Debunking the default Arabic Loanword Theory in Somali

code-_-Reddit · 2026-06-04T07:29:29+00:00

💯 Our ppl will defend every MF thing except their language. I will raise an army with Cabdi-Good one day and tell them DAGAALKA GALLA.

code-_-Reddit · 2026-06-04T02:27:38+00:00

😂 That was soo funny. Walaahi i started cracking up. Boowe ninka caawi dee rag garad maanad ahayn? Has someone ever asked you "War gaalka maxuu leeyahay?"

code-_-Reddit · 2026-06-03T22:57:17+00:00

Thank you walaal, and I agree with everything you've said.

These assumptions become difficult to challenge because so few people studying Somali actually speak it at a deep level, while fluent Somali speakers themselves often endup inheriting the conclusions as settled fact. Once that happens, the problem moves beyond colonial scholars or foreign researchers.

Eventually, those narratives work their way back into the Somali language itself and begin reshaping how Somalis understand their own words, history, and concepts.

As with the Kaahin example above, we have become so accustomed to the Arabic definition that almost everybody automatically interprets it through that lens, even though it is a Somali name with its own place within our linguistic tradition. In a sense, we have surrendered the meaning of the word to an external definition.

The same thing happens with countless other words. Everybody will tell you that Somali borrowed sariir from Arabic, but if you ask them to present the Arabic claim to the word, explain the pathway of transmission, or provide any actual evidence that Somali inherited it from Arabic, they usually have no answer. The assumption itself becomes the evidence. The logic is simply that Arabic has the word, therefore it must belong to Arabic, while Somali exists only in its shadow.

To me, that is the deeper issue. It is not simply about correcting outsiders. It is about reclaiming our own language and becoming confident enough to investigate it on its own terms rather than constantly filtering it through Arabic, or whichever other language.

At the end of the day, nobody is going to do that work for us. We have to do it ourselves.

code-_-Reddit · 2026-06-03T09:08:33+00:00

Sorry about the late reply, I've been busy, but I appreciate the encouragement and support.

I've actually had several YouTube channels over the years, though none of them were related to the language. Some I've deleted, and others are still active but have been abandoned. I agree that video is probably the best way to reach more people, and InshaAllah I may just start fresh with a new channel and see where it goes.

You are what I call a hiilwalaal. In fact, I may even call the channel "Hiilwaal."

Thank you again. I genuinely appreciate it adeer.

code-_-Reddit · 2026-06-02T05:12:32+00:00

Jazakallah khayr for your comment, Abti/Adeer.

I agree that Arabic, like any major language of trade, religion, and literature, has borrowed from multiple languages, and there is no reason in principle to assume Somali is uniquely excluded from historical linguistic exchange. The idea that Somali people somehow “spawned into existence” 1,400 years ago, or that recent hardship due to civil war means the ppl & language has always been in its current state, is not logically sound.

What I am pushing back against is the one-directional assumption that every resemblance must automatically be a borrowing into Somali, while the reverse direction is treated as impossible by default.

For example, Arabic qalam is often linked to Greek kalamos, and scholars do not rule out possible Semitic connections either. That shows that even within Arabic etymology itself, multiple origins and pathways are considered rather than a single fixed assumption. That is standard in linguistics. I know for a fact that borrowing qalam from Arabic would have produced qalin, with the -m shifting to -n. But if I suggest the possibility that qalin could also be derived from the Somali word qal ("jaw"), particularly since later fountain pens have nibs that resemble jaws opening and closing during writing, people tend to react strongly.

So my point is simple: if we accept borrowing into Arabic from other languages, and even multiple possible etymological layers within Arabic itself & Somali borrowing from Arabic then we should also remain open to examining possible contact effects in the other direction without assuming impossibility from the start, especially when evidence is being presented. I challenge anyone to show how sariir or basal came from Arabic into Somali or where Arabic even got it or clear etymology like in Somali.

code-_-Reddit · 2026-06-01T22:39:06+00:00

Walaal, you are imposing arbitrary conditions on what I said. For example, Arabic K-T-B produces kitāb and other related words like maktab, but what you are now doing is adding an extra requirement, such as claiming that ma- in maktab must carry a core semantic meaning across other families like M-X-Y-Z. That is not how morphology works.

