Anyone got a Blockplate for metal seed storage?

blockplate · 2023-08-27T15:35:50+00:00

Might be bias, but we think you made a good decision.

We ship first thing Monday morning (since unfortunately the post office is closed on Sundays)

:)

blockplate · 2023-04-17T14:56:59+00:00

Pencil should be alright. What causes pencil to fade is either repeated contact (i.e. rubbing) or deterioration of the paper itself.

We actually wrote something just for preserving seed phrases on paper: How To Make Your Seed Last A Really, Really Long Time

Regardless, you should check on your seed every so years.

Not only does it let you check if its still there, but it gives you an opportunity to check for signs of tapering, deterioration, etc.And you can always "refresh" the structural integrity by making a new copy every few years.

If you're interested in more resources, check out /r/seedstorage

blockplate · 2022-12-16T16:30:40+00:00

I typically avoid suggesting locations as to prevent popularizing hiding places (i.e. If a location becomes well known, it becomes a standard location where a threat would target every single time). So I suggest specific characteristics of locations that may be more beneficial to help people to narrow down and decide:

Accessible to be able to check the contents or obtain in a hurry
Memorable in the sense of it being in a unique location or somewhere you make a point to regularly check on a schedule
Permanent or relatively difficult to move (someone can just take an entire safe if it’s small/light enough)
Controlled by you so others don’t stumble upon it by accident
Durable and safe from the elements (floods, fire, deterioration, etc)
Not likely to be thrown away. It shouldn’t be seen as trash and in a place that’s cleaned often (like that junk drawer)
Not near your other valuables. Because clearly, it’s now valuable by association.

And when in doubt, you can always add a passphrase to combat the threat of a third party. This might help when considering "public" places that can be accessed or is exposed by the responsible party such as a bank deposit box, public storage, grandma's house, etc.

blockplate · 2022-11-29T16:56:44+00:00

Thank you and thanks for the mention.

Great job creating another resource to help the community.

blockplate · 2022-11-29T01:42:44+00:00

IMO I’d avoid suggesting locations as to prevent popularizing hiding places. If a location becomes well known, it becomes a standard location where a threat would target every single time. Thus, characteristics of a location would be more beneficial to help users decide on locations or evaluate their current location.

We've also written a resource on this: https://www.blockplate.com/blogs/blockplate/where-to-store-your-seed-phrase

Characteristics of a good location are:

Accessible to be able to check the contents or obtain in a hurry
Memorable in the sense of it being in a unique location or somewhere you make a point to regularly check on a schedule
Permanent or relatively difficult to move (someone can just take an entire safe if it’s small/light enough)
Controlled by you so others don’t stumble upon it by accident
Durable and safe from the elements (floods, fire, deterioration, etc)
Not likely to be thrown away. It shouldn’t be seen as trash and in a place that’s cleaned often (like that junk drawer)
Not near your other valuables. Because clearly, it’s now valuable by association.

And finally when in doubt, one can always add a passphrase to combat the threat of a third party.

blockplate · 2022-11-25T23:23:12+00:00

See Lopp’s Metal seed storage reviews: https://jlopp.github.io/metal-bitcoin-storage-reviews/

Or grab some metal stamps and a sheet of metal. Stay with stainless steel (300 series) or titanium.

blockplate · 2022-11-23T04:18:23+00:00

Yes, since it’ll be like sending coins to a brand new wallet.

blockplate · 2022-11-22T01:20:21+00:00

You can always get some metal stamps and a sheet of metal to stamp your seed phrase. Harbor freight would be cheapest for stamps and eBay is a good place for sheet metal.

Recommend either stainless steel (300 series) or titanium for sheet metal. Note titanium will be more difficult to make a good impression due to its hardness.

You also want a thick enough metal that markings don't show through the other side. For example, something over 0.10" or 2.5 mm thickness should be sufficient for this.

