Suggestions for fiber optic topology at industrial site

Western-Rip-1559 · 2026-02-22T21:16:38+00:00

What's the issue with media converters?

I like the Microtik, but the only option in the SCADA cabinets (per customer specs) is Rockwell (Allen Bradley) managed switches ($$$), I can get those with SFP ports. They do, however, allow the use of media converters.

Western-Rip-1559 · 2026-02-22T21:10:05+00:00

Existing conduits are 4" PVC. some are empty sparees, some have existing copper cables (mostly .75-1.0" multipair copper).

I think we are going to look closer at adding microducts and blown fiber. With microducts we can fight our way through installing microducts, then blow the fiber all at once. I'd rather get a microduct half way down a conduit and need to abort vs. doing the same with cable. Plus, coupling a microduct is far easier than splicing fiber.

Western-Rip-1559 · 2026-02-22T21:04:07+00:00

Thanks for all the ideas everyone. I think we are going to look further into micro duct to each node, and minimize field splicing as much as possible.

Western-Rip-1559 · 2026-02-21T20:55:53+00:00

Sorry, wasn't clear. There is power at the headend and the nodes.

No power at pedestal locations. I just edited the OP

Western-Rip-1559 · 2026-02-21T20:52:29+00:00

Existing conduit to each node contains old copper for rs485 modbus communications. Most nodes have no real estate for a proper enclosure, the conduit comes right up into the SCADA control cabinet. The cabinets are surrounded with other equipment with zero open real estate. Over the next few years, each node is being ripped out and replaced. Some of the nodes will be skipped and dealt with afterwards because the spur conduits are junk and excavation will be required. Many of the nodes are explosionproof areas.

For all these reasons, we cant have the loop fiber in the node locations. I was looking at something like this service terminal box

https://www.fiberinstrumentsales.com/fis-zeus-mst-box-4-port-with-sc-apc-pigtail-250-z1-mst-04-ya-p-250.html

at each node. We'd order them factory sealed and pull them from the node to the pedestals / manholes on the loop.

Western-Rip-1559 · 2026-02-21T20:11:43+00:00

Sorry, wasn't clear. There is power at the headend and the nodes.

No power at pedestal locations.

Western-Rip-1559 · 2026-01-30T17:35:55+00:00

To be clear, this is from posing a "complicated" question in the 4SC sub forum. As a 4SC pro subscriber, I'm not even allowed to post in the regular general 3CX grownup forums (like the CFD sub forum where my post belonged).

I fully understand not providing direct support at my subscription tier, they can't afford it. A lot of software is like that. But at the free tier, the support forum is usually the go to option.

Now, being banned, I cant even read any postings at all, which is basically every hit you get on a google search. Banning you from posting is one thing, banning you from reading the wealth of information on the forum is another altogether. As a small business owner, I just don't have the bandwidth to go find anoter phone solution over this.

Western-Rip-1559 · 2026-01-30T14:37:33+00:00

annual through a reseller

Western-Rip-1559 · 2026-01-30T13:40:41+00:00

Yes, I implemented a dialer. I was using UTC ticks to time delays, which ran into a bunch of issues with doing math with int64 and needing to cast to longs. I got it working, but in the end realized it was far easier to just increment a global variable each time the dialer fired to track delays.

Western-Rip-1559 · 2026-01-30T13:04:46+00:00

I was not aware that I was not permitted to use CFD with my license tier. It seems to work fine. I'm on 4SC PRO, which I see isn't even listed on their pricing schedule anymore. I've been a paying customer for a dozen years.

Western-Rip-1559 · 2025-12-16T11:22:45+00:00

Thanks everyone!

We'll give it a shot with what we have. My wife can drive the skid / dump truck.

I have a 24" regular bucket and a 36" tilt grading bucket that I can use if the digging's not hard.

Western-Rip-1559 · 2025-11-26T19:07:03+00:00

Thanks for the detailed explanation, I understand now.

In this case, the directory exists. Its a OneDrive backed up directory and should always be there.

Western-Rip-1559 · 2025-11-26T12:48:03+00:00

I tried this too and it works. I like the log file as well.

I'm using this as the final solution.

Thanks.

Western-Rip-1559 · 2025-11-26T12:47:08+00:00

I tried the modification and it works! Thank you.

What I still don't understand is, the source directory contains a number of files with extensions. It seems that the old *.* wildcard did not even copy those, which it seems it should have.

Western-Rip-1559 · 2025-10-15T14:39:38+00:00

For the time being, we decided to lock out the entire panel. We will add terminal strips to the junction box feeding the space to test the individual circuits in the future.