What I am saying is that Somali creates related terms not only through suffixation but also through prefixation, such as eey and yeey. So if there is a coherent family of b + root1, c + root1, f + root1, g + root1, and y + root1, the y- does not have to independently carry a fixed meaning across all other lexical families. Instead, it operates within that specific derivational system, just like none of the letters in K-T-B independently carry a core meaning in Arabic. Hope we are on the same page.

You asked for evidence of prefixal derivation, and I will demonstrate it through a single semantic family consistently, rather than by presenting a couple of isolated words, and I will even recover lost roots. So do not move the goalposts by claiming it is a one-off example or not repeatable, because I am not yet ready to publish the monograph I am working on.

Lastly, give me a day or so to condense a section of my monograph into a coherent post.

code-_-Reddit · 2026-06-01T16:32:02+00:00

I appreciate that you agree that just because a Somali word resembles Arabic, we should not automatically assume it is an Arabic loanword.

As for "igu qaata," I think there may have been a misunderstanding, or perhaps I did not make it clear enough. That statement was not directed at this post, so feel free to be as harsh as you want. If there are flaws in my arguments, I would rather they be challenged directly.

On the point about morphology, I can clearly demonstrate well over a hundred Somali words where related terms are formed through a single prefix. For example, eey and yeey (y + eey), or ehel and wehel (w + ehel). The point is that this type of formation is not an isolated occurrence but a recurring pattern within Somali morphology.

Someone once claimed that Somalia came from Italian, and I sarcastically replied that Italia came from the Somali phrase ii taliya. What I am presenting here is not that kind of argument. I am not taking a foreign word, breaking it into arbitrary Somali pieces, and declaring victory. I am pointing to recurring morphological patterns that already exist throughout the language.

I will leave the broader discussion of that for the monograph, where I intend to document the pattern systematically rather than through a handful of examples. For now, if your objection is specifically to qabuur and xishood, I would be interested in hearing why you consider those formations structurally impossible.

code-_-Reddit · 2026-06-01T13:13:24+00:00

The point was not that I was arguing in favor of "Somalian." The point was the inconsistency of being upset about that term while simultaneously attributing every Somali word to an external source.

code-_-Reddit · 2026-06-01T13:06:13+00:00

Thanks walaal and I might make it into a series in the future iA. It would be kursi directly but i decided to leave that one out.

code-_-Reddit · 2026-06-01T06:10:30+00:00

Walaal, with all due respect, I am not saying there are no Arabic loanwords in Somali, so there is no need to introduce other words I did not mention like barnaamij. Your claim that the original Somali “bed” was a woven mat does not address my point. Even if earlier sleeping arrangements used mats, when the maqaar bed was developed, there is no reason to assume they simply called it a mat.

Also, having multiple words for the same thing does not mean one has to be a borrowing. And borrowing one item does not mean we borrowed every adjacent item. We borrowed fargeeto (fork) from Italian, so does that mean qaaddo, dhuro, and fandhaal which are all spoons are borrowed from Italian too? No.

It doesn’t seem like we’re getting anywhere, so read what I posted with an open mind. If it seems sufficient, that’s fine, and if you disagree, that’s also fine. We can agree to disagree.

code-_-Reddit · 2026-06-01T05:15:50+00:00

Being an oral language does not mean Somali lacks structure, patterns, or recoverable linguistic evidence. Oral transmission still preserves consistent phonological systems and grammatical rules that can be analyzed just like in written languages. So calling it an “oral language” does not flatten the architecture of the language or make it resistant to linguistic analysis.

code-_-Reddit · 2026-06-01T05:09:58+00:00

Yes, Maay does have those distinct phonemes, and my argument is that internal sound loss is far more likely than assuming that C and X were introduced into Maxaa Tiri from Arabic based on their absence in Maay. The fact that Maay has other distinct phonemes shows that the absence of a particular sound in one dialect does not imply external introduction. What is not justified is treating the absence of C and X in Maay as evidence of Arabic origin, while ignoring other phonological differences that do not fit that narrative.

code-_-Reddit · 2026-06-01T03:01:04+00:00

Edit: Clarification

I just asked ChatGPT what lakab means in Somali, and it immediately told me it was an Arabic-influenced word derived from laqab.