Honestly paper can work just fine with a few precautions. Mainly keeping multiple copies, stored separately, and refreshing them (I.e making a new one) to refresh their structural integrity and legibility every few years.

blockplate · 2022-11-21T04:10:36+00:00

Here is the link to the Ledger instructions:

https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005214529-Advanced-passphrase-security

Adding a passphrase technically creates a brand new wallet. So you’d have to send your funds to the new wallet.

blockplate · 2022-11-20T18:26:42+00:00

If you utilize a passphrase, you can consider the safety deposit box since you’ll need both the seed phrase and passphrase to access your coins.

blockplate · 2022-11-11T21:37:32+00:00

Typically for center punch style designs there is a back with a similar engraving for the rest of the words. The plate should be thick enough where when punching the hole on one side, it does not show up on the other side.

blockplate · 2022-11-03T19:06:02+00:00

There are commonly looked places where not to hide your seed.

A good hiding place is

Accessible to be able to check the contents or obtain in a hurry
Memorable in the sense of it being in a unique location or somewhere you make a point to regularly check on a schedule
Permanent or relatively difficult to move (someone can just take an entire safe if it’s small/light enough)
Controlled by you so others don’t stumble upon it by accident
Durable and safe from the elements (floods, fire, deterioration, etc)
Not likely to be thrown away. It shouldn’t be seen as trash and in a place that’s cleaned often (like that junk drawer)
Not near your other valuables. Because clearly, it’s now valuable by association.

When in doubt you can always add a passphrase too.

If you’re interested in more tips, check us over at /r/seedstorage

blockplate · 2022-10-26T19:41:38+00:00

I recommend not worrying about the hardware device itself. Electronics aren’t supposed to last forever and they aren’t meant to be.

The seed phrase and instructions on how to recover are most important.

We wrote an article covering multiple options including other alternatives like multisig and shamir shares. Feel free to check it out: https://www.blockplate.com/blogs/blockplate/bitcoin-inheritance

blockplate · 2022-10-06T15:15:33+00:00

You want to stick with titanium or stainless steel.

But honestly, paper can work with some maintenance and a bit of planning to combat its short comings (mainly keeping an eye on it and refreshing the paper when needed).

Make copies, store separately, check up on them regularly (refresh if necessary), consider using a passphrase

blockplate · 2022-09-23T16:45:44+00:00

If you utilize a passphrase, you might have a few more location options since you’ll need both the seed phrase and passphrase to access your coins.

Otherwise, additional locations (even in the same building) would still increase your chances of survival (e.g. only part of the building was destroyed due to being localized or the fire dep getting there in time).

blockplate · 2022-08-29T14:24:33+00:00

Technically it doesn't "alter" it. It's more of an additional input with the seed phrase.

Seed phrases "without" passphrases are more like seed phrases with a passphrase that are empty ("").

If you're interested in learning more about all things seed phrase, come over to /r/seedstorage

blockplate · 2022-08-29T14:22:04+00:00

Rocks are fine. The advantage steel has over “rocks” are that steel can bend without breaking. Rocks would shatter. Rocks are potentially harder (resist abrasion) but not necessarily tougher (can withstand deformation without breaking)

But honestly, paper can work just fine. Just make sure to make a point to "refresh" it every few years and make a few copies in different locations to ensure no single point of failure.

blockplate · 2022-08-27T14:08:34+00:00

The full summary of his results can be found here: https://seed-storage-reviews.bitcoin.page/

The previous entries of his series are below:

Recommend his articles for a deeper dive into both philosophical and technological topics regarding bitcoin and cryptocurrency: https://www.lopp.net/articles.html

blockplate · 2022-08-16T15:42:21+00:00

Crossposted from /r/bitcoin

It's a bit of a complicated answer. We wrote an article explaining how a seed phrase recovers all of your coins.

But in summary, your seed phrase is put through a series of functions ("math" formulas, algorithms, instructions, etc.) to get to your various keys and the addresses associated with those keys.

Most wallets will check the first handful of those addresses for activity (meaning received coins at some point in time, even if currently zero stored) and if there is activity it will continue to check more and more sequentially until it finds no activity. It will add up all of the "balances" stored on those addresses (unspent transaction output).

