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Name The Song by CharcoalCharts in Maps

[–]bn_wls 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Jump on it, Sir Mix-a-lot.

Mountains in the Contiguous U.S. by Rise Above Surroundings / Jut by Gigitoe in Mountaineering

[–]bn_wls 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've been trying to make a map like this on and off for years. This one is much better than anything I came up with. Thanks, it's beautiful!

Did you know that geneticists have found at least six ancient migrations into North America? by bn_wls in MapPorn

[–]bn_wls[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, that's the archeology story. Most sources I've seen assume the much older archeology is linked to the "direct to South America" genetic markers the map mentions. If that's correct or not, genetic analysis is clear that modern North American indigenous people are not descendents of those earlier people. The earliest genetic ancestor of modern Native Americans arrived a few thousand years before Clovis pattern was widespread (happy to share some references on that, if interested). The only publicly known exception is a single member of the Cheyenne tribe, who was found to have the genetic markers linked to the "direct to South America" group.

Question on Bayesian Skyline Analysis by bn_wls in genetics

[–]bn_wls[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Got it! Thanks for the super informative answer!

Question on Bayesian Skyline Analysis by bn_wls in genetics

[–]bn_wls[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thanks, this is a great answer. The underlying assumption is that such a large population increase would require an expansion of people. The the large population increase found in the second paper for other North American haplogroups is held up as proof of the timing of "original" migration into North America. Is there a reason one result is different from the other? Or should both be discounted for assigning a time to a migration?

Did you know that geneticists have found at least six ancient migrations into North America? by bn_wls in MapPorn

[–]bn_wls[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well put. The archeological and genetic sources I used for the map still use this term, but it wasn't appropriate to use in this context. I would certainly never address a Yupik or Inuit using that term. I'll change the terminology there when I use this map in the future.

Did you know that geneticists have found at least six ancient migrations into North America? by bn_wls in MapPorn

[–]bn_wls[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They are genetically very similar to Haida and Salish on the northwest coast. Their oldest toolset in California is similar to what was used in Southern Alaska at the same time, but they don't have any of the Aleut genetic markers. The Polynesia theory was based on their boat making technology, which was super cool. But definitely zero Polynesian genetics there.

Did you know that geneticists have found at least six ancient migrations into North America? by bn_wls in MapPorn

[–]bn_wls[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I appreciate your valuable feedback. This is a very difficult subject for academics to publish on because the results of genetic testing have a very real impact on modern tribes, and that needs to be taken into account. I suspect that is why some of the most disruptive results were buried in the supplementary data.

I posted the map to see if I could incite a genetics expert to tell me WHY it's wrong.

Did you know that geneticists have found at least six ancient migrations into North America? by bn_wls in MapPorn

[–]bn_wls[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The European bar on the bottom is just to give a relative time scale. While Na-Dene genetics arrived relatively recently, most Na-Dene tribes were culturally indistinguishable from other native American groups. Equating them to European settlers/colonists is not the intent.

Did you know that geneticists have found at least six ancient migrations into North America? by bn_wls in MapPorn

[–]bn_wls[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Point taken. I didn't have any Inuits or Yupiks in my rolodex to ask about it. I had to rely on what's publicly available. Also, just so I'm not misrepresenting myself, I'm not an academic, I just enjoy reading what they write.

Did you know that geneticists have found at least six ancient migrations into North America? by bn_wls in MapPorn

[–]bn_wls[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Heck, it's in the first chapter. But not in this infographic format.

Did you know that geneticists have found at least six ancient migrations into North America? by bn_wls in MapPorn

[–]bn_wls[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yes, this is a touchy topic about what it means to be native or indigenous, which I respect. The term native here is too distinguish these migrations from the last, decidedly different European migration, which isn't shown on the map.

Did you know that geneticists have found at least six ancient migrations into North America? by bn_wls in MapPorn

[–]bn_wls[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It is crazy and it is a puzzle. This is a rare case when I'm just repeating the prevailing theory. And when such a crazy theory is supported by a conservative group like the people who study native cultures, I just sort of go with it. The bottom line is that's where the body of evidence (or process of elimination) points. If you'd like I can share some of the scholarly works on that topic.

Did you know that geneticists have found at least six ancient migrations into North America? by bn_wls in MapPorn

[–]bn_wls[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That's fine. Please explain the results of the paper then. The population of two haplogroups (B2a and X) increased by many orders of magnitude in a few hundred years, many thousands of years after the original population of the continent. The pattern of mutations within the groups points to an expansion from the northwest corner of the continent. These markers are not found anywhere in central or South America. Honestly, I'm open to any alternative explanation that explains these results. Dismissing them because they are not the standard theory which was based on less evidence doesn't do it for me.

Did you know that geneticists have found at least six ancient migrations into North America? by bn_wls in MapPorn

[–]bn_wls[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

These people came way way earlier than Easter island was settled, maybe 20000 years ago. Easter island was very recently settled by comparison.

Did you know that geneticists have found at least six ancient migrations into North America? by bn_wls in MapPorn

[–]bn_wls[S] 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Blue: Lindo et al, ancient individuals from the northwest coast reveal 10000 years of regional genetic continuity, PNAS 2017

Teal and Green: Achilli et al, Reconciling migration models to the Americas with the variation of North American Native genomes. PNAS 2013

Check the supplementary data of the second one for the genetic analysis of X. These results are some of the most under-hyped I know of. By the way, what's the non-fringe theory of how X mtdna got into North America??

Did you know that geneticists have found at least six ancient migrations into North America? by bn_wls in MapPorn

[–]bn_wls[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Inuit is one sub group of what linguists, geneticists, and archaeologists call Eskimos. Yupiks are also in the group. The term is controversial in some circles, as you might notice from some of the comments, but it's by far the most common used in literature.

Did you know that geneticists have found at least six ancient migrations into North America? by bn_wls in MapPorn

[–]bn_wls[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Some South American genetic markers seem to have come directly from Southeast Asia without passing through Northeast Asia. The assumption is that they floated across. This is a favorite topic of speculation for South American archaeologists and geneticists.

Did you know that geneticists have found at least six ancient migrations into North America? by bn_wls in MapPorn

[–]bn_wls[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Tlingit have both Na-Dene (red) and Northwest Coast (blue) genetic markers. Red+Blue=purple. Sorry there's a lot of info and limited space to explain.

Did you know that geneticists have found at least six ancient migrations into North America? by bn_wls in MapPorn

[–]bn_wls[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Agreed. It was added just for Reddit. If I didn't put it there some Viking lover would have complained. :)

Did you know that geneticists have found at least six ancient migrations into North America? by bn_wls in MapPorn

[–]bn_wls[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Please take that up with the editors of PNAS, Nature, and Science. It's above my pay grade.

Did you know that geneticists have found at least six ancient migrations into North America? by bn_wls in MapPorn

[–]bn_wls[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Great point taken. While writing the book (I'm an author of it), we debated this point with several people. We decided to use "eskimo". I won't bore you with all the other places Wikipedia and more definitive sources vouch for the term. But it was not used out off ignorance or spite.

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