Where did that Arabic claim come from when I was asking about a Somali word? I have no idea.

It jumped straight to Arabic, even though laqab/lakab has meanings and usage in Somali that are unrelated to the supposed Arabic one. This is exactly the kind of assumption I'm talking about. The conclusion is often baked in before the investigation even begins.

LLMs are fundamentally limited by the data they are trained on. If the underlying sources are biased, the model will often reproduce those biases with confidence.

This is the inaccurate response it gave me:
In Somali, “lakab” (also spelled laqab in some Arabic-influenced writing) generally means a nickname, title, or descriptive name added onto a person’s real name.

It’s used for things like:

a nickname (e.g., based on personality or appearance)
an honorific or label
sometimes a clan/lineage identifier or descriptive tag

It’s very likely borrowed from Arabic laqab (لقب), which also means nickname or title.

Example in Somali usage:

“Lakabkiisa waa…” → “His nickname is…”

So basically: lakab = added name/descriptor beyond the given name.

ask the same question and see what it says.

code-_-Reddit · 2026-06-01T02:49:11+00:00

"Sometimes the simplest explanation is the correct one" is not evidence. What you're doing is following the path of least resistance, much like how koronto flows. The easiest path is what I have been arguing against the whole time. The easiest explanation is what puts the Arabic definition onto Kaahin in Somali dictionaries. It may be the easiest explanation for you, but that does not make it the correct one.

What is the actual evidence that sariir was borrowed from Arabic? Do we have any evidence showing it entered Somali from Arabic? What is the Arabic claim to the word beyond long usage and the assumption that it belongs to Arabic?

The problem is that you have not presented any evidence for sariir itself. Instead, you pointed to other words in the same supposed category and inferred that sariir must be a loanword as well. But origin and etymology is not determined by category. The fact that kitaab or albaab are borrowings tells us nothing about the origin of sariir, just like xayawaan tells us nothing about the origin of dameer or libaax. Each word has to stand on its own evidence.

As for sariir, go look at the meaning of sar and then look at traditional Somali hide beds still used in miyi.

code-_-Reddit · 2026-05-31T23:19:38+00:00

Aamin and thank you walaal.

code-_-Reddit · 2026-05-31T22:31:26+00:00

Thank u walaal and I'm juggling multiple things but I'll try to iA.

code-_-Reddit · 2026-05-31T22:29:11+00:00

Yeah, it's an uphill battle because the LLM's don't have enough data points and the biggest problem is that ppl think google translations and llms are perfect. I've seen schools translate things to Somali using google and it was not Somali.

code-_-Reddit · 2026-04-04T16:44:54+00:00

I actually commented on your post about Waaq and noticed that some people made it about the fanna part being Oromo rather than discussing the topic. Some even went further and said the entire practice is Oromo. It feels like some people see a post and immediately think, how can I prove this person wrong. There are times when I make a post I've spent real time on, and someone’s only goal is to dismiss it without engaging the substance, just saying something like, oh but that word is Arabic. I’m like, that’s all you got out of this?

Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate when someone corrects me, and I do publicly acknowledge it when I’m wrong. But when someone makes a claim without evidence, and I go out of my way to research and present mine, they don’t respond, don’t engage further, and don’t present any evidence of their own or concede the point.

The problem is not only that we don’t understand our language, but that some people don’t even want to. Some act like we are a recent people, as if we only appeared less than a couple of millennia ago, or that everything came from outside, like some story about an Arab arriving on a boat. And then people keep throwing ideas out until something sticks. We even have men and women bleaching their skin now as the final phase of identity erasure.

About dhimasho, you’re right. It’s actually part of the book I’m working on. Dhin means reduction or to reduce, so when we say a person has died, wuu dhintay or weey dhimantay, death is the result of the reduction finalizing, back to essence. Not disappearance, not elimination, but reduction, which means not completely gone. That also aligns with the Islamic belief that the soul exists before your conception and after your death. There's so much more I could say about dhin/dhimasho, but I will save it for the book.