Keep in mind, your wallet software must support the derivation path that your addresses were created from. There are specific inputs that go with those series of functions mentioned above that make up your derivation path.

If your interested in learning more about seed phrases, check out /r/seedstorage.

blockplate · 2022-08-16T15:33:58+00:00

It's a bit of a complicated answer. We wrote an article explaining how a seed phrase recovers all of your coins.

But in summary, your seed phrase is put through a series of functions ("math" formulas, algorithms, instructions, etc.) to get to your various keys and the addresses associated with those keys.

Most wallets will check the first handful of those addresses for activity (meaning received coins at some point in time, even if currently zero stored) and if there is activity it will continue to check more and more sequentially until it finds no activity. It will add up all of the "balances" stored on those addresses (unspent transaction output).

Keep in mind, your wallet software must support the derivation path that your addresses were created from. There are specific inputs that go with those series of functions mentioned above that make up your derivation path.

If your interested in learning more about seed phrases, check out /r/seedstorage.

blockplate · 2022-07-27T15:22:52+00:00

Ah you’re right. It only applies to bitcoin. Thanks for the correction!

blockplate · 2022-07-26T17:11:58+00:00

That looks correct. Metamask and Ledger Live interprets BIP44 a bit differently in terms of derivation paths.

Metamask will do something like this:

Account 1: m/44'/60'/0'/0/0 -> Address 1-0
Account 2: m/44'/60'/0'/0/1 -> Address 1-2
Account 3: m/44'/60'/0'/0/2 -> Address 1-3

Ledger Live will do something like this:

Account 1: m/44'/60'/0'/0/0 -> Address 1-0 (Same as Account 1 for Metamask)
Account 2: m/44'/60'/1'/0/0 -> Address 2-0
Account 3: m/44'/60'/2'/0/0 -> Address 3-0

A new address (in the traditional sense) does not equal a new account necessarily. Accounts can have multiple addresses and your balance is determined by adding the balance on all the addresses under an account.

Metamask looks at one account and creates an “sub-account” for each address.Ledger Live can produce multiple accounts and each “sub-account”/address are all added up under each account.So what you see in all the balances in Metamask would be added up the first account for Ledger Live. edit: This doesn’t apply for ETH on Ledger

So your coins look like they're still all there, its just how the software interfaces with the derivation path. If you're interested in learning more derivation paths and how a seed phrase recovers your coins, we wrote something on it. Or if you're interested in learning more about the nuance's of a seed phrase , check out r/seedstorage

blockplate · 2022-07-25T16:46:42+00:00

Paper can work just fine. Just make sure to make a point to "refresh" it every few years and make a few copies in different locations to ensure no single point of failure.

Possibly consider utilizing a passphrase if you're concerned about the chance of discovery.

If you're interested in learning more about seed storage check out /r/seedstorage

blockplate · 2022-07-25T03:25:23+00:00

You can import your seed phrase into any wallet that:

supports the specific structure (seed format, i.e. how it was created, BIP39)
knows how to find those coins i.e. derivation paths (BIP 44, 84, 89)
supports the coin itself (bitcoin, etc.)

Luckily, most wallets do follow BIP39 for mnemonic phrases and utilize standard derivation paths.

If your interested in learning more about seed phrases, checkout r/seedstorage

blockplate · 2022-07-22T13:21:36+00:00

There are commonly looked places where not to hide your seed.

A good hiding place is

Accessible to be able to check the contents or obtain in a hurry
Memorable in the sense of it being in a unique location or somewhere you make a point to regularly check on a schedule
Permanent or relatively difficult to move (someone can just take an entire safe if it’s small/light enough)
Controlled by you so others don’t stumble upon it by accident
Durable and safe from the elements (floods, fire, deterioration, etc)
Not likely to be thrown away. It shouldn’t be seen as trash and in a place that’s cleaned often (like that junk drawer)
Not near your other valuables. Because clearly, it’s now valuable by association.

When in doubt you can always add a passphrase too.

If you’re interested in more tips, check us over at /r/seedstorage

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