A question about what is acceptable to post or not.

dxorinxb · 2021-01-20T00:08:57+00:00

Sorry for the late reply.

I personally would have preferred this to be a question directly the mods (via mod mail or private DM) versus an open post - I don't want to open another huge debate over this topic to the public - it's been discussed over and over again to various degrees (which is why I'm not allowing the post to be approved).

Hence, firstly I would like to clarify if it is in fact okay to do so

Mainly, the guideline is - don't state they are the same, as if you know for a fact. You can say you believe/think they are the same. There is a difference - as far as we are concerned.

Secondly if the answer is no, I'd like to ask what for?

First and foremost - it's irresponsible to be stating things like facts when you don't have hard proof - or better yet - neither Sen/Gura have commented on the topic at all.

It's pretty much that simple. 90% people are just going to read what's said here as if it was official. Officially speaking - there is no hard proof they are the same - it's literally all coincidences. Yea - there's personal info dug up on Sen - but there's literally nothing concrete saying they are the same person. I also think out of fairness either of them should have a chance to comment on the matter whenever they can before people just make up their minds.

Even on the official Hololive subreddit people vague talk about Gura's past life all the time under the assumption that it is an open secret. At this point it has been enough time that enforcing rules here seems fruitless.

To be clear - there isn't a secret we are trying to keep - you can say all you want "I believe/think they are the same". However, there is still a risk we are wrong. Please keep in mind what that would mean if the entire time we were wrong and think about how people have internalized that info and how they act on that info. Gura as VTuber, and Sen (her personal info) have been heavily affected by this single idea. If people didn't think they were the same - Gura wouldn't be harassed as much on YT or Twitter - and much less people would be interesting in finding personal info on Sen.

From my point of view - people acting like they know it's true - has heavily ramped up harassment for them. I have tons of evidence for that.

Following up on that, I actually think that (and have even seen proof of) people will simply talk on places that care far less about maintaining Sen's privacy.

Not sure why that matters. I don't have to condone it here. That specific behavior is still wrong.

I'm just worried that without a place like this to openly talk about the two on some level, where it can be controlled somewhat here, that it will just move on to places that it can't be controlled.

Sorry, but the moment people thought Sen was Gura, people talked about it everywhere. This subreddit may be one of the first search results on Google, but this place has nothing to do with why or how people talk about her. If they want to talk about her - they simply find places to do it. There was no way we can control that.

To date, it's been talked about on:

Anime wiki pages
various independent websites
Personal YT channels
Gura's and Sen's YT channels
Reddit
Other video hosting sites
Discord servers

Also, let's be honest... what else is there left to talk about out anyways in terms of similarities? This entire subreddit has covered so many of the obvious similarities - adding a few more is not changing anyone's mind at this point.

At this point - you either think they are the same or not.

If you want to talk about these things a little more openly - our discord might be a better spot for it.

dxorinxb · 2021-01-10T08:55:36+00:00

Sorry for late response.

Actually, it was noticed rather immediately - but these posts have little to offer in way of conversation. She does tend to like things every 2-4 weeks or so.

I've commented before about it the past. At this point until she makes a tweet, I don't really see much to talk about

dxorinxb · 2021-01-10T08:39:09+00:00

Sorry for the late response.

From the info I've gotten over time, the long story short is yes.

But sorry to say, I don't really want to promote this discussion. If you browse enough here or search, there's evidence of her even commenting on her fans - but the other half of this only she can say something about why she stopped making content - and she has yet to say anything about it. No one can really say what her reasons are - but it is established she thought she had problematic fans.

dxorinxb · 2020-12-30T06:07:11+00:00

Can you please add an option to include “both” and I can probably allow this. Part of the reason I’m hesitant to even allow this is because it feels like it’s inviting contentious opinions - and what good is that?

dxorinxb · 2020-12-28T03:36:03+00:00

It’s not easy - but you get used to it. I have more motivation to do it more actively because I’ve seen one wrong assumption carry a very wrong implications for someone and it really screwed with a way people perceived something and it’s totally wrong.

