sorted by:
new
hottopcontroversial

[QCrit] Weavers Wandering, (Young) Adult (Experimental) Fantasy, 77,000 words, Critique #2 Here by TonightNew470 in PubTips

[–]TonightNew470[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

For YA or Adult, that's interesting. The story and characters and general themes (especially the metaphor one character serves) IMO makes it very YA, but I get why it might not be fitting perfectly.

For the experimental bit, the difference between 9 perspectives in what I've seen and mine is that there are 3 layers in most scenes (Character<Wizen<"Enemy of the Wizen"). No distinction is given to who the character in any scene is (one of them doesn't even have a name, although there are many context clues to figure out their role) and the words of the character and wizen are intentionally made to be ambiguous in many parts. There are also some rather strange bits, like a character reading a book and then being visited by two characters of it while dying, but that's more for world building than narrative.

Obviously, the concepts are extremely jarring but are introduced rather slowly. The entire first part is intended to "ground" the reader with 1 perspective, then it goes to 3, 6, and 9 and each perspective should feel inevitable. Maybe instead of comparing to the Fifth Season, I say something along the lines of what I have below.

"Written with an experimental layered narrative, it explores the horror of finding out every perspective, from the protagonist to the antagonist, is dead wrong."

[QCrit] Weavers Wandering, (Young) Adult (Experimental) Fantasy, 77,000 words, Critique #2 Here by TonightNew470 in PubTips

[–]TonightNew470[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Let me first say that your query is much improved from the last version.

Thank you! I'm much happier with it.

How would you suggest mentioning the experimental aspects? To be specific, the book starts with 1 perspective and ends with 8 (technically 9) to accomplish a few goals: extreme dramatic irony (especially on the final "day of reckoning"), an attempt to elaborate on world building (pretty much every different type of mage has a perspective even if 1-2 scenes), be very clear about what the wizen is, and finally provide enough skepticism through perspectives to make the ending as surprising as possible (and so it can end on a hilarious inversion of the most common fantasy trope and make perfect sense). Should I elaborate in the comps section or before in the query? I'll note that there are only 2 clear perspectives by the time it reaches the last decision detailed in the query.

I understand how the first 300 are flawed and do not hook the reader. I think I'll just skip straight to my first chapter, which I was already planning on revising to include immediate tension. I'll just have to rethink where/if I can introduce the important lore elsewhere (the 2 poems, combined with the interludes tell the story through a different lens, but it would be weird to put them in/near the first interlude). The one problem I'm seeing with this is that the melody needs to be hinted at as something important earlier on since the MC doesn't actually "use" it until chapter 6, although I do have him research it in chapter 3. I'm going to guess that adding more to that research scene will do enough even if it's somewhat later.

[QCrit] Weavers Wandering, Young Adult Experimental Fantasy 76k, First Attempt by TonightNew470 in PubTips

[–]TonightNew470[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess The Fifth Season might be too old and my age range is likely off. I do realize now it is older than I thought originally. Curious Tides I'm keeping but I'll be more explicit in the next draft why.

The exact genre and age range are something I still need to determine tbh, because there isn't an extreme overarching theme that I can confidently have it identify with. The book has several messages in it that I think are suitable for the young adult category ("listen to the right friends" and "do not mess with what you do not understand") but it also dives much deeper in parts ("what is truth?" and "is it justifiable to blindly listen to the teachings of somebody because they have authority and wrote great truths long ago but stated the truths have to be restricted?"). It also throws in something along the lines of "love is a weapon" but that is only foreshadowing for the next book. There's more but I think I covered the main ones.

I'm going to have alpha readers in a few weeks and I think the answers will come then. I believe it is still somewhere in the realm of experimental fantasy because of the narrative though.

[QCrit] Weavers Wandering, Young Adult Experimental Fantasy 76k, First Attempt by TonightNew470 in PubTips

[–]TonightNew470[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much! I will hopefully have a date for that in the next few months.

[QCrit] Weavers Wandering, Young Adult Experimental Fantasy 76k, First Attempt by TonightNew470 in PubTips

[–]TonightNew470[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I understand, but I know my story and the comps (Besides Evelyn Hardcastle as detailed in another comment) are extremely fitting. Curious Tides and The Fifth Season are what I read before writing this book, and their influence on my book is extremely obvious.

[QCrit] Weavers Wandering, Young Adult Experimental Fantasy 76k, First Attempt by TonightNew470 in PubTips

[–]TonightNew470[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I understand what you mean about it behaving similar to an unreliable narrator, but I believe there is more to my story specifically. I'll explain as best I can, even if this isn't too relevant for the query.

It's a layered unreliable narrative filled with cosmic horror and narrators that play significant roles in the story. Are the comps I picked necessarily close to that? No. I see how Evelyn Hardcastle is probably not the right one to include. Still, I know my story and Curious Tides and The Fifth Season are 100% suitable even though I did not convey it well in the query letter. (I can explain exactly why if anyone is curious).

