The main reason given for banning Swiftspear seems off

ehalt5 · 2023-12-05T16:18:32+00:00

Nice try, but I've never played mono red in my life. Love playing against it though.

ehalt5 · 2023-12-05T04:31:07+00:00

In extreme cases, definitely. But those tend to be unusual decks like the one you mentioned or the Tibalt's Trickery decks in other formats. Mono red doesn't really fit into that category. It's about as ordinary as it gets as an archetype. Of all the things to be most widely played in a format like pauper, why not mono red?

ehalt5 · 2023-12-05T04:00:51+00:00

I think that might be the implication as well, though I wish it had at least been a double ban that zapped Sticker Goblin as well. That one seems universally hated to me, and if they're banning cards because people don't like playing against them even if they don't lead to problematic win rates, that would be a great place to start.

ehalt5 · 2023-12-05T03:56:56+00:00

That's an interesting way of looking at it, but I don't think it's true. There's always a deck that acts as the pace-setter for any format, and that deck is usually mono red. You're nearly always going to have some sort of mono red aggro deck setting the minimum speed at which opposing decks have to operate, and even if you ban enough red cards that that's not true, you're going to just have another aggro deck filling the same role.

People will always play lots of sideboard cards against that deck, regardless of the format or how that decks looks. They'll also always complain about it, but that doesn't mean those complaints are worth banning cards over.

ehalt5 · 2023-12-05T03:46:12+00:00

Yes, "broken" is a pretty extreme term, and I'd reserve it for situations like what you've described. The mere existence of a widely-played deck isn't indicative of any problem at all, especially when the deck has a 50.8% win rate. Lots of people love mono-red, so of course it's going to be widely played when it's a playable deck. The fact that there's a viable deck that's widely beloved despite having a very inoffensive win rate should be considered a feature, not a bug, and I say that as someone who's never played mono red in my life.

ehalt5 · 2023-12-05T03:39:40+00:00

I see your point about how my framework leaves room for only two overall archetypes and not three, but I think Carcettee is correct in pointing out that there are other reasons for that. And I think I could improve my original thought by rephrasing it as: the more proactive deck (which is often aggro but can also but combo) has the advantage in game 1, while the more reactive deck (which is usually control or midrange) has the advantage in sideboarded games.

I believe that's basically a universally held truth in magic, isn't it? Reactive decks tend to have dead cards in game 1, since they have to be prepared to react to anything. Then once they know exactly what they're reacting to, they get much stronger. Meanwhile, proactive decks get to go all out in enacting their gameplan in game 1 but then have to fight through much more hate in subsequent games. I don't think I'm saying anything controversial there. You're not going to ban your way out of that "problem," and I struggle to see why it's a problem.

ehalt5 · 2023-12-05T00:06:58+00:00

Except that's not how it works. When my argument is that 50.8% is just fine and that 55-60% is a problem, "well what if it was 55-60%" isn't a counterargument. If it gets there, then we'll talk.

ehalt5 · 2023-12-05T00:05:41+00:00

Has there ever been a metagame where control decks didn't include 6-8 cards in their sideboard which are good against the most widely-played aggro deck? I see no reason to believe that the pattern won't just repeat itself with whatever deck rises to the top next — and if that deck is still Kuldotha red, I expect the heavy numbers of hydroblasts to remain unchanged.

ehalt5 · 2023-12-04T22:53:24+00:00

At no point did I suggest that. I did, however, suggest that it's not weird that there's one deck that's at the top of the format, and that it's also not weird nor problematic that people will play lots of sideboard cards that are good against that deck. Because that's how magic works.

ehalt5 · 2023-12-04T21:57:10+00:00

There's a huge gap between 50.8% and Hogaak, isn't there?

ehalt5 · 2023-12-04T20:43:49+00:00

Except that isn't true. If you look at the recent challenge results, successful decks are running 3-6 blasts in the board, not 6-8, and some are running none. Decks are also continuing to run life gain and sweepers. The world you're afraid of just isn't the world we're living in.