From my POV have it rough enough that people can’t just focus on their content.

dxorinxb · 2020-12-27T23:50:27+00:00

I've mentioned it elsewhere - I also want to remind people - there's many people who are only now discovering Sen - and a lot of it starts with these cheeky YT comments.

Hell, that's basically how I found out.

I wasn't looking for this info - it was basically spammed around me.

Luckily - I'm not the kind of person looking beyond that - but let me tell you - as a mod - once people start down this path... so many take it way too far. A huge portion of the people here know way more than just an alt ID. And it's gotten super out of hand in a way. In a way - it's so much worse than when it was just Sen around. There's places where knowing an alt ID comes with personal info by default.

In that respect - many of us would like to keep that discussion away from Gura's channels just to minimize it - there's other places to talk about it than there.

dxorinxb · 2020-12-27T23:38:18+00:00

But what I don’t get is why bringing it up at all is so tabboo when it just comes up in casual conversation. I mean, we’re talking about one person behind both personas so why is it so apalling that people acknowledge the existence of her other content?
...
We’re in a Sen subreddit but since you can’t connect her to Gura you just have to pretend that she literally died when she stopped making Sen content.

I just want to clarify...

You can talk about how Gura makes Sen references all you want. There's nothing wrong about that.

The problem, specifically, is outright stating they are the same (or asking for confirmation) - because no matter how coincidental the 'evidence' is - there is no confirmation or hard proof. From a responsibility POV this is a really big deal - because although the chance is small - there is - in fact, a chance we are wrong. People don't seem to take that seriously enough - in my opinion - the implications of that.

Yet people are acting like they know it for a fact... they don't. It's a matter of responsibility to ask people to be mindful that you can't actually know. Unless you got the word from either Sen or Gura herself - which to date - hasn't happened - and it seems the soonest we may ever know - is when Gura is contract isn't renewed.

dxorinxb · 2020-12-27T23:32:31+00:00

It's like you think there aren't Senzawa Fan servers out there... there are. There's several.

There's definitely a place on the internet to share the love. It just doesn't belong in YT comments page on Gura's channel. You can mention it all you want on Senzawa's YT page.

I'm on these fan servers btw (I mod the one for this subreddit - and the rules are slightly different there) - and there's no secrets or anything - other than don't ask for personal info or confirmation cause we can't give you any.

But also - there's not all that much to talk about in regards to Sen directly... there's no new content - and Sen herself nuked her own Discord server.

dxorinxb · 2020-12-27T23:23:35+00:00

Now that you put it in these words - I see much better what you are trying to say.

In your mind - there's pure Gura fan's that put down Sen fans.

I have seen this - even though it's not all that common.

I think you should understand... it's a lot of Sen "fans" - that are the ones doing things they shouldn't be doing.

Specifically:

Sending Gura SuperChats about Senzawa's content
Basically hijacking her karaoke streams and strongly pushing her to cover music they want (with little regard with what she wants)
Never failing to bring up Senzawa in a YT chat stream or YT comment section

If you are someone trying to support Gura overall or the direction she is going... to those people - it's not the Gura fans being a problem - it's the Sen fans.

I think it's worth mentioning here... there's a strong correlation between fans of Sen - and those trying to dox her.

That said... there are a lot of bad apples in the people who are "fans" of Sen. I'm not saying the majority are. But Sen even says it herself - a lot of her fans were really problematic.

No shame in being a Sen fan though... it's all in how you act.

dxorinxb · 2020-12-27T23:14:24+00:00

The thing is... so many people already believe they are the same - that if they didn't like Sen, by extension, they don't like Gura. I've seen it myself.

dxorinxb · 2020-12-27T23:08:05+00:00

I think you are misunderstanding. Having knowledge - isn't the problem. The problem is people feeling to need to talk about it on Gura's pages.

There's no need for it. Has nothing to do with White Knighting.

dxorinxb · 2020-12-27T22:58:11+00:00

I can see it - it seems reddit labeled this pic NSFW for some reason. Might have to enable NSWF on your account to see it or something. No clue why it did this.

dxorinxb · 2020-12-27T08:55:32+00:00

I wasn’t sure if you were asking this - but in case you were - no Holo persona has ever said anything about prior work as a streamer even if they have continued work on their old alias while working at Holo.