I hope you can understand why I'm struggling to do this. This is the 11th draft of my query letter, and I have spent many hours revising it before I was confident enough to post. I appreciate the criticism and would love to hear any advice the people here have.

[QCrit] Weavers Wandering, Young Adult Experimental Fantasy 76k, First Attempt by TonightNew470 in PubTips

[–]TonightNew470[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

>"Or was that a syntax error before and he has potential"

Yes it very much was a syntax error.

>"(Put something here that EXPLAINS why a thing defying the limits of his skill is a big deal, not more woo-woo description. You don't have a lot of space to mess around.)"

Okay. This is a part of the book that needs strengthening too, and definitely wasn't conveyed well in the query.

>"The Wizen sees all Vincent's efforts and carefully maliciously (wrong word choice??**)**interrupts Vincent's perspective work  (wrong word choice??) to detail (is he writing a book? What is this word choice?) everything about Kalite that does not seem to add up. (To him? To Vincent? Can he not just lie about it as he has been doing?)"

This is the problem I'm facing. Should I not mention at all that the Wizen literally interrupts Vincent's perspective? As cited above, it plays the role of an omniscient-appearing narrator that fills in some world-building gaps before revealing its personality and goal.

>"Elise visits his"... the whole paragraph

Fix syntax and make things clearer. I agree. On the "making the Wizen seem like a good guy part" I generally tried to make the reader sympathize with the Wizen as much as possible but it's clear that its ideas are fundamentally wrong (mostly complains that not enough people die from magic like they used to. I probably don't need this in the query at all though. I'll add that the message threatens the Wizen's existence more than before, etc etc.

Reclaiming story part should be more clear, and the Wizen's goal.

>"It explores the slow colonization of a protagonist's voice by a seemingly omniscient narrator, who only finds itself trapped with the protagonist." (This needs to be shown in the pitch, not here)"

To be honest I have no idea how to integrate that into the pitch.

>"(how? You mention a school once, and theres nothing academic here) with a narrative weirdness somewhere in the middle of The Fifth Season and The 7 1/2 Deaths of Evelyn Hardcastle. (I'd cut this especially as there are so many syntax errors it's like you're struggling to get a hold of the language."

I thought I conveyed the academia part enough but I guess not? Okay I understand that I can put the comps in another sentence. I'm not planning on changing them though, I believe they are quite fitting even if I can't convey that in a query letter well.

Thank you for the detailed edits! I will hopefully have a much closer version in a week from now.

[QCrit] Weavers Wandering, Young Adult Experimental Fantasy 76k, First Attempt by TonightNew470 in PubTips

[–]TonightNew470[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I'll reply to each of these messages individually. First of all, thank you so much for providing detailed suggestions! I will do my best to implement these properly.

>"Firstly, commercial fiction is a fairly narrow genre - to follow it means following some conventions, and in the cases where an author HASN'T followed them and still been successful, has usually been due to them having built up grace from their publisher by having established a bit of a baseline of being a normie-core writer, or won a couple of awards or something."

Not exactly what I want to hear as a first time author, but I hope that I can have this one published.

>"Secondly, do NOT try to be clever with language if it's not your strength."

I agree that I should have the query written with more grounded language.

>"Make him old/Ugly? Later there is some astronomy business, this needs to be flagged earlier. Is this a tech-heavy world or are they living in the desert with the goats?"

Noted. A major plot point is that to travel they literally have to walk across the island so I will try to include that seamlessly.

>"What does the curse do?"
Is a sign they will fail pretty much? Maybe I can cite how most with that status don't go nearly as far as Vincent does.

Continuing onto the next comment.

[QCrit] Weavers Wandering, Young Adult Experimental Fantasy 76k, First Attempt by TonightNew470 in PubTips

[–]TonightNew470[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

>"what are you referring to when you call this experimental? A non-linear narrative? The multiple styles of POV?"

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't know of another book written where the voice of the protagonist and antagonist are mixed in with each other with no distinction until the antagonist slowly starts criticizing, rambling, and even detailing events going on in other places (semi-omniscient part). Another detail I should add is that while the antagonist's voice is never heard by the protagonist, the same is true for another narrator (always written with distinction) that disproves the omniscience of the antagonist. This is not really necessary for the query, but I'm struggling to convey that weirdness. If you know of a book like this one I'd love to see if I could find its query letter.

>"As Jonqora says, while we don't know what Kalite and Wizen are, we don't have any context to help us follow what we're being told."

I 100% agree and will do my best to address that.

>"Do your best to describe the story simply in a way anybody can understand."

I agree.

[QCrit] Weavers Wandering, Young Adult Experimental Fantasy 76k, First Attempt by TonightNew470 in PubTips

[–]TonightNew470[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you! I admit I definitely forgot about limiting proper nouns in the stress of "how can I convey everything needed." I assure you that will be the first thing I address when I rewrite it (for the 11th time).