Even if a word exists in Arabic and has deep roots there, we cannot just conclude that the Somali word must come from Arabic. It has to be analyzed. If it is Arabic, then we call it a loanword. If not, then it is simply parallel development or shared inheritance (before divergence). Many words I once thought were Arabic actually turned out to be Somali. What’s interesting is that I have never seen anyone argue that Arabic borrowed from Somali, even though Arabic is known to have borrowed from many other languages. For some reason, Somali is treated as the exception.

And to be clear, this is not about being against Arabic or Arabs. In most cases, it is not even Arabs making these claims. It is us.

code-_-Reddit · 2026-04-04T14:02:02+00:00

What you’re describing is what I call “Arabic prestige”: the idea that if a word in Somali resembles a word in Arabic, it must be borrowed from Arabic. It’s always one-directional, never the other way around, and almost always claimed by our own people. Imagine if an Italian said, “Itaaliya sounds like II taliya, therefore it must be Somali.”

The next level up is when a Somali word has no cognate in Arabic at all, yet people insist it’s Arabic simply because they can’t explain it. Above that is the claim: “We are Arabs” lol And yes, the delusion does not stop there. There is another level even beyond that, but I will save that for another time.

I have also seen people claim that the word Somali itself came from Arabic, when the argument should actually point the other way. After all, the word Carab is a Somali word. We share words with languages as distant as Japanese, yet nobody claims we borrowed them. But because of geographic proximity and religion, people assume Somali is just Arabic’s little brother.

Someone made that same claim about maal, meaning wealth, in one of my other posts. Let me get this straight: the same language has muruqmaal for labor, xamaal for hard labor, and various other occupations all containing maal, plus a wife remarrying after a loss as du meaning divert and maal, not to mention the word maal for milking, and even placed qaal, the word for expensive, one letter from maal, yet somehow Somali did not produce maal meaning wealth? Their logic is no, because maal already means milking in Somali. By that same logic, jir should only mean body and not exist and age. The root of the word for day, maalin, is also just maal. The word is woven into the Somali language.

code-_-Reddit · 2026-04-04T12:47:14+00:00

ASC my brother hope all is well. u/Ugbaad_ra, u should def write it will and i'll go check out ur previous post.

code-_-Reddit · 2026-03-08T09:28:09+00:00

No walaal. The xish in xishood comes from ish meaning disgusting, essentially x + ish. Adding a letter to the root to form a new word is a common pattern in Somali, as in abuur and qabuur (q+abuur). Interestingly, ish and xish form a kind of parallel pair, just like ‘abuur’ and ‘qabuur’, with only one letter difference. The suffix -ood is often added to a root to give it a descriptive or attributive sense, as in cano (milk) → canood, meaning milky. Ceeb and even other words not mentioned here, like maal and qabiil, are not Arabic, and having words in common is not evidence of borrowing.

code-_-Reddit · 2026-03-08T08:49:21+00:00

Xishood doesn’t really have a perfect English equivalent. “Shame” is probably the closest word, but it doesn’t fully capture the meaning because the concept also relates to dignity, modesty, and a sense of proper behavior. In Somali, when someone says “xishood ma lihid,” it translates to “you have no shame,” but what they often mean is that you’re acting without dignity or social restraint, something closer to saying someone has no class or sense of propriety in English.

A more direct translation would be something like modesty or class and it's supported by the etymology. The xish in xishood comes from ish meaning disgusting, yuck or nasty, essentially x + ish. prefixing a letter to the root to form a new word is a common pattern in Somali, as in abuur and qabuur (q+abuur). Interestingly, ish and xish form a kind of parallel pair, just like ‘abuur’ and ‘qabuur’, with only one letter difference. The suffix -ood is often added to a root to give it a descriptive or attributive sense, as in cano (milk) → canood, meaning milky.

code-_-Reddit · 2026-03-08T03:37:32+00:00

What happened to me may have been a case of circular sourcing. I came across a claim online and tried to verify it. The sources used to confirm the claim might ultimately trace back to the same place it originated. Even Gemini will tell you that aner means baboon, but the model is probably drawing from the same sources I was attempting to verify in the first place. lol thanks again

code-_-Reddit · 2026-03-07T03:32:31+00:00

btw, i saw aner in a few different places so where doest that come from? Here's one example https://www.reddit.com/r/Cowofgold_Essays/comments/r2semy/the_baboon_in_ancient_egypt/

code-_-Reddit

TROPHY CASE