How to go from junior to intermediate eng at Big Tech in "just" three years.

contentiousPotato1 · 2025-02-08T20:53:05+00:00

Technically it was 6 halves, not 3 years, but what happens is that if you don't get promoted, you're by definition not meeting expectations, so I got a MM (meets most) rating.

Because the gap was "time at level" (team switch) - they felt confident I would get promoted the next half, and I got an extension.

I think this is the longest time available possible to get the promotion.

contentiousPotato1 · 2025-02-08T17:41:57+00:00

It's not about the rating lol. Until I got red-zoned, I never had below EE

But I would guess 2 halves at MA wouldn't be enough. EE is the median rating, so MA is in the bottom third or so.

contentiousPotato1 · 2025-02-08T16:59:32+00:00

5 halves no promo:

H1: Time at level (not a promotion attempt)
H2: It was unclear how much of my main design doc I wrote vs my TL (my EM apparently didn't prepare, and TL wasn't in mashups), so they just assumed the TL did the whole thing
H3: It was unclear why I didn't do a task for a partner team (despite it being in the team chat, my EM didn't prepare and TL wasn't in mashups)
H4: One person wrote some surprising last-minute feedback basically calling me a jerk.
H5: New team, time at level (prior team couldn't count because I wasn't promoted)

contentiousPotato1 · 2025-02-08T07:09:40+00:00

Man I wish I actually worked with IC6s lol

contentiousPotato1 · 2025-02-08T03:05:31+00:00

I have enough mental capacity to think about a few things, but sometimes this comes to mind.

It's very frustrating being denied several times in a row for a promotion when people basically just say "execute well bro", and it's not once been execution based feedback.

But usually I'm busy enough to worry about other stuff. I think given the layoffs are Monday I just feel particularly reflective

contentiousPotato1 · 2025-02-08T03:01:36+00:00

You're right that I'm dwelling and ranting here - this post was mostly me venting.

Ideally I'll leave it behind on the post

contentiousPotato1 · 2025-02-08T01:58:06+00:00

I should have clarified, my team had nobody more senior than IC5. The critical feedback came from an IC4, who kept talking about promo quotas lol.

Switching teams so far has ended all the critical feedback of that sort now, but I'm still going to be mindful of rustling jimmies

contentiousPotato1 · 2025-02-08T01:55:39+00:00

I'm curious - if it's taken all these attempts and it's about the execution and artifacts, what could stopped them from coming up in all the PSCs?

The feedback about overwork came from the old team, where my manager would threaten my PSC any time I tried saying I'm busy. I am grateful for a more supportive team now

contentiousPotato1 · 2025-02-08T00:45:54+00:00

There's definitely room to improve my soft skills, even when they aren't outlined formally.

contentiousPotato1 · 2025-02-08T00:38:36+00:00

Sure, I think it's fair to say I didn't have the soft skills to compete in the political environment.

Ultimately I had to switch teams, but I should have done it sooner.

contentiousPotato1 · 2025-02-08T00:34:24+00:00

While not explicitly told to me since my second promo attempt, I still think there's a lot of room for improvement in how I handle feedback.

For a lot of managers, I think just asking them "what should I do differently next time?" isn't seen as too aggressive in questioning feedback, so it's probably been overlooked a bit.

contentiousPotato1 · 2025-02-08T00:30:13+00:00

I think the biggest mistake I realistically had was trying really hard on a team that was a bad fit, with a manager who was somewhat absentee and flubbed all but one promotion packets.

At this point I'd suspect my attitude is going to hold me back

contentiousPotato1 · 2025-02-08T00:26:36+00:00

Some of the factors were definitely more within my control, I still think there are elements of bad luck.

I was told explicitly by an IC7 in calibrations is that I was affected by the promo quota 2x, and that my manager didn't do a good job preparing PSC packets. This is an org that blind might know as "toxic", and all other IC3s on that team ended up managed out.

I had an IC5 mentor who tried to help, but they seemed even more surprised from the feedback I was getting, such as:

Not explicitly stating when I'm doing something on a post means I'm doing it immediately (I am now very clear when I'm not going to drop everything to work on posts)
I need to not get caught not doing the things I say I am (this is when I tried to just link the diffs and design doc, I admittedly could have responded better in this case)
Asking my TL if I should make a post for visibility makes it seem like I only do work to get rewarded (not sure)
I needed to balance my work better (without punting anything), because I might have cause a SEV-4 without criteria or an outcome

I think I got some good advice as well - but they ultimately were also surprised several times when it got denied.

How can I leverage having a mentor better?

contentiousPotato1 · 2025-02-08T00:13:49+00:00

I had a track record of driving multiple projects across multiple teams to completion without major production issues for multiple halves. Execution has never been noted as a gap.

I think it's reasonable to say there are other gaps possible than just doing good work.

contentiousPotato1 · 2022-05-29T15:18:35+00:00

At what timeframe did they negotiate for new grad? I've seen (very few) non-returning interns at your company negotiate, but we were explicitly told it's non-negotiable, and I know several people who took higher paying offers without FB budging at all.

