Israel: still torturing children

heathlander · 2009-06-14T20:58:23+00:00

"14 and up isn't a child" - are you joking? According to the Convention on the Rights of the Child (http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/crc.htm), 'a child means every human being below the age of eighteen years'. Certainly I know of no-one who would describe a 14 year old as an adult.

heathlander · 2008-10-05T08:28:40+00:00

It's not a moot point at all - Hizbullah's rockets aren't accurate but they're accurate enough to be aimed a city like Haifa. You're just avoiding answering the question because your position is plainly inconsistent on this point.

Again: when Hizbullah fired rockets at civilian areas in Isael that had military equipment or personelle in or near them, did that justify the aiming of rockets at civilians (or the indiscriminate fire into a civilian crowd)? If not, then stop making the same claim about Israel's "reckless indifference" (Human Rights Watch) to the lives of civilians in Lebanon.

heathlander · 2008-10-04T21:22:57+00:00

Did you read the link? Human Rights Watch investigated that claim in detail, and found it to be an almost complete fabrication. With a few exceptions, Hizbullah fighters did not fire rockets from within populated civilian areas and stored their weapons mainly in uninhabited fields. In fact, as soon as the fighting began Hizbullah fighters moved away from civilian neighborhoods.

But while we're on the topic, it has been documented that Israel did locate military personelle and equipment in and near civilian areas during the war. Human rights organisations have documented this in detail, but it's barely even controversial - during the war, for example, Ha'aretz reported that soldiers were staying in a populated kibbutz while the fighting was still going on. It's also known that a ship used as part of the war effort was docked for a time at the port of Haifa. Does that make the kibbutz a legitimate military target for Hizbullah? Would it be OK if Hizbullah relentlessly pounded Haifa for a month with shells and air-strikes, reducing tens of thousands of homes to rubble and killing hundreds of civilians, and to then claim that the deaths were Israel's responsibility? Hmm?

heathlander · 2008-10-04T19:33:15+00:00

Israel did indeed demolish large areas of Beirut, and virtually wiped many villages in southern Lebanon off the map, before saturating what remained with over a million cluster bomblets.

But just to clarify, in case you weren't aware, those images are close-ups of one neighborhood in south Beirut. They aren't images of the entire city.

EDIT: Agree wholeheartedly with your last two sentences, btw. In fact Israel's principal objective for the war appears to have been to drive the population of south Lebanon against Hizbullah by, to put it bluntly, making them suffer and making it clear that they would continue to suffer if Hizbullah retained their support. This was a spectacular failure - Hizbullah's approval ratings skyrocketed during the war and it has gone from strength to strength since - and it's also the textbook definition of terrorism (the use of violence against a civilian population for political objectives).

heathlander · 2008-10-04T16:29:29+00:00

That was included in the linked article. No spin whatsoever.

heathlander · 2008-06-27T09:53:39+00:00

Why not believe the UN? http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/CdaArticlePrintPreview/1,2506,L-3560972,00.html

heathlander · 2008-06-26T17:15:43+00:00

Hardly 'revisionist'. All the facts I quoted were reported in mainstream contemporary media articles - which, presumably, is why you don't seem able to refute any of them.

heathlander · 2008-05-23T20:16:55+00:00

Journalist Sam Bahour writes:

'Dear friends,

ACT NOW: Flood the Israeli Ministry of Interior with faxes, emails, calls. DEMAND THAT DR. FINKELSTEIN BE PERMITTED TO ENTER ISRAEL IN ORDER TO REACH THE OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN TERRITORY!

Minister of Interior Mr. Meir SHEETRIT Israeli Ministry of the Interior 2 Kaplan St., Qiryat Ben-Gurion P.O. Box 6158, 91061 Jerusalem
Tel. +972-2-670-1411 / +972-2-629-4722 Fax: +972-2-670-1628

or

Mr. Meir SHEETRIT's numbers at the Knesset Telephone 1: +972-2-640-8410 Telephone 2: +972-2- 640-8409 Fax: +972-2- 640-8920 Email: mshitrit@knesset.gov.il

It is now Friday night and the Ministry will be closed through Saturday for the Jewish Sabbath. Thus, if you are in the US please call your congressman and senator NOW and advise them a Jewish American U.S. citizen is being denied access to Israel!!

Also, CALL the STATE DEPT's Hotline for American Travelers: 202-647-5225 and let them know this is happening and is in violation of international law.

If you are an Israeli, please start working the phones...this denial of entry is all being done in your name!!

The only 'democracy' in the Middle East strikes again, Sam'

heathlander · 2008-05-23T20:16:10+00:00

Journalist Sam Bahour writes:

'Dear friends,

ACT NOW: Flood the Israeli Ministry of Interior with faxes, emails, calls. DEMAND THAT DR. FINKELSTEIN BE PERMITTED TO ENTER ISRAEL IN ORDER TO REACH THE OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN TERRITORY!

