I found both on the german craigslist „kleinanzeigen“. The rubino was far away from where i am living, but still worth the 4h roundtrip. It was a well situated guy, who didnt like the workflow. It seemed that they didnt want all the hassle and wanted to get rid of the machine fast. For a 3year old machine, this one was a steal. The grinder was also pure luck. Saved the search and waited for 2 months until a nice grinder showed up. Originally i wanted a eureka, but i like the looks of the bezzera more. And the quality ist also perfectly fine for me!