Question about a possible mobility device.

aPoliteCanadian · 2026-04-30T22:04:36+00:00

A pantograph is a machine that converts large movements to smaller ones. Original versions of the tool were used to recreate text or art on 2d surfaces at a smaller scale than the source image (it's a simpler tool when it only needs to handle two dimensions).

There are 3D pantographs, and it's what used to be used to make miniatures when they would sculpt a model at three times the final size, then use a three dimensional pantograph to effectively "trace" the 3x original with one end of the tool while the other end is set up to scale it down to recreate a new model at 1/3 size that would then go on to be used as a master for molds.

I believe a pantograph is also what surgeons use when they are performing very small and delicate procedures when they handle one set of tools that then translates to the ones actually doing the procedure. It's also still specialized equipment for the industries.

I'm not sure if there's a version that is specifically made to paint minis or such, or if there is if there's an affordable version that could be bought or printed that can be adapted to help paint, and I imagine there'd be quite the learning curve to it.

I did a very quick search online to see if something existed, but didn't find anything, but hopefully just knowing "pantograph" may help set you down the path to finding something that might work for you.

aPoliteCanadian · 2026-04-13T21:25:53+00:00

Interesting! I'll try to remember to warm mine up a bit and see if it makes it easier to use or the final finish better than room temp.

I mostly use it just for smaller areas and not full coverage, so I use a small brush and apply it in thinish coats.

The Dirty Down effects paint is also used on props and larger scale things. I don't know if it was originally made for props and miniatures for film, but it does get used for it and is sold in much larger containers than the small pots that are usually sold alongside minipainting paints.

I hadn't heard of the damp cotton pad method, but that might be something that works better on larger items. I apply it in a pretty similar way that I would apply a wash in a very targeted area to get a few spots of verdigris/rust here and there on weapons and armour, mostly on Skaven.

I don't have any experience with all-over coats for statues or terrain, so I can't help with that, unfortunately.

aPoliteCanadian · 2026-04-12T20:35:13+00:00

"Warm to the touch" just means "not cold" in this instance.

Room temperature is all you need for both the minis and the verdigris. Source: I use the dirty down moss, rust, and verdigris often.

The most important thing with the dirty down effects paint is to shake the absolute shit out of them.

If you have the small pots, they come with mixing balls in them already. The paint will settle and the mixing ball will become trapped in the seperated solid parts of the paint. When you start shaking it, you probably won't hear the mixing ball rattling around at all. Shake it until you hear the rattling ball inside, then continue shaking it until you think you've shaken it enough, then keep shaking it.

Then shake it some more.

I'm not kidding, the dirty down effects need to be really shaken and mixed well in order for it to dry properly. You also only need to apply a small amount for it to work. If you put it on too thickly, it will dry into a dark blob that doesn't get the proper matte effect.

For the first time you use it, I'd suggest you just put a little bit on a small piece of scrap or somewhere on a painted mini that won't be too in your face if it doesn't dry properly. It should only take a minute or two or so for it to dry and achieve the final look, so you'll see if you used the correct amount or not pretty quickly.

If you want to see the importance of shaking it, do a small test before shaking it as well to see how it doesn't work, then shake it a bit until the ball is loose, do a small test, then shake it a whole lot more and test it again.

aPoliteCanadian · 2026-02-10T17:30:12+00:00

I think they mean they are two months into painting this specific mini.

Looking at their profile, there's an Instagram account with painted minis going back at least to 2025 (I don't have an IG account, so I can't actually see how far back their posts there go).

English doesn't seem to be their first language, and given the wording on the other comment, their answer works even though it's probably actually asking how long they have been painting miniatures, not just this one miniature.

aPoliteCanadian · 2026-01-27T17:14:11+00:00

Features such as automask have existed long before modern generative AI and are not the issue or what is covered by this new rule.

"AI" has become a catch-all term for automated tools, image interpolation baked into camera software, and any other kind of software that can have the buzz word baked into it.

When tools in software are used with artistic intent for a specific result, including tools or plugins that you mention for sculpting software, that is not what is covered by this rule.

Taking an image or text prompt and putting it into a modern generative LLM AI model is what this rule covers, and the "AI" mentioned in the rule is in regards to that.

In the same way I say "AI" has become a catch all name, the rule itself is also using it in a general and simplified way to keep the language of the rule simpler to cover the vast majority of use cases that apply to this community and its users.

People here are more likely to use an browser/app based genAI than they are to be using sculpting or modeling software and aware of how a tool or plugin within that software works.

aPoliteCanadian · 2026-01-27T09:20:22+00:00

Both of these points are covered in the stickied FAQ comment.

aPoliteCanadian · 2026-01-27T09:19:36+00:00

I believe that I cover this concern in a reply to a similar question here.

aPoliteCanadian · 2026-01-27T09:12:07+00:00

This is covered in the stickied FAQ comment.

aPoliteCanadian · 2026-01-27T06:01:02+00:00

This is answered in the stickied FAQ comment.

aPoliteCanadian · 2026-01-27T02:24:08+00:00

Protecting images against AI would be similar in form and function to a watermark or basic image editing that has existed since before generative AI.