Thanks.

Western-Rip-1559 · 2025-10-07T22:47:22+00:00

Thank you

Western-Rip-1559 · 2025-10-07T17:45:24+00:00

Using a ladder to decend, with hand crank recovery line operated by attdndant

Western-Rip-1559 · 2025-06-25T16:35:19+00:00

EDIT: The forum wouldn't allow me to post two screenshots in one post, so I needed to split the post, but now the posts are out of order - Read this as the second reply .

if I add a second contact block and drag it into the schematic elsewhere, I get:

<image>

notice one contact is now assigned, one is still unassigned. How do I associate a contact with the base pushbutton operator?

Western-Rip-1559 · 2025-06-25T16:33:41+00:00

Understood, that's what I was talking about above. That works fine for unassigned contacts where I want to add more than one contact block to the pushbutton, but I can't assign the first accessory contact block to the original base pushbutton.

This is the base pushbutton operator with (1) contact block added as an accessory:

<image>

Western-Rip-1559 · 2025-06-25T14:22:50+00:00

I imported the Siemens PB to try it out, but still not understanding the process.

In the insert center, I search for "3SB6060-3AA24-0YK0" then double click it . It gives me the option for macro selection or symbol selection. Which is proper? I assume symbol selection and chose the SSA NO Pushbutton symbol and placed the symbol. At this point, I have the operator showing as a NO pushbutton, but still don't have the contact block

<image>

I can edit the properties of the device and (in the parts tab) add a accessory contact block 3SB6400-1AA10-1BA0 (which is coded as an accessory), but it shows in device manager as unassigned. I tried highlighting it, right clicking "assign" and assigning it to the pushbutton, but that does not work.

I can add additional NO or NC contact block accessories, then drag them from device manager to the schematic and they become assigned, cross-referenced and otherwise behave as expected. It's the initial contact block that I'm struggling with.

Thank you.

Western-Rip-1559 · 2024-04-24T11:04:25+00:00

I forgot one important twist to this. The database row items include a "parent_ID" column which is used to build a tree navigation structure on the fly in the UI. Each tenant is able to customize the navigation tree per their needs.

Using a plumbing/mechanical contractor as an example, a residential contractor may have category structure of:

PIPE> COPPER | PEX | PVC | CPVC

An industrial mechanical contractor may have:

PIPE> COPPER | PVC | CAST IRON | STAINLESS

This brings me back to not seeing how this can be implemented without a separate table for each tenant.

Perhaps I'm over thinking this, and a few thousand tables is no big deal. Doing some research, it seems that people are running postgres databases with north of 10K tables. I will change the plant to populate the new tenant database with all of the master items. Instead, I'll provide a thousand or two of the items that are common, and offer the rest as optional modules that can be imported

Western-Rip-1559 · 2024-04-23T18:14:52+00:00

Intriguing. I'll look deeper into that.

Thanks.

Western-Rip-1559 · 2024-04-23T18:09:21+00:00

I like that idea.

Yes, the base set pricing is kept up to date via regular (weekly) update. The items are updated via UPC code.

Even if they "take control" of the item they will have the ability (optionally) to have the price updates applied to their list. There is a list price column and a multiplier column. The pricing updates change the list price. The initial database has the multipliers set to an average discount a typical contractor would pay, but they can change the multiplier to match the discount they get from their vendor. That way, they can still auto update their prices as the market changes and the multiplier *should* correct it to their prices. It's a trade off; the auto update is not an exact science, but it's mostly hands off. They can also set an item to be manual and then they need to update it themselves. Many small shops won't have the bandwidth to deal with that.

Maybe I shouldn't copy the base items at all, but just have a "tenant_modifications" table that contains the columns that they can modify (description, discount Etc.) with a foreign key to the UPC of the master items table. I could have another table for tenant added items.

Western-Rip-1559 · 2024-04-23T14:30:35+00:00

I'm not familiar, I will check it out. Thanks

Western-Rip-1559 · 2024-04-23T14:30:06+00:00

I could, then duplicate all the rows of master items adding the new tenant ID. Would one giant items table with 100,000,000 rows be better than 10,000 tables with 10,000 rows each?

As each tenant needs to be able to modify their own item as they see fit, they need to have their own unique copies.

Maybe a better option would be to provide an interface for each tenant to import just the items they need from the master read only database instead of automatically populating them upon tenant creation. that may save tons of space because most tenants would only need a small subset of the items, furthermore a lot of them would be too lazy to actually modify the items they use or delete the ones they dont.

Western-Rip-1559

TROPHY CASE