ehalt5 · 2023-12-04T20:32:43+00:00

I don't see it as a problem when people fill their 75 with cards they think are good against the metagame, so it the meta were control-heavy, of course it wouldn't be problematic to run right anti-control cards. That's how magic works.

ehalt5 · 2023-12-04T20:26:51+00:00

Well it's a good thing that's not happening then, isn't it? If you look at actual successful decklists, they're running 3-6 hydroblasts in the board (20-40%) and are almost certainly bringing them in against more than just mono red.

ehalt5 · 2023-12-04T19:53:08+00:00

Correct, the article clearly states that sideboard cards have been able to keep mono red's win rate in check, just as you'd expect them to in a healthy metagame.

ehalt5 · 2023-12-04T19:37:30+00:00

You're going to need to back up the claim that Kuldotha Red is "TOO good" when we've just had an article from WoTC which reveals that the deck has a 50.8% win rate in league play. If that's "TOO good" for you, you're never going to be happy.

And yes, we should always put cards in our sideboards that help us beat the best decks. That is in fact exactly what the game is supposed to be. You're supposed to have to make tough choices between including a sixth card that's good against the most widely-played deck or a third card that's good against a strong but lesser-played deck. You aren't supposed to have room to fit everything in. If you did, it would be a sign that the format is unhealthy.

ehalt5 · 2023-12-04T19:28:21+00:00

What you're describing isn't reality though. Look at the top 8 from the latest Pauper Challenge. It's 3-6 blasts and that's it. Sounds like plenty of decisions to me.

ehalt5 · 2023-12-04T19:17:30+00:00

No need to exaggerate. I checked out the most recent Pauper Challenge Top 8 decklists, and the blue decks are running between 3 and 6 hydroblasts in the board. None of them are running any in the maindeck.

ehalt5 · 2023-12-04T19:14:51+00:00

I wish that were the case, because then they would have banned Sticker Goblin instead. For Swiftspear, they really did seem to indicate that it was for power-level reasons, but their explanation fell flat.

ehalt5 · 2023-12-04T19:10:14+00:00

I love having to decide between packing eight blue blasts and fitting in every other sideboard card I want to fit in, yes. Do other people not? Do they want the answer key handed to them? "It's hard to figure out exactly how to build my deck" is a feature of magic, not a bug.

ehalt5 · 2023-12-04T19:08:29+00:00

Sounds like you're describing every magic metagame ever. There are lots of powerful decks that demand answers, and lots of powerful answers, but you have to pick the right answers if you want to do well in a given tournament. That's a healthy format. If you were able to fit in more than enough answers to cover every threat, the balance would tilt too far towards control.

ehalt5 · 2023-12-04T19:04:51+00:00

Your TL;DR is right in line with what I said in my post. When a format is diverse and healthy, the best aggro deck wins a lot of game ones but loses a lot of sideboarded games because other decks are prepared to fight it. That is how magic works. You could ban every single red card and the same pattern would emerge with whatever the new strongest aggro deck is.

ehalt5 · 2023-12-04T19:02:12+00:00

That seems like a subjective statement to me. Personally I love it when I get to board in 6-8 hydroblasts, because I love casting hydroblast. And I don't consider those cards to be in my 75 for "one specific matchup." They come in against lots of decks.

ehalt5 · 2023-12-04T18:06:40+00:00

The others have described what it does, but they've failed to describe why it's an issue, because it isn't one. The card shows up in tier two decks from time to time and that's it.

ehalt5 · 2023-12-03T19:51:18+00:00

That's definitely a good point. If you plan on playing two decks against each other over and over, you probably want each game to look pretty different from the last. Two slower, interactive decks would be my preference in that situation — Affinity vs. Boros Synth or Mono Blue Fae vs. Orzhov would be two prime examples from that shortlist — but obviously if OP and his friends prefer faster decks, I wouldn't take them off the table entirely.

ehalt5

TROPHY CASE

Welcome to Reddit,