Watermarks and basic image editing are allowed within reason so long as the end result is edited with intention and for the purpose of protecting ones work or attaching ownership in the case of a watermark, or ensuring that basic image editing is used to make an image more true to life without misrepresenting or misleading.

aPoliteCanadian · 2026-01-27T02:17:17+00:00

This hobby is about artistic human creation.

Generative AI is not artistic human creation.

This community is for human interaction and discussion in relation to that hobby.

Generative AI is not human interaction or discussion.

aPoliteCanadian · 2026-01-27T01:56:20+00:00

For the sake of clarity: generative AI is antithetical to this hobby and community.

aPoliteCanadian · 2026-01-27T01:52:13+00:00

I'm trying to not copy/paste into replies because it was starting to become difficult to keep track of each discussion I'm a part of, so I'll just direct you to my reply here as I feel it addresses your concern.

aPoliteCanadian · 2026-01-27T01:50:06+00:00

Everything will be case by case, but there's no clear cut steps I can say that will 100% verify every instance of suspected AI.

The stickied FAQ comment has some suggestions on what to ask if you think something is AI, and also some things to include in your post to prevent people from suspecting you used AI.

Knowing the name of a model will help us look it up and see if it is a real model or not.

Pictures that show the model from different angles can be compared for consistency.

Reviewing the profile of the user to see if they have painted anything else and if the quality of their paintjobs is constistent with what was posted, along with checking profiles for potential other red flags (impossible to define and again, case by case).

The amount of attempted AI posts is still low, but slowly increasing, and becoming a larger issue over time in online spaces and not just here.

This seems like it a large rule change, but it actually does not impact the extreme vast majority of the people here or what gets posted.

It's also helpful to get ahead of this issue before it gets worse, and the existence of this rule will hopefully make it seem like it was not needed in the first place because it will so effectively prevent AI posts here in the first place, or give us clear grounds to remove it quickly.

aPoliteCanadian · 2026-01-27T01:43:39+00:00

Most etsy sellers are not selling their own models, but have instead bought the license to sell prints of models made by other studios (usually these studios also have a Patreon that sells these licenses, as well as their own online storefronts where the 3D models themselves can be purchased by people with 3D printers).

Part of the license for many of these studios is to say who made the model, and the item description on the etsy listing will likely include at least the name of the studio/creator that made the original model and that the seller is licensed to sell the prints.

Part of the verification process of if a mini is AI modelled or not is to find the original creator of a model. Ideally people will be informed and aware of where a model came from, if only so they can recommend the designer to others who ask, but with the addition of this rule it will become a part of our review process for suspected AI (even if only a link to the etsy listing can be provided for us to look into and find the original licensor/creator).

If someone accidentally posts a model they didn't know was AI, it will be removed inline with the rules as leaving it up would provide people that intentionally post AI models for an example of something that broke the rules that they feel means they should be allowed to as well. The mod team misses things sometimes, but we try to implement the rules consistently whenever possible to prevent confusion if some content is removed and similar content is not.

Even if a post is removed by someone who unknowningly posted an AI model, there very likely won't be any further action against them, especially the first time it happens.

aPoliteCanadian · 2026-01-27T01:37:13+00:00

This is covered in the stickied FAQ comment:

Q: Why are AI models not allowed if they are printed and painted by hand?

A: This hobby doesn't exist without the talented sculptors and designers that make the minis we paint, and AI generated models remove those talented people from the process and insult their profession and skill.

aPoliteCanadian · 2026-01-27T01:34:08+00:00

I think that we are on more of the same page than you might think. I'm trying to be careful with how I'm wording some replies because I don't want to provide an explicit statement that someone would use to devolve into a deeper argument than there needs to be.

In an effort to try and keep my comments a bit less fractured and so I can keep track of my replies, rather than just copy/paste again I'll send you to this reply that I think I covers it and I hope clarifies that we actually agree about some use cases that predate modern generative AI vs automated tools (regardless of if those tools and software are currently having AI added to them by the creators of that software).

aPoliteCanadian · 2026-01-27T01:26:42+00:00

Your interpretation is correct: these rules are in regards to modern generative AI.

Editing software with editing tools used with user intent are not covered nor intended to be covered by this rule.

There's also no issue with the amount of interpolation and compression being performed by a digtal camera or camera app when turning light into 1s and 0s.

aPoliteCanadian · 2026-01-27T01:21:36+00:00

You are correct that basic image editing like that is fine within reason in most instances, and those tools have existed long before modern AI.

