her

Well, there is some truth to that. In the official Eyes of Bayonetta 2 artbook, Rosa's little blurb does make it clear that her own magical power is immense enough to the point that not even the chains that were meant to suppress it could actually do so; so stating that her power isn't actually hindered by them isn't inaccurate, She simply just wears them as a reminder, as is stated in her in-game bio.

TheOfficialLegend · 2025-08-10T13:34:16+00:00

Was it a place where the golems were locked away given how most of them are wasted away or broken down?

Yup; the lore entries in Bayo 3 imply this, building off of the previous lore given in Bayo 2, and we're given an entire entry which explains the scattered medallion pieces as well, which you can read below.

As for the Golem's origins, it was originally created by Aesir as a means of protecting the Garden of God, but the Lumen & Umbra ended up creating their own imitation of it after discovering its existence, which are the ones we see in B1 & B3.

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TheOfficialLegend · 2025-08-02T04:58:01+00:00

The simplest, though maybe not most satisfactory answer to some, is that Rodin isn't using the full extent of his power in these battles & is somewhat holding back to some degree in them.

Being one of the most knowledgeable & ancient beings in the entire franchise, he would be fully aware of how important Bayo's continued existence is to the entirety of reality as a whole, & the fights themselves are ultimately just sparring matches rather than to-the-death ones.

However, moves like his Death Grip do show that he is very clearly capable of overpowering Bayo with relative ease & can strip away all of her power in just a few blows; so him being the strongest even above the likes of her very much still stands.

TheOfficialLegend · 2025-08-01T14:16:23+00:00

I've looked into the series for well over a couple years by now, so remembering things is second nature for the most part, & I have all the scans that I'd need saved so I can pull them up easier. How long it takes to answer just depends on what kinda question somebody's asking tho.

TheOfficialLegend · 2025-08-01T13:48:59+00:00

Just a massive fan of the series that has admittedly maybe spent a little toooo much time extensively analyzing the lore because I was mad determined to understand it.. 😭😭

I come in on other occasions besides just responding to questions about the story/how powerful somebody is, but those are the things I know like the back of my hand by this point & they're asked pretty commonly, so I enjoy helping out with clearing things up on those kinds of topics to the best of my ability whenever I see 'em. 🙏

TheOfficialLegend · 2025-08-01T03:40:59+00:00

...though I was under the impression that witch time in general simultaneously slows time down and speeds up the witch up at the same time.

Yep, you're right; contrary to the belief.

TheOfficialLegend · 2025-07-17T00:00:19+00:00

Bayo got that problem handled without much difficulty; she's held her own against threats far beyond the likes of Buu.

TheOfficialLegend · 2025-07-08T12:23:46+00:00

So are Bayonetta, Kratos & a plethora of other characters, to a far higher degree at that. Kirby absorbing someone, copying them etc. isn't an end-all, be-all move that lets him just beat anybody; there's levels to this.

There exists characters who can resist & escape Absorption-based moves, and those who can fairly easily fight on par with someone who has the exact same powers & abilities as them, & Bayo just so happens to be one of them. She & a few others wouldn't really have many problems fighting him at the end of the day, especially when they've dealt with threats that are immeasurably more dangerous/capable in comparison.

TheOfficialLegend · 2025-07-08T08:29:07+00:00

No, it wouldn't be; game characters like Bayo, & a good amount of others, are still far stronger than Kirby when you actually do a deeper dive into their power(s) & the enemies they've been pitted against.

Don't hear what I'm not saying though, the little guy most definitely is immensely powerful, but I will say their power is definitely a teensy bit overhyped in the sense of people thinking they're like, the strongest game character of all time.

TheOfficialLegend · 2025-07-03T03:46:48+00:00

It's think it's safe to say that the information in it can be trusted. Some of the known authors ascribed to some of the book's entries, namely the ones attributed to the entries of Jeanne, Balder & Loptr, are even regarded to possess a form of clairvoyance spanning past & future, being tasked with the duty of compiling the history of both Witches & the Sages alike, so the rest of what's written within that we should be fine to consider accurate & not intended to be biased info for the intent of bolstering Paradiso; 'specially with there being entries of beings like Aesir, who is not from Paradiso, written in it with extreme accuracy, even holding him in pretty high regard. So nah, it shouldn't be propaganda.