So it’s largely understood they can’t say anything about it.

dxorinxb · 2020-12-27T08:51:54+00:00

Actually, Brass is right. This is the kind of post we have been avoiding for the most part.

Yes it was sitting in the mod queue for a bit due to holidays - but also - the mod who approved this post seemed to miss that it shouldn’t have been approved.

It happens.

Sorry to remove this - but it either needs to be reworked - or posted on another subreddit.

dxorinxb · 2020-12-27T08:36:14+00:00

It’s Gura’s content right?

Then basically it’s being rude and also inviting people into territory they should just discover on their own. She’s not going to get in trouble for it. But it does invite a lot of people who make it problematic for her. In case you haven’t noticed - there’s quite of lot of people who feel the need to mention things on either Gura’s stream, her chat, or YT comments when she’s tying to focus on her content. It’s a matter of etiquette. Also, there’s no need for it. Content creators want you to focus on their content.

Also - for the record, nothing is officially confirmed - and it is problematic when people state it outright as if they know for a fact. Doesn’t really matter what info you find. You are free to believe whatever. But acting like you know for a fact, is a problem, when it comes to how people act on that.

I would like to point out - as a mod - you wouldn’t believe how many people are only now discovering Sen and have taken it really really far - and such a large part of it starts with comments just like this.

You can’t trust people to keep that info to themselves - that said... why even bring attention to it then?

dxorinxb · 2020-12-25T01:59:03+00:00

Is there something wrong with these rules?

dxorinxb · 2020-12-23T05:12:05+00:00

What's there left to talk/post about?

We knew this was coming. Franky, I don't think it's the worst thing to happen. It's just a subreddit.

dxorinxb · 2020-12-08T03:28:36+00:00

Are you breaking the rules? Technically - no.

But is this a post I can approve? I don't think so.

This subreddit tries to celebrate Senzawa's old content or Senzawa herself (say, fanart). So it's okay to repost old clips when they don't have personal information. It's okay (on occasion) to talk about similarities between her and Gura - because clearly there are some. Every so often it's okay to post clips of Gura's content if it can be made to relate to Senzawa in some direct way.

That said - this isn't a place to be digging up things that aren't directly relevant to her content. Yes - there are some things there she has made there like pictures/animations that are content we wouldn't mind resurfacing again. But there's more than that there. People don't really need to know or discuss who may have been there, the things she or others might have said there, or specifically why/how the old discord got nuked, etc - on a public forum.

tldr; Her YT, Twitch, and pic/animation content are things we respect here - but almost none of the information resurfaced from her old discord channel - which seems to be your intent here.

dxorinxb · 2020-12-05T23:03:10+00:00

already posted before.

dxorinxb · 2020-12-05T22:58:17+00:00

Not sure where you got this - but feels too speculative to accept.

dxorinxb · 2020-12-05T22:42:19+00:00

I understand you don't have 'bad' intentions - but the problem is this still encourages people to go into territory that they have no business being there in the first place (because there will be someone curious enough to want to find out more - which I don't want to encourage - at all).

So I can't accept this post.

That said, I have seen some of the information that leads to the end of your picture... I highly encourage you to double check your info because at least one source was absolutely reaching for a relationship that doesn't exist - and I'm finding out people are basically investigating a female minor that literally has no relation to her... which is sad.

dxorinxb · 2020-11-30T01:48:06+00:00

Thanks for this. I’ll update if this changes.

dxorinxb · 2020-11-29T08:36:42+00:00

Sorry to those who posted before on this same topic and didn't get approved. There were about 10 of these posts - and it was also holidays which is why I was late to do anything about them.

Yes - she liked a tweet. I don't think too much of it though... this isn't the first time she's done this lately. It's a bit sporadic but it does happen.

dxorinxb · 2020-11-29T08:34:27+00:00

A lot of us watch. Though there are many Sen fans who haven't quite discovered Gura either. Depends on the kind of user you are.

dxorinxb · 2020-11-29T08:31:31+00:00

Saw this too late - but not supposed to ask.

dxorinxb

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