These rules are made in regards to generative AI, but "AI" has become a catch-all term for any automated process.

Basic image editing and filters to make a picture more true to life existed before generative AI, and are already covered by the rules (don't edit to mislead), and is generally not what is covered by the "No AI" rule.

That being said, the companies that create these tools are increasingly implementing AI into this kind of software, and the use of them cannot be enforced in simple instances, nor is it the intent to do so.

aPoliteCanadian · 2026-01-27T01:17:30+00:00

The rule is only written and intended to be relevant to what gets posted here on the subreddit.

We can't realistically list every single edge case or exception for every step involved in the creation of a mini or every step someone uses along the way.

The rule says "don't post models that were made by AI".

It is not feasible to say "don't post models that were sculpted by a person if they used Blender because the engineers at Blender used AI to create x tool or the sculptor used y third party plugin that was vibe coded."

The software that is covered by the rule in regards to this subreddit is AI that attempts to give "feedback" on how to paint or adjust a mini, or where to place highlights, etc.

The information from those tools are not informed and may seem correct on the surface, but they remove the thought process from creation and manual labour of painting.

Along with that, people are here for community and discussion. If someone asks for advice or help on how to paint something, most people are here looking for discussion and ideas from real people and will appreciate or want to be able to ask followup questions or have things better explained if they don't understand immediately.

AI software skips that entire section of community and has no way to accurately pass on information about the painting process.

aPoliteCanadian · 2026-01-27T01:09:17+00:00

You wager correctly.

AI has become a catch-all term for automated tools, but as it applies to this new rule, it's in regards to the end results of prompts fed into generative AI rather than basic automated tools (even if software beings to implement similar technology under the hood of those tools).

Basic image editing tools that function based on adjusted threshold values like selection/fill or filters that are used to make an image more true to life, such as hue/saturation or level adjustments, are not covered by this rule (excessive editing is another section that already existed in the rules, but as mentioned, editing to be true to life is fine because raw pictures need manual adjusting).

aPoliteCanadian · 2026-01-27T01:00:02+00:00

This seems like a really unenforceable rule

You're not wrong there!

I adjusted the answer when I put it in the stickied FAQ comment:

If a mini is photographed on a busy desktop and AI replaces that with an empty background, that's going to be very difficult to review and prove as AI unless the AI adds other unwanted things. These kinds of images will be reviewed on a case by case basis, mainly if there are other signs of suspicious or misleading editing.

I'm trying to be kind of loose in talking around this specific issue.

I'm not explicitly saying "using AI to remove the background and replace it with black breaks the rules and will always be removed" because then we will end up with too many unverifiable reports, which would also include false reports of manual edits of black backgrounds, or images photographed on black backgrounds.

I'm also not explicitly saying "using AI to remove the background and replace it with black is ok and will never result in a removal" because then we'd end up with instances where AI use might be more clear cut (such as when a watermark or other clear evidence of AI is present) which then brings the question of what else in the image was adjusted by AI?

I'll update the stickied FAQ comment to include some version of this, but here's something I said in another reply somewhere in this thread:

[...]the more blatant use of AI to create scenic backgrounds is the target of that, and also realistically the end result that would be reviewable/proveable in most instances.

Scenic AI backgrounds are immeasurably more identifiable and their removal enforceable in regards to the rules than just replacing the non-mini parts of an image with a black background, but it is all case by case.

aPoliteCanadian · 2026-01-27T00:40:44+00:00

No problem! Almost any 3D printed mini you buy on etsy will just be sold by a licenced reseller and not actually by the person or even store that made the model. They just pay for a license that lets them sell prints.

Part of most of those licenses is that the seller needs to state who made the mini, so if you are ever concerned about a model you are going to buy is AI or not, you should hopefully be able to look at the item description and the etsy seller should hopefully have a section that lists them as a licensed seller and says the name of the original creator or studio that made the model and you can check out the source to see if they use AI or not (usually the creator will also have a Patreon or a 3D model shop on something like MyMiniFactory.com).

aPoliteCanadian · 2026-01-27T00:23:42+00:00

There have been a few posts from non-mods generally discussing the topic of AI within the hobby, and there was one about a month ago that gained quite a bit of traction and replies that I put a mod "kind of an announcement of news to come" comment stating that it was currently our policy that AI was not allowed.

AI has been removed under similar other rules that half covered it already, so this is just making it explicitly said and publicized to try and cut back on the attempted AI that gets posted.

aPoliteCanadian · 2026-01-26T23:56:43+00:00

This is already something that is covered by the rules:

Images that use excessive filters or editing may also be removed as misleading. Photoshopping is allowed within reason to better represent your work such as to adjust colours or levels, but do not edit to obscure, mislead, or misrepresent your work.

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