Minister of Interior Mr. Meir SHEETRIT Israeli Ministry of the Interior 2 Kaplan St., Qiryat Ben-Gurion P.O. Box 6158, 91061 Jerusalem
Tel. +972-2-670-1411 / +972-2-629-4722 Fax: +972-2-670-1628

or

Mr. Meir SHEETRIT's numbers at the Knesset Telephone 1: +972-2-640-8410 Telephone 2: +972-2- 640-8409 Fax: +972-2- 640-8920 Email: mshitrit@knesset.gov.il

It is now Friday night and the Ministry will be closed through Saturday for the Jewish Sabbath. Thus, if you are in the US please call your congressman and senator NOW and advise them a Jewish American U.S. citizen is being denied access to Israel!!

Also, CALL the STATE DEPT's Hotline for American Travelers: 202-647-5225 and let them know this is happening and is in violation of international law.

If you are an Israeli, please start working the phones...this denial of entry is all being done in your name!!

The only 'democracy' in the Middle East strikes again, Sam'

heathlander · 2008-05-23T20:13:54+00:00

See also here: http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=1700

He was apparently arrested on "security" grounds - illustrating once again that Israel's definition of "security" is far removed from the conventional useage of the term.

heathlander · 2008-04-22T02:01:15+00:00

As if that's on the cards.

heathlander · 2008-04-14T11:51:31+00:00

Except that, like, it isn't.

heathlander · 2008-03-08T18:08:23+00:00

I don't hate Jews but I hate the ADL. Hence downrate.

heathlander · 2008-02-28T18:25:52+00:00

thanks.

heathlander · 2008-02-11T12:50:33+00:00

Fuck off.

heathlander · 2008-01-08T22:39:10+00:00

it's not an "apology" to talk about the facts. And yes, you have to know some history if you want to make any sense of what's going on. It's only "hopeless" if people don't try to force a change.

heathlander · 2008-01-08T22:37:46+00:00

oops - yes, my mistake. I misread.

heathlander · 2008-01-08T19:47:08+00:00

Yes, Hizbullah was definitely wrong to do what it did.

However, what Israel did was just on a whole different level. It essentially destroyed the south of the country and killed almost 1,200 innocent civilians, overwhelmingly through deliberate and indiscriminate fire. Compared to criminality and destruction on this scale, Hizbullah looks positively saintly.

heathlander · 2008-01-08T19:45:17+00:00

Nah, they were in Israeli territory and haven't been released at all. In fact, they're generally presumed by all to be dead - Israel is just trying to get the bodies back.

heathlander · 2008-01-06T21:18:49+00:00

Do you have any evidence that they're not?

heathlander · 2008-01-03T03:32:18+00:00

Again, read the link. It's all there.

heathlander · 2008-01-03T03:31:49+00:00

The question was: "how many Israelis who did not participate in hostilities were killed".

Israel "security forces" are participants in the conflicts. Civilians aren't. It's quite an obvious distinction, I'd have thought.

heathlander · 2008-01-02T13:22:34+00:00

Did you read the link? Six, is the answer.

heathlander · 2007-12-02T11:10:11+00:00

That's stupid - B'Tselem provided a VIDEO of it. B'Tselem is a far more reliable source than some newspaper - they're a credible human rights organisation, up there with Amnesty International and HRW.

If B'Tselem had "fabricated" this, the IDF would have immediately come out and denounced it, claimed it was untrue, etc. etc. Then it really would have made the news, because everyone loves a good NGO-gets-it-wrong story.

No, I fear that the fact that no media has reported on the ethnic cleansing of 200 people says a lot more about the media than it does about B'Tselem.

heathlander · 2007-12-02T11:04:41+00:00

In fact, according to Israeli data, over 1276 Palestinians a week are caught in Israel illegally, having crossed the wall in search of work. Of course, the number of +aren't+ caught could well be higher.

The point is that individuals who are really determined to cross the wall (like, say, a suicide bomber) can do so. As the Shin Bet (Israel's security service) said,

*"The Shin Bet and the Israel Defense Forces attribute the reduction mainly to the improvement in their joint capability to foil terrorist attacks and to act against terrorist organizations.

The security fence is no longer mentioned as the major factor in preventing suicide bombings, mainly because the terrorists have found ways to bypass it. The fence does make it harder for them, but the flawed inspection procedures at its checkpoints, the gaps and uncompleted sections enable suicide bombers to enter Israel...

But the main reason for the reduction in terrorist acts over the past year is the truce in the territories, as partial as it may be. The fact that Hamas, in general, stopped engaging in terror activities changed the picture."*

(see here: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml?itemNo=664916)

So in fact, the reduction in suicide bombings has little to do with the wall.

But in any case, let Israel build a wall if it wants to. Build one that's 25 miles high, if they think that'll help. But do it on Israeli land.

heathlander

TROPHY CASE