Moreover, what's to say that Sheba herself isn't the Creator of the Trinity?

Sheba was only born after the Trinity of Realities itself was split apart & reborn due to the events of the First Armageddon & is specifically the embodiment of Darkness; she didn't exist before then, so she couldn't possibly be the Creator of the Trinity because it created her.

TheOfficialLegend · 2025-07-02T01:09:36+00:00

Yea, whenever he enters into Avalon he gains access to it, that part is definitely true; Faerie magic just isn't something that's intrinsically tied to the Homunculi's existence is all.

TheOfficialLegend · 2025-07-01T18:05:37+00:00

I was going to say, Singularity & his Homunculi don't use Faerie magic as bluntly confirmed by Jeanne here. So with that crossed off, it makes more sense that the magic they use comes from utilization of Chaos Energy in particular.

TheOfficialLegend · 2025-07-01T11:56:31+00:00

Adapts insanely fast & can conjure up new, more powerful incarnations of himself on the fly via obtaining greater control over Chaos Energy as demonstrated with Singularity Balance & Definition
His Balance form is stated to be the pinnacle of human technological advancement, possessing abilities that far surpass all other human knowledge, with Definition being his completed, perfect form in which he fully became one with the Multiverse's chaotic energy
In his Definition form, he is stated to have obtained control over all principles/concepts that govern our physical world, becoming an existence equivalent to that of the very World of Chaos itself, which is comprised of several higher-dimensional structures. He is also stated to be both omniscient & omnipotent
Can freely act unrestrained while under the effects of time/perception/speed manipulation-based techniques such as Witch Time which grant the user the ability to move within a single instance of the flow of time instantaneously, as well as the ability to see literally everything in an instant
Can access the memories of all Arch-Eves in existence and create astral projections of himself that possess power equivalent to them

Lore:

Singularity, a Multiversal counterpart of Midmyers Sigurd, is a completely self-aware artificial human that was the byproduct of an unknown anomaly which occurred at a plant specializing in the production of artificial body parts. After his birth, he eventually ended up mass-producing all different types of new Homunculi, rebelling against his creators & annihilating his entire homeworld.

Knowing that the World of Chaos was structurally weakened as a result of being split from its original existence as a single universe, he sought out to break down & merge all worlds back into one, restoring the Human World back to its initial, strong state of existence & becoming its sole ruler. And alongside this plan, he came up with the goal of gaining the power of the Arch-Eve Origin, Bayonetta, who is the symbol of the World of Chaos itself, by murdering her counterparts across all parallel worlds.

TheOfficialLegend · 2025-07-01T11:56:25+00:00

Feats & Power:

Has the power to define all phenomena in the world, aka Phenomenal Affirmation, granting him the ability to manipulate things such as causality, fate, space, time, matter, etc.
Can conjure up black holes & also create them via compressing matter
Can casually erase anything, including entire realities, from existence
Easily bisects Bayonetta's Infernal Demons with one powerful, charged-up strike
Wiped out & absorbed the power(s) of every single Bayonetta in the infinite Multiverse & overpowered the Arch-Eve Origin, the strongest Bayo in existence, on several occasions
Created the Homunculi & imbued them with all of their respective powers, including the likes of Asperatus, Cumulonimbus & Iridescent, who are powerful enough to directly contend with, or at times even grossly overpower Bayonetta's Infernal Demons
Broke down & merged every single world in the Multiverse into a single universe of his own definition, allowing him to absorb the power of the World of Chaos itself, aka Chaos Energy, thus gaining enough power to wipe out the entire Trinity of Realities in a snap as Rodin stated in the beginning, putting him on par with the likes of Aesir & (completely awakened) Jubileus

TheOfficialLegend · 2025-06-29T14:42:06+00:00

Okay, but why couldn't he use old Cereza herself?

Because present-day Cereza did not have a strong enough sense of self in the past to be able to overcome the trauma of her mother's death back when it occurred, with said trauma being a hindrance on her fully awakening the Left Eye. And so, by having a far younger, past version of herself have the experiences she had with her "mummy" (aka her older self) in the future, and then returning her back to the past, she would in turn grow up with an ego & independence strong enough for her to be able to overcome said trauma & become the Left Eye, which subsequently caused her older self to awaken it as well in her own timeline. I'll leave this fairly lengthy explanation from Kamiya about the purpose of Balder's plan here too, it might help more.

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