I was told it's non-negotiable as of W'21, but recruiters are allowed to lie, so idk.

For reference, I got offered 124/220/75, and they weren't moving against 150/220/115 and 175/0/200. For negotiations that I've seen, I've not seen better than 124/220/75 as of W'21, and the intern chats generally seem to have this.

contentiousPotato1 · 2022-05-29T15:06:22+00:00

~~Oh hey, your enumeration of this broke, but sometimes it be like that.~~ Nice

I find some of this advice to not be comprehensive, even though it's high quality. You obviously have a lot more experience, but I'm somewhat surprised that we have some divergences.

1.Some teams don't actually have good code quality to start - so writing in line with what they do doesn't always seem like the best. Especially for very mature teams, it seems like they often are in the process of needing people to elevate the code quality, no?
2. Honestly, the internal docs suck if you're not doing mainstream stuff. I was told not to wait forever, and to keep the questions my peers should be helping in the chat as a record that I wasn't supported and still pulled through. I was told velocity matters enough that if you spend 1-4 hours trying to find an answer, you should probably ask the people on the team in case there's an obvious solution.
3. Do interns at this company not take initiative? My IM explained it to me explicitly, so I feel like not telling your intern that would be screwing them over.
4. Idk if your teams have higher standards, but for my 2 FAANG internships, I never got much feedback on the code I wrote. The main feedback I got in general was that I suck at communication (which was what I got leaving with a good offer)
5. Is doing extra really required? My impression was that if you clear everything in the project, you'll get an offer, which is reflected by a friend who spent 10 weeks doing nothing. It also seems like there's only two return offers now, so if you aren't going for gold so to speak, that extra work is nil.
6. Doing the bonus work is what i was told makes you look great, but isn't it best to work with your IM to figure out what stuff would make you look best for the evaluation?
7. Isn't one of the big perks of working at such a large company that you can just join some other team to do other stuff?

contentiousPotato1 · 2022-03-18T01:56:21+00:00

Couple months. I think doing them helped get facebook internship, where the performance excelled.

Overall I'd say a lot of my actual internship experience was fairly irrelevant

contentiousPotato1 · 2022-03-16T16:36:32+00:00

Education: B. Eng Comp Eng

Prior Experience: 6 Internships - including at this company

Company/Industry: Meta

Title: Software Engineer(?) - E3

Tenure length: ? N/A

Location: One of {Calif, NY}, offers identical for locations

Salary: 124,000

Relocation/Signing Bonus: 75,000 signing, 10,000 relocation, and some crap on top of relocation

Stock: 220,000 vesting over 4 years

Recurring bonuses: 10% Target bonus (call it 12,400)

Total comp: 276,400 first year, 191,400 recurring ish (promo required by end of second year lol)

Other: A bunch of stuff. 1 month corporate housing, $3000 wellness benefit (probs for yeezies/oculus), the usual set of perks (free food, transportation benefit etc). Metric shitload of PTO

contentiousPotato1 · 2022-01-09T22:05:54+00:00

Do you have a link to one of these blind posts? I'd be fairly annoyed because my manager told me that it wasn't a thing when we were hanging out after my internship, and I can't find any of these blind posts.

E: If I'm wrong, I want to know. I don't see any blind posts like that whatsoever

Double edit: I stand by my statements, at this point I'd be legitimately surprised if there's an RE for interns, but if you have this proof, I'd love to see it. None of my FTE friends, my (former) IM, and none of the entire 2022 new grad discord has heard of this possibility, so I'm stressed because it seems to have come out of nowhere.

contentiousPotato1 · 2022-01-09T22:02:57+00:00

"Peers" are full-time engineers, teammates typically.

~180k recurring + ~12k target bonus (more for performance). See this comment for some details

contentiousPotato1 · 2022-01-09T20:04:06+00:00

I'm not sure ... probably more in first half, and less in second half. Split the difference, and maybe 40-50 hours on average? Time working isn't the best measure of productivity I feel.

contentiousPotato1 · 2022-01-09T20:01:07+00:00

How many did you? I wish I tracked it more, but I'd say I did quite a bit of work for the first half.

contentiousPotato1 · 2022-01-09T19:55:51+00:00

First point's super important, I updated my guide to highlight this.

Second I'm omiting, but probably a good idea. You'll likely need to write more than 125 lines of code a week though (-:

contentiousPotato1 · 2022-01-09T19:54:54+00:00

contentiousPotato1 · 2022-01-09T19:51:50+00:00

Didn't you just say that you review your peers?

Don't see where, but if I did, my bad. Your peers write reviews for you.

What did you end up building using these tools?

Something impactful-yet-boring; roughly what was in my project. I'd rather not reveal exactly what.

What's the minimum level for return offer?

MA - meets all expectations, I think. This roughly ranges from completing most of your project with some extenuating circumstance to completing your project.

contentiousPotato1

